Seeking a female viewpoint...

[thebrainygoldfish]

Good afternoon,

I'm interested in your views on my situation as I am having some trouble wrapping my head around what going on.
I'm going to paraphrase quite abit but the total time line is about a year and a half, but the accusation happened back in March.

-¦-

So my long time girlfriend and I split up.

In the following months I became really close to her best friend. The feelings were mutual and we connected like nothing I have ever experienced, she is really special.
Tried to keep it quiet but my ex found out.
Ex meets new man (nice guy!), now engaged.
Her mate and I continue to get close - its a slow dance and I respect her wanting to take it at a crawl.
Next thing I know I was accused of raping my ex whilst we where in our reationship. It is completely untrue, an out and out lie - This woman was my world for 9 years!
Of course she told her best mate, who instantly killed any chance of our friendship going anywhere - despite applied logic pulling her accusation apart.
I lost my entire friendship circle (of which she is still part)
It has destroyed me emotionally and caused me to contemplate suicide and try once.

Although they have never said directly to me I am told my 'friends' have since questioned the accusation as even the police aren't interested. (aparently she went to see them)

Fast forward to now and whilst I occasioanlly see my friends, I still am unable to socialise with them, stuff happens where I once would have been invited but now not.
The woman I had feelings for I see reguarly and we talk I'd say we are 'ok', and my feelings for her are still there.
I am told (not by her i might add) that we will never be anything more than we are because of the rape accusation - despite pretty much everyone else knowing me knows its a lie, know I am not programmed like that.
'Old fashioned in a 35 year olds body' I was once told - I see it I was dragged up properly (holding doors open, being polite, no drugs, no cheating, flowers on a first date kinda guy)

So my question is why? why would she believe it when others don't? This woman is supposed to know me better than anyone, she's seen me fat, thin, happy, sad, angry, drunk & sober and yet.....
What should I do to try and fix our friendship if nothing else? Is there anything I could try?
Also what would any singletions think if a guy told you, pretty early on that hes been accused of rape? (Im suspecting run a mile)

I am waiting on a appointment to see a counsellor to try and rebuild me emotionally as I am really struggling, having been a quick twitted pretty intelligent, pretty funny guy with all the confidence in the world and the ability to talk to women, I am now a overthinking husk, bearly hanging onto which way is up.

Thanks

I'm sorry but again, if all,your friends know it's a lie as you state, then why did they all turn against you as you describe? This makes no sense,

If they knew it was a lie, they would support you. They didn't. Neither did this woman. It is not logical.

Turning against you. Excluding uou. Would indicate your friends felt it was true.

Your ex's mate doesn't need to believe it 100% to not want a relationship with you. She only needs 1% doubt to never, ever want a relationship with you.

Also, you say that despite the amazing connection she only wanted to take the relationship at a crawl? And this was before the allegation came to light? I suspect she is just not that into you. Give up on her completely, because persisting in trying to get her attention after it's been made clear she's not interested will look very bad next to the allegation. (and also because that's what she wants)

The 'she's a kickboxer so no one could ever rape her' is awful, btw, stop saying that to people. If anything, it weakens your argument.

Maybe she doubts the accusation but has anyway realised it's a bad idea to be involved with you for her friend's sake and is just washing her hands of all of it.

Thanks for the reply’s, they confirm my own fears on how women would judge a man on such a allegation no matter how false and how difficult it is for men to prove their innocence against such a claim.

I do understand women need to protect themselves and I wholeheartedly agree.

And am not ignoring the fact there are monsters in this world, all of whom should be locked away.

I do take offence at being classed as manipulative or somehow controlling however. They have made their decision and I am respecting that, I have very little to do with them now.

Also there seems to be a general theme that I want to still date her mate? No no. Not at all. She was a great friend. Yes the feelings for her are still there but they are just that and not something to be acted on and they will fade with time.

Finally I know I didn’t attack her. I know I never pressured her into anything. I know I am totally innocent.
But I also cannot easily prove it.
Neither can she but that’s the world we live in, a women doesn’t need proof or make a claim like that, but the

Rape isn't always being held down and forced to have sex. Women are sometimes put into positions where they aren't allowed to say no to sex, which is what your ex could have been talking about.
I think you need to move on with your life, find a new group of friends, and don't stay in contact with any of them.

devastation it does to someone, is unimaginable and of course totally unfair.

