Is it possible for someone to "check back in" after checking out?

[Unpoquitititoloco]

DH is very emotionally distant from me at the moment and not happy with home life. Gets easily agitated with the DC and also with me. Any question is seen as "nagging". He's had to deal with a lot from me over the past few years (I have written another thread about this somewhere) as I suffered quite badly with PND and he also had a loss in his family which hit him hard.

When pushed a few weeks ago he told me he wasn't happy. That he doesn't love me in the same way that he used to and that he dreads weekends etc as it's always so stressful. Two young kids means that we are just entertaining them and conversation is hard because they're constantly interrupting/demanding attention. He says we're like two housemates who just function day to day.

Since then he has withdrawn all affection. Since the birth of our second sex life has been pretty much non existent anyway mainly due to my PND. But cuddles and affection and pet names etc have always been there. This has stopped completely. Even down to he won't put an x on the end of a text message (I know that's silly but you notice these things don't you!).

He says when I cuddle him he feels "anxious" he says he's struggling to come to terms with the last few years of my mental ill health and worries that it will always be the same. I know I've not been the best wife. My energy has gone into seeing the children are not effected in anyway by my low moods /anxiety and I guess I neglected DH in many ways. He too was grieving he sudden and unexpected loss of his older brother who he was very close to and I tried to be an emotional support but I was probably crap and also I leaned on him a lot too which I probably shouldn't have done at this time. I often cried saying I needed help and I needed him to help me get help as I felt "stuck" somehow and unable to move but he would often get exasperated and tell me off. I TOTALLY understand why. He was dealing with his own stuff.

But now he's looking back on everything and explaining how he can't get past it. There's many things in our relationship that I've forgiven of him. But he seems to be unable to forgive me for when I haven't been perfect.

The last couple of months have seen me feeling much much better and I plan on having no more children as I clearly am prone to mental ill health/chemical imbalance etc etc. I would not put us through that again and just want to move forward now and bring our children up together happily. When I talk about improving our relationship (spending time together, spending time apart with friends, hobbies, exercise, communication) I'm just met with "but all this shit happened in past and I can't get over it". There's been no effort to though.

He's just not himself at all. He snaps at the children and regularly has little outbursts such as "no one listens to me in this family" or "everyone in this family just gets their own way, they go on and on at me until I have to give in". Apparently that's my fault. That's what I do and now the kids do it. But kids do that and need to be shown not to. And I admit I possibly do that sometimes because I haven't received an answer and something needs sorting. Yesterday for example I said to him "what do you think we should do about X" he said "I don't know". I left it until later that day and gently asked again. I was told I was nagging and putting pressure on him! It was something that needed sorting though!!

AnwAy I've clearly gone off on a major tangent. DH has started seeing a therapist recently as he seems depressed (although will often tell me he's not because he's happy at work) and are also going to go to relate. I'm scared he's doing it as a box ticking exercise so he doesn't look like the bad guy if he leaves. But what I guess I'm asking in a very very long and convoluted way is Is it at all possibly that I can get him back the way he was before? With work on our relationship and time and effort? Has this sort of thing ever been fixed for anyone?

I'm not insinuating you have changed the story although I do find it odd to exclude any mention of conflict resolution in this thread and give the impression that there has been no joint counselling.

What I am saying is that you are posting a lot and generally that tends to happen because someone is desperately hoping for the magic answer they want to hear, rather than necessarily taking on board the advice they are being given (especially when it's the same advice many times over). And sometimes, yes, an OP does need it pointing out that they have got into a repeated rut because they are looking for one answer, and that one answer won't ever be found online, only in real life and that sometimes you can spend loads of time talking about it online and not with the only person who can provide the answer.

Leaving out something fairly potentially relevant on one thread may mean people give different advice from what they might if they knew that fact you've given elsewhere. It's not about catching you out but making sure advice fits with the facts. Especially if you're desperate to hear that magic answer.

On threads about depression - usually when it's about a man with depression - the adage "depression is no excuse to treat someone badly" gets trotted out, although I have rarely seen that stated about a woman with PND. Whether it is "normal" depression or PND, it is very often the illness talking and not the person, and the same amount of leeway should be given to a man with depression as a woman with PND.

You're going for couples counselling, initiated by your DH. Most of us would see that as a positive sign, even though there are no guarantees it will end in the happy ending you want. Yet you are doubting him and considering it may be a "box ticking exercise".

You suggested a list of things he could do to help himself and say you hope he really works at this so you can get back where you were. Aren't you really going to wok at this too?

I'm not entirely sure why you're shocked he's responded this way.

Living with someone who has/had mental health issues is hard. And I mean seriously hard, especially when it's someone you love. They endure a lot from the unwell person and see changes and eventually, inevitably, they will view that person differently. It's very hard to come back from. PND is bad, I know that because I've had it and I've had Post Partum Psychosis. Having a baby is a big change for everyone, particularly men. So when the mother becomes ill, it's even more frightening for the father because essentially they lose that support that they'd usually have from their partner in that time of change.

