A friend thinks we are all headed towards fluid relationships with members of either sex

[whatisokay]

The context is that this friend’s daughter is getting divorced from her husband, and has started a relationship with another woman.

According to my friend, in this day and age of gender fluidity etc (paraphrasing but these were her words), whether men and women have sexual relationships with members of their own or the opposite sex is immaterial. What matters is the quality of the relationship.

When I said that I wasn’t so sure about this, quoting the example that my homosexual friend, much as he might have many friends who are women, is highly unlikely to be attracted to them, my friend said that her theory applies more to heterosexual people.

I tend to think that you are either gay, bisexual or heterosexual and that is your nature. She tends to think that most of us could have same or opposite sex relationships, and it depends purely on who you meet.

I felt like saying that I am pretty sure I don’t want to sleep with another woman, but felt that I couldn’t and that she might accuse me of being “behind the times” . Surely the “times” have nothing to do with it?

I think that some people have very clear and defined sexuality, gay, straight, bisexual etc. Some people are not aware of their preferences until they meet someone that awakens something. Some people experiment and find they like their original choice best and stick with it. There is no one way that people express their sexuality. What I think she may be getting at is that there is more freedom to choose how we express our sexuality now. Many people will still make the same choices as before and some will take the opportunity to enjoy their preferences with relative freedom.

My first thought was no thank you. Then I read your post. I think she's probably right.

I agree. Not sure about the timescale though.

I mean "I agree with your friend".

I think she’s just trying to normalise what her daughter is doing, by convincing herself everyone else is at it too!
The majority of people are pretty definitely either straight or gay. The number of genuine bisexuals is relatively low. Hence the anger and distress of lesbians when told by trans activists that they should accept trans partners with penises who claim to “identify” as lesbians.
As long as relationships are genuinely consenting, then it’s nobody’s business but the couple concerned, who they love or are intimate with. I’d just nod and smile at your friend and not get drawn into a pointless discussion!

I think she’s just trying to normalise what her daughter is doing, by convincing herself everyone else is at it too!

I thought this too.

As long as relationships are genuinely consenting, then it’s nobody’s business but the couple concerned, who they love or are intimate with.. Yes I agree.

Seems a weird thing to speculate about; I'm pretty sure sexual orientation is what it is, but perhaps people are more inclined to experiment 'these days'. I don't think we're in for some kind of evolution of sexual orientation.

I spent a long time trying to be hetero. I find the whole concept of 'you love the person not the sex' extremely dismissive of the harm it caused me to try and be in a relationship
with men. I am gay, that's the end.

I find the image of sexuality as a spectrum helpful. Close to the middle it's fluid, close to the ends, less so. That allows for people who fall in love with the person but sex doesn't matter whilst also acknowledging those of us at either end for whom sex is fundamental to love and attraction.

So straight people will move to fluid, but gay people will not? What's her rational for that bizarre logic? 🤔

I think because for so long there has been prejudice against homosexuality people tried to fit into the straight box if they could whereas as we move to a less homophobic society it's easier for people to be open about their same sex relationships however they label themselves. The labels are really a symptom of homophobia, when I mention my SIL's wife lots of people comment 'oh, she's a lesbian'. But when she had boyfriends when she was younger no-one said 'oh, she's straight'. We have come a long way in the last 50 years and still are carrying the historic baggage.

Personally I agree in that I think more people are bi sexual than they think/ admit but also that there are far more gay people than are out at the moment - but I think it's more of a spectrum that will become more acceptable over time BUT most people are straight .

Why would she need to normalise it though? ...it is normal . I don't know OP, perhaps she is just clumsily describing the fact that 'the times' are changing in respect of acceptance of lgbtq+ issues. I don't think there is a great deal of debate to be had really- some people are fluid with their sexuality others not, some are open some are not, some will explore this more as it becomes something they feel comfortable with so in the future may explore a same sex relationship. Sexuality by and large is on a spectrum, I think was her point.

I think she’s just trying to normalise what her daughter is doing

It is 'normal'.

Well normalise it in that situation - not in general, of course it’s normal.

I guess when people have been in heterosexual marriages for a long time and then start relationships with people of their own sex, it is different from their own past “norm”.

I guess what I objected to was the feeling that I couldn’t vocalise the feeling that I am at the heterosexual end of the spectrum (not that this has any bearing in my life as I am divorced and unlikely to meet anyone else and feel asexual in fact) for fear that she would accuse me of either being in denial, or worse of being somewhat bigoted.

So I felt a little silenced.

I guess when people have been in heterosexual marriages for a long time and then start relationships with people of their own sex, it is different from their own past “norm”.

Or someone going from a homosexual relationship to a heterosexual one.

Hmm. I don't know. On a general level, your friend may be right. And she may not.

On personal level, then she's WAAY wrong. My 'romantic' interest' (for want of a better word) is confined to men, and men only. I have zero interest in any form of intimate relationship with another woman.

I think she’s just trying to normalise what her daughter is doing, by convincing herself everyone else is at it too!

This.

My homosexual best friend wouldn’t touch a woman with a barge pole.

I have had relations with a couple of women when I was much younger and it really wasn’t for me at all. Most people I know have tried something at a point with the same sex but ultimately decided it was not for them.

Heterosexuality is nothing to be ashamed of and I don’t think everyone is ‘slightly homosexual’ at all. Some people are 100% straight/gay and others are more fluid. Nothing wrong with either.

I think there is a continuum, and some people are totally homo or hetero sexual, and others are more liable to be bi to a greater or lesser extent.

I bloody wish I could bear the idea of sexual activity with a woman, because I much prefer them as people. But sadly I'm 100 per cent hetero.

Maybe for some.
I already know I'm hetero/asexual

Are they Guardian readers?

I think it's more likely to just stop mattering. Like no one will care if you are sexually fluid or fixed so it might seem that there are more people who lean towards sexual fluidity because the stigma will have been removed

"I tend to think that you are either gay, bisexual or heterosexual and that is your nature."

This is a very rigid view of sexuality that isn't that well borne out by the empirical evidence. The way that people identify and their actual practice, over a lifetime, are often very different. Experimentation across boundaries of gender/sexuality may be a bit more common than you think, and may indeed have been so for quite some time!!

This is a very rigid view of sexuality - yes maybe. Not sure I really hold such a rigid view, I was more trying to explain the differences in my position to that of my friend. If I rephrase, it’s not that I don’t think people experiment, I just didn’t like her, by implication, telling me things about my own sexuality which are not true. And making it sound as if sexuality is a cultural construct. But maybe it is more than I realise / have thought about.

People are making very interesting points on this thread so thank you - in particular IMO @joyfullittlehippo.

Nah while people like us still rom the planet it wont but this will die out just like how UK was a nation that was solid. And that's how we won the war (2) but these days we would have lost against hitler 100%

We are not the same and yes relationship will be like water flowing all over the place and never settling, blended families being the norm, and the children being unable to even understand male and female. I reckon the first person who said they were gender neutral was either laughed at or phyche tested, lol. But yes less and less proper marriages with legit 100% kids no steps etc. So that is now sadly the norm and will continue to be so. Shame really.