Anyways. Once again thank you for your reply’s it has been rough but fully expected.
And thanks for your honesty.

I think the reason women believe other women in cases like yours, is because it happens all the time. And until a few years ago it was what happened in a lot of relationships, and was considered ok, because if you said no you were a tease, and it was your fault for putting yourself in that situation. I know because this has happened to me a few times. Now we are a bit older and wiser, women have said enough if I say no and you persist it's rape.
Can you imagine being driven to a secluded spot and if you didn't have sex you knew you would have several hours walk home ahead of you?
Having experienced this, I would always believe a friend, and be there for them.
We aren't evil, or out to get you, we are just not putting up with it anymore.

If the woman you like decides to start a relationship with you she is telling her friend (your ex) that she doesn’t believe the rape accusation.
Seems like that would spell the end of her friendships just like yours.

She has seen your friendship circle take a step back from you and she doesn’t want the same.
Even if everyone seems to forget about it in the future just making that step Towards you will reignite all the old rumours.

Women do Lie about this kind of stuff which is disgusting.
I wouldn’t tell anyone early on in a relationship too much info on this.
Maybe touch on the subject of an
ex spreading malicious rumours and lies.
I would advise you to stay away from all the people that took a step back from you. It shows that it wasn’t an obvious lie to them.

but that’s the world we live in, a women doesn’t need proof or make a claim like that, but the devastation it does to someone, is unimaginable and of course totally unfair.

Careful, that Nice Guy cloak is slipping.

It's not the world we live in OP it's the world men created.

Every day men get away with rape because women cant prove consent wasnt given. What was she wearing? Did she seem up for it? Did she say yes the day before? How many Ex partners she's had? All stuff used against women. So that's why majority of the time women believe other women.

That's not me doubting that innocent men are accused BTW, false allegations are awful and can ruin peoples lives. I'm just trying to explain why if my good friend came to me and said she was raped, I would believe her, unless proven she's lying, not the other way round she'd have enough doubters already.

Women typically receive harsher sentences for false accusations than men who commit rape. The current stat for sexual assaults that either end up as a charge or prosecution is currently 1.5% but sure, carry on stating that it's the men that are the victims.

Also, to the person who stated that they don't believe rape accusations especially when a couple stay together. Are you really that naive? Do you think it is so easy to leave? It's also worth remembering that rape in marriage was only illegal from 1991 in the UK.

Now obviously we have no way of knowing what actually happened, but something you may want to take on board is that, when considering whether consent has been given, anything less than an enthusiastic yes, is a no. So in your words Finally I know I didn’t attack her. I know I never pressured her into anything, suggests that in your mind rape is the result of an attack or prolonged persuasion. It isn't, if she starts off consenting and then at any point changes her mind and says 'no', or 'stop', if you carry on, then that's rape. As i say, i don't know what happened that day, but you only have to read on these boards how often a woman will question whether she was raped in a certain situation to realise that rape is not a crime always committed with overt violence, like an 'attack'. It is all down to consent.

was more interested in why would some women think like that whilst others don't Because women are individuals with unique experiences that shape their view and understanding of the space they occupy. Women are not a collective unit.

Careful, that Nice Guy cloak is slipping @Croquembou Ding, ding we have a winner! Exactly what I was thinking.

If my best friend (or any of my close female friends) told me that their current or ex partner had raped them I would believe them (and I did believe a good friend when her apparently lovely steady chivalrous husband, that we all liked, turned into a very, very nasty alcoholic who treated her and their child abominably).

When I was single, meeting someone in your position where I didn't know the ex....hmm. I might run a mile; I might hang around but I would be very careful. Given that men raping is more common than women lying about it, and most rapists are known to the victim, statisically I would be wary. Basically, I'd view you as Schrodinger's Rapist (google it). I would also consider worst case scenarios:
Run a mile- could have missed fab relationship and happy ever after with lovely man who is not a rapist
Say yes to the dress- end up getting raped and/or murdered (yes that does flicker through our minds) by man who turns out to be not lovely.

I wouldn't be swayed by "she was a kickboxer"...in fact you saying that would put me off. I used to do judo, rugby and women's sportsfighting at various stages in my life, and my husband or any of my exs could have quite easily raped me if they had chosen to do so. I'd be instantly imagining myself failing to fight you off, if you said that.