Yes, it is more than likely that he is now depressed. Living with someone who has MH issues is like a bomb effect, and it spreads like poison. It is possible that he's "seems ok at work" because that is his currently escape and only outlet.

It'll also be particularly hard for him to have you essentially being well and then questioning everything and not understanding why this is happening, given how you've been before when you're unwell.

You need to give him space to breathe and come to an understanding of why he feels like this himself. Men go into their caves when they need to process stuff and they have to do it alone. If you intervene too much, he will shut down even further.

It is very likely that he won't "check back in" and you have to prepare yourself mentally for that, because in the event of a split that could be a major trigger for your own MH.

Your focus needs to be on preparing yourself for that outcome and making sure you are as stable as possible for your children if/when that occurs.

I'm not saying any of this as a dig at you. I'm purely saying it from experience.

I think you are downplaying the fact that he has suffered a major bereavement.

It is a huge thing and he is probably not ‘himself’ in any sense of the word.

It took me at least two years to feel even slightly ‘normal’ and my judgement was very skewed during that time.

Totally agree maybedoctor

How long ago did he lose his brother op?

You suggested a list of things he could do to help himself and say you hope he really works at this so you can get back where you were. Aren't you really going to work at this too?

Totally agree with this. What are you doing to really work at this?

Mind you, what does "back where you were" mean? You can't go back - you now have kids. The grenade went off. Life isn't the same once you've had kids.

How old are the kids, btw?

DH's brother died suddenly? Say no more. Here's your answer, right there, OP. When did this happen?

From where I sit, you both sound beyond strung out and depressed. Looking within your 4 walls and away from the bereavement, as much as we love our children, the early years can be soul destroyingly tough on a marriage. I think people who've had high-needs/demanding babies/small children will understand better than those who haven't. It's NOBODY'S fault.
You've had PND. He is clearly struggling with depression. This is incredibly common among people raising small children in households where sleep is slim and demands are high. Add a family death to the mix and you've got a recipe for a perfect storm in a marriage. You have a nearly 5-year-old who is still having meltdowns. Been there, done that, had the suicidal PND. I've got that t-shirt, OP. Seriously, I feel for you both. You're in the trenches.
I think it's totally encouraging that your DH has initiated counselling. That is a big deal. You worry that it's box-ticking. Well, he's gone and done it. Hang onto that. That's a good thing. Take that for what it is and don't over-analyze the fact that he's booked Relate.
Tell us about your kids and their ages. What are the challenges you're facing with their behaviour? How is sleep in your household? That's a key factor right there.
Do you have things like forest school or any sort of day camps you can put the 5-year-old in during the summer holidays (usually there are local outdoor camp type activities from like 10am-3pm), just for like a day or two so you can actually just finish a partial sentence and hear yourselves think for 30 seconds?
You really are in the trenches, both of you, and the sooner you can actually just turn to each other and say, "Fuck, life is hard," the better. We look to bonding with our other halves over the good stuff. Sometimes you've got to bond over the really hard stuff. Maybe that's what you need to do here. Bond over the grief of your DH's loss , bond over how utterly hard raising kids can be. Unite over the unexpected the less fun/rosy aspect of day to day life. Hopefully, the counselling will help you guys to reach out and take each other by the hand.
When we're depressed, we feel guilty, less-than (in every aspect of our lives). Be ok with being less-than. It is ok and totally normal to be running on low battery. Raising kids is draining.

Marriage is not all great sex, rainbows, date nights, and adorable things the kids say. It's great when it is. But real life presents big shit and we often don't have the coping skills or enough sleep to deal with life when it gives us things like a brother dying, for example.

If you're both decent, really nice, kind people, you'll be ok. I firmly believe that. Who you both are, deep down, as people, predicts your outcome.

@ShatnersWig there's been no joint counselling yet. I will have to look back at the thread to see what I wrote but I was probably just referring to general conflict resolution between us. Ie he's not great at it.

Thanks the replies. I am taking all on board and not just hoping for that one "right" answer. I am doing A LOT in terms of helping our relationship at the moment. I'm working really really hard on myself and the marriage

The issue is how much longer can you put up with this? It is not good for your children, they most likely may be acting out more as they feel the tension between their parents.

It sounds to me like he has fallen out of love with you. He wants to get away but does not want to be seen as 'the bad guy'

If your marriage has been suffering for the past few years, is it really a suprise it is coming to a head?

@ShatnersWig
This is the bit you mean

However, in conflict resolution I can't remember a time when he's ever said "yes I understand your opinion and I'm sorry you felt like that etc etc"

I was just referring to resolving conflicts between us. Not at counselling sessions.

Also in case you noticed I wrote on another thread DM had died which I think was a typo (it was DB) but it may have been me changing a detail so not to be identifiable. Can't remember.

Why would he consider leaving and starting again? Cos if you don't love someone you don't love someone and its really bloody hard to muster the energy in you to try to love someone.

There's threads on here all the time about people who imagine feeling free of a loveless relationship, of feeling happy. I am trying to love again and I know it will take a very long time, and I don't feel confident that I will get there, and I'm worried I'm wasting my life and his and dragging out the inevitable. But I want to try.

