A friend thinks we are all headed towards fluid relationships with members of either sex

[whatisokay]

The context is that this friend’s daughter is getting divorced from her husband, and has started a relationship with another woman.

According to my friend, in this day and age of gender fluidity etc (paraphrasing but these were her words), whether men and women have sexual relationships with members of their own or the opposite sex is immaterial. What matters is the quality of the relationship.

When I said that I wasn’t so sure about this, quoting the example that my homosexual friend, much as he might have many friends who are women, is highly unlikely to be attracted to them, my friend said that her theory applies more to heterosexual people.

I tend to think that you are either gay, bisexual or heterosexual and that is your nature. She tends to think that most of us could have same or opposite sex relationships, and it depends purely on who you meet.

I felt like saying that I am pretty sure I don’t want to sleep with another woman, but felt that I couldn’t and that she might accuse me of being “behind the times” . Surely the “times” have nothing to do with it?

I am not an expert, but I suspect that the truth about sexuality is that it's a bit of nature and a bit of nurture. If it were all nurture/cultural then why on earth would anyone have 'chosen' to be gay during repressive times?? If it were all fixedly natural, however, we wouldn't perhaps see the fluidity with opportunity that we often witness. I think the main thing, on which I am sure we all agree, is that we foster a culture that is tolerant - the friend is right here that what matters, at the end of the day, is that people are free to pursue the type of consensual relationship that makes them happy and fulfilled.

I agree that sexuality is a continuum, with those at the ends far less likely to be fluid than those in the middle. When I was much younger (barely out of teens) I fell in love with another woman quite a lot older than me. It was very intense, but didn't last very long, with Tania leaving me for a woman more her age as she thought me immature. I probably was but I was still hurt and bereft.
It took me a few years before I could love again and married the man, but that ended in divorce. I then found my current DP and we've been happily together for nearly 20 years with two children.
I assume I'm further away from the ends of the continuum than some other posters on this thread, and thats ok: we should all accept each others 'preferences'. I don't think we're becoming more fluid, just that it is more socially acceptable.
The only downside to it that I can see is the evolutionary impact: the end of our species if we all end up loving our own sex.

I think that we are moving into an era where more people will acknowledge themselves to be gay or bisexual because there is less 'compulsory heteronormativity' - we see normal gay relationships on tv and films much more now, and there is less stigma (although still far too much).

I think a greater percentage of the population are / would be gay than present statistics suggest if there was no oppression or discrimination faced by people who aren't straight.

But I don't think that means one day there will be total fluidity where everyone could be attracted to all genders. Some people will always be straight, some people will always be gay. That's fine too! As long as people aren't closeted by fear.

Probably a good thing if we don't all breed at the moment, and for the planet if there are fewer of us. There will always be people who want to.

I don't know about "all". I can see women are beautiful but have never felt like getting intimate with a woman, and can't imagine I ever would. I like manly men's bodies and physical characteristics. Men's legs, men's bottoms. Lovely strong arms. A strong jaw with a bit of stubble.

I think you both have a point. In the recent past, humans have tended to be either straight or gay, with fewer bi people. I agree with your friend that is changing and there will be a higher percentage of bi people going forwards (totally agree with the posters who say that sexuality is a spectrum - I'm using these three options for convenience) but I think there will still be a lot of straight and gay people.

When your friend said that her theory applies more to heterosexual people I think she revealed the weakness in her argument! Why on earth should it?!

The number of genuine bisexuals is relatively low.

Also not sure about this. For one thing, the phrase 'genuine bisexuals' gives me the fear because it's a very common trope of biphobia to claim that bisexuality isn't genuine / is attention seeking / etc., and for another I think there are a lot of bisexuals who are in relationships with someone of the opposite gender (either by choice or because that's who they happened to fall for) and who never 'come out' because they don't want to face the hassle and possible discrimination that could cause. I think if you take closeted bisexuals into account, the number wouldn't be that low.

I can only speak for myself in that I've never been sexually or emotionally attracted to a woman, despite my friendships with women being extremely close. It isn't anything that I've ever considered. I'm nearly 50 and have gay and bisexual friends.

Just means being attracted to a person rather than their genitals. As long as everyone is happy, crack on.

Historical comparisons certainly seem to suggest that it's a spectrum and that while some people are strongly homosexual or strongly heterosexual, there is a very large middle section which could go either way. In a society that encourages bisexuality (e.g. Classical Athens) these will be bisexual (within existing cultural norms), in a society which frowns on it they will present as heterosexual. Presumably that is what your friend meant by her theory applying mainly to heterosexual people: until very, very recently (and in fact, in many circles now) coming out as homosexual was so stigmatised that you could be pretty sure that nobody would do that unless they really had no option- whereas people who had an option would be more likely to try to be perceived as heterosexual.

Some of us are lesbians, get over it!

I think the chances are that it will become as about as remarkable as eating shepherds pie - there won’t be the investment socially in tearing people down, calling them queer or bastards etc. And if you do, society will ostracise you.

Which is a good thing. I suspect very religious people are going to struggle in a country where the majority don’t find it a concern, but that’s the way the UK is going.

Ask your friend how likely she is to form a sexual attraction to another woman? She is minimising/normalising same sex attraction.

It is still a big deal coming out as gay lesbian or bisexual. More difficult often than straight people would realise.

Just means being attracted to a person rather than their genitals. As long as everyone is happy, crack on Sexual attraction involves biology.

Interesting thread! Because OP, you're posing an intriguing question but I sense that the real post is about not feeling you can Express yourself to this friend.

I'd be questioning the friendship.

Ask your friend how likely she is to form a sexual attraction to another woman? She is minimising/normalising same sex attraction.

Any problem with that? Worked for ancient societies.

It is still a big deal coming out as gay lesbian or bisexual. More difficult often than straight people would realise.

But this is because of current societal norms. Societal norms can change. Wasn't a big deal in Classical Greece, where it was just assumed that same-sex attraction was a common and normal thing. Lesbian attraction wasn't a big deal in 19th century/20th century Europe either, as female sexuality simply wasn't talked about in the same terms as male.

I have no idea in the grand scheme if things as every one is an individual.

What I will say in the context of your OP is that I gave literally lost count over the last 10 years or so of women I know who have always been straight, ended a marriage and their first subsequent relationship is with another woman.

It is not at all unusual. All but one of them are now either single or back in relationships with men.

I think there is a spectrum of sexuality & everyone will fall somewhere between totally straight and gay and everywhere in between. I’ve got at least three friends who have had relationships with both men and women - totally normal of course, I personally only find men attractive sexually & know I couldn’t/wouldn’t have a sexual relationship with a woman (nor would I have one with my male friends). You can’t be comfortable with only one type of sexuality (as she says she is with fluid) and judge another & if she is saying straight people don’t exist then she’s the prejudiced one!

I also think we are born whichever way we are & thankfully live in a society in the UK which is accepting, or at least becoming more so, of that fact. Perhaps her wish to be tolerant is actually manifested as an unintentional intolerance- worth a discussion if it bothers you, perhaps she needs a bit of perspective?

I don't hear anyone speaking for themselves here. I am speaking as an out lesbian.