Applied logic wouldn't wash with me that much- I know the timesheet evidence is dear to you and would be useful in court, but it would only be a very small factor in me deciding whether I would be safe with you or not. Ditto the fact that the accusation was not immediate- loads and loads and loads of women only speak up months or years later, or never. You can mention both of those things but neither would convince me much.

As for the Mr Nice Guy stuff, holding doors and so on- ach well that's lovely but doesn't really change things. Even Ted Bundy was a lovely polite chap.

I'd just be hyperaware of the usual things I would look out for at the start of a relationship, eg your response to being disagreed with or told no to something, and how much you drank.

Oh forgot about it being her parents house. I suppose you can mention the location but don't go on about it. Were there middle class girls downstairs?

Good luck with the counselling by the way, I think it could be very useful. It must be shit having your reputation shredded and not be able to prove a negative- such is the nature of rape claims- whether any rape did or didn't happen or was some sort of middling fudge is almost always going to be he said/she said with no witnesses.

I would believe my best friend without a second thought. The fact she brings it up months later, I would see that as her trying to put it behind but knowing I am now interested in her ex, she feels she has to warn me before it happens to me too.

I couldn’t agree more with @power above. Saying applied logic dictates that she is a kickboxer and so I couldn’t have forced her sends chills down my spine.

Tbh I fail to see the point of the post altogether. Of course, no woman in her right mind would take the risk. You are saying you are not trying to make the best friend change her mind about you and that the police is not taking matters further. In that case, if the allegations are completely unfonded, just cut all these people off and move on?

And because one day one woman completely fabricated a story, we all have to suffer fear and shame of speaking up because we know that false allegation story will be thrown back in our faces.

Nothing personal to you but I do see a lot of red flags in the way you are approaching / presenting things and like the best friend did, I would have backed off too.

I’ve already said my bit on here but feel it’s worth coming back.

I have been accused of things I haven’t done a few times in my life. I have also had things done to me that certain people I invested that knowledge in, chose not to believe me.

So I’ve been on both sides of the coin. Trust is an act of faith. Trust with hard facts is an act of logic. As there are no hard facts in your case, there is no trust with logic to the people who once claimed to love you or be your friends.

Some people will believe you, some will not. That’s people. You will never really know someone, not totally. You will get a good glimpse of them and be able to trust to a certain extent, but people are variables, they are such and such a type of person for so many years and then they go do something that says differently. If you’ve read any of the adultery posts on forums such as this, you will see that there are countless women saying they have been married for x amount of years and have children and their once faithful partner of x amount of years has suddenly run off with someone else or been caught engaging with someone else. All these women believed they could trust their partner and did, only to have the rug pulled from under them. And that’s what’s happened to you but in a different way.

The vast majority of these women all move on from have having their trust broken, it takes them different quantities of time to do so, but the majority do. And you will too. Yes it’s a different set of circumstances but the breaking of trust is not.

Start afresh, you have one life, so make it count.

Do not worry about this girl or the others, they’ve made their decisions and so, you must make yours.

If it’s of any help, understand that when a person accuses you of doing something you have not, it is not because you are a ‘bad’ person. It’s because they are a deeply unhappy person.

So choose to be happy and do whatever it takes to be happy. Sometimes, breaking up with the past is the only way to do this, you can always return to it when you feel more emotionally equipped. Nothing is forever and everything is temporary.

Good luck

*but that’s the world we live in, a women doesn’t need proof or make a claim like that, but the devastation it does to someone, is unimaginable and of course totally unfair.

Careful, that Nice Guy cloak is slipping.*

It really is. That is so not the world we live in at all. The vast majority of women who are raped or assaulted (often by a partner they had previously consented to or consented to something with) never say anything, because even when they do have considerable evidence there will still be an enormous amount of people who think she is a lying, life-ruining slut. In one recent case the guy had actually admitted in a text message to the victim that he raped her and the judge still didn't convict him of rape because the act wasn't deemed sufficiently violent.

And agreed, the fact that you think that anything else but an "attack" or her trying to fight you off couldn't have been rape is a little worrying.

Have you ever actually tried asking her what it is she feels you did that constituted a violation? That may sound like an accusatory rhetorical question but I'm serious, is it something you've ever tried to understand or are you just so sure that you are the nice guy that couldn't have crossed a line? It could really be worth talking to her.

that’s the world we live in, a women doesn’t need proof or make a claim like that

The world you say you live in, isn't the world many, many women live in.