He has to want to try. The only one who can help you find answers is him. And you have to be prepared to hear the worst. And then try and have some space to process what each other says. Time apart if you can. Then come back together.

It sounds brutal, you obviously want him, and whilst I am not saying you ever intended to push him away for a minute, you may have done in a very, his feelings may have changed beyond repair and he may sadly be done.

My DH also suggested I was depressed. I wasnt. I was happy anywhere but home. Because home was the problem. But the fact I didn't have the courage to do what I needed to nearly lead me to depression.

OP I hadn't seen the typo about DM/DB, purely that sentence about conflict resolution which came over to me as very formal, which is why I assumed it meant an actual series of therapy sessions concerning conflict resolution. It's really unusual for laypeople to use that terminology; they'd normally say "after an argument...."

@ShatnersWig I'm not a lay person as such

You're a counsellor/psychologist yourself??

You list some very valid reasons why he has fallen out of love here... eg: his brother dies & you make it about your issues &Lack of intimate sexual relations ongoing for some time.

Yet you seem to be in a state of shock & disbelief that someone would dare want to leave their wife & kids to start again, like your tone is “what would be the point of that, how difficult”

You seem to lack empathy for your husband’s emotions. Even having PND is really no excuse to prioritise your mental illness after someone’s bereavement. You weren’t psychotic presumably so do have the cognitive understanding of how poorly that must have been perceived by him....like you don’t care how sad he was or were nice to him when his brother died. Sometimes things like this can make people just stop loving a person, switch off...

The point is when you are not in love you don’t want to be with that person anymore, but sometimes people hang on to prove they did try, or maybe they feel guilty to break up the family & think they can push their own need for happiness aside. Usually that’s when you see things like emotional affairs happen, people in unhappy relationships then romanticise leaving them for a new partner etc... When you ask him where he wants to be in 5 years he does not mention you, just himself wanting to be happy

I honestly think you are dragging out the inevitable.

@MamImHere also was diagnosed with bipolar (type 2) glad to hear you are out of your depression now

Unpoquitititoloco, it's OK to be pro working on the marriage and all but ultimately you can only decide this for yourself. The way you talk about it here leaves a feeling that you are very prescriptive about what should happen next. I don't think you're fully taking into account, or even acknowledging, your partner's feelings.

You seem quite defiant, especially when PPs have mentioned separating amicably. You can’t stamp your foot and refuse to divorce, if he feels differently.

Your husband may be using Relate as a box-ticking exercise as you say, or as a way of demonstrating that the marriage is moribund and helping you come to terms with the inevitable. I think that for your own sake, you need to prepare mentally and practically for separation. Good luck.

Sorry OP, it could be depression related to grief but only going by what he said (in your posts), he wants out and feels guilty because of his responsibilities to the family and breaking your heart. The fact he is looking at how others have successfully rebuild their lives would tell me, he is already there in his head rather than resurrecting the marriage. It’s not personal, he might just have fallen out of love and just can’t force his feelings.

The good thing is that he seems to try and explore all avenues (or tick all boxes as you put it) to make sure this is what he really wants.

My advice would be to give him heaps of space to work it all out and in the meantime prepare yourself to accept his decision. Good luck

You seem to lack empathy for your husband’s emotions. Even having PND is really no excuse to prioritise your mental illness after someone’s bereavement. You weren’t psychotic presumably so do have the cognitive understanding of how poorly that must have been perceived by him....like you don’t care how sad he was or were nice to him when his brother died. Sometimes things like this can make people just stop loving a person, switch off...

I was incredibly supportive when his brother died and provided as much emotional support as I could. But I did after that all suffer PND/anxiety. Probably triggered in part by the shocking event that took place. I never prioritised my feelings over his. I don't think he could have perceived how I treated him poorly.

Sadly this event has meant that he's been unable to give me emotional support and I've often been shouted at and told to snap out of it by him. I've been empathetic in that he's been dealing with his own stuff and fully understand why. I definitely spend time worrying about him and seeing things from his perspective. I don't think that happens the other way round. I've been shouted at and called names by him when I'm feeling at my absolute lowest. When I've been completely rooted and unable to move. Ive been called a fucking idiot and a control freak. I've been told to call my parents to get them to help me. When all I've wanted is my husband. But I forgive that, I understand that. Because he was struggling too.

@ShatnersWig no but in the type of role where I need to use terms like that

You seem quite defiant, especially when PPs have mentioned separating amicably. You can’t stamp your foot and refuse to divorce, if he feels differently.

Determined to make my marriage work yes. I can't force him into ANYTHING! But I've asked him outright several times what he's going to do and I'm always met with "I don't know!" I'm in limbo! He is his own person and can do what he likes. But I really hope I get a proper answer one way or the other after he's given it some time to realise that family life is on the up.

He says ‘I don’t know’ because he feels bad and guilty to say he wants out. If he wanted to fix it, he would tell you that. That’s only my opinion. Maybe guys on here could offer a ‘male’s point of view’ though of course not all men react the same etc.

In my experience, if he doesn’t answer and you keep on asking, you are pushing him away. I hope for you and your family that I’m wrong but that’s how I read his behaviour.