2.5 years on

[NoMoreMarbles]

I posted in March/April 2017 about my H having had an EA for 4-6 months and finding out etc

I'm a regular lurker and not so regular poster(anymore) but been a member since 2005ish...

I'm not sure what I'm trying to gain from this post really but I know that there's so many of you out there who have been through an affair and have chosen to stay or leave so someone else's perspective is always useful regardless of if you agree with my decision to stay with him for now.

So my reason for posting is my H has now (finally) told me the truth about the affair and confirmed what I thought all along since I found out that it was a full blown physical affair.

He has a long history of lying (by omission mainly but if asked outright he will continue to lie to cover his arse/minimise his behaviour) and right up until last Wednesday maintained that he had never had sex with the OW and that it had only ever been sexting.

I didn't feel strong enough when I found out at the beginning to get past it all alone and make him leave and I felt I was to blame... I don't feel that now...

My perspective on this has changed and now that the details are in the open I have now started to try and actually process what I should have had the opportunity to process 2.5 years ago.

We are still together and keeping up appearances for now for the sake of DD (13yo) but I've set a time limit on how long this can go on for (5 years from now- twice the time since the affair ended so far) based on the knowledge that in many many ways, our relationship has actually been better in the last 18 months than before the affair but that's not taking into account that he has maintained the lie throughout that time.

It's mainly the lying that bothers me (and the sh*%ging another woman obv) but it's also something he has said when we've discussed it again last night that he doesn't feel he can talk to me so it's easier to lie. How will he change that if I'm not the person he can confide in?

After lurking on similar threads I have decided to try and protect myself financially, and start to take steps to look at the realities of separation as at this moment in time i don't believe he is capable of change but obviously time will tell and if we do stay together I will be in a better position should he revert to type...

A handhold would be nice but some impartial advice would be welcome too...

Bumping for some replies...

Oh OP, I'm afraid I haven't been in this position to offer you advice, but I want to offer a handhold. Can you do 5 years? Please make sure as well as looking after your financial position (that's a great thing to do) look after your mental health too. It sounds really draining and difficult.
Can you go to counselling at least for yourself to help yourself work through this new revelation?
Handhold, , , - take what you need!

that he doesn't feel he can talk to me so it's easier to lie.

Well, what's even the point then?
I'm sorry, lovely, but you must be able to see that this is a hopeless prospect.

A handhold from me lass whatever you decide.

Why 5 years? You really aren’t doing your daughter any favours. Don’t labour under the illusion that she will thank you for it. My friend was your daughter. She now has little to do with either of her parents. She said it was unfair of her mother to sacrifice her life for her. Too much pressure and it’s effed up their relationship. She’s very angry with her mother for not having more backbone/the balls to stand up for what’s right and set a decent example. Do the right thing here. Get rid of your lying/deceitful husband and tell your kid why. Show her she shouldn’t put up with being treated like crap.

How is your daughter? When you say 'stay for her sake' do you think that's really in her best interests? Don't model a relationship with a man who's given himself permission to be a liar.

Thanks for the replies

My main reasons for 5 years is that We have some debts that are being paid off and I want to give myself some time to make sure I'm not financially tied to him if I decide to leave (still very back and forth about this) plus DD will be 18 if we make it to the 5 year point so no child to tie us together in that way. She worships him and is a lovely and well behaved girl so I don't feel it's fair to pull the rug out from under her feet because I'm hurt by her fathers actions.

I'm very open to any and all opinions as I've gotten past the blinkered stage I think and now can't find the right head space to see things clearly as I'm seeing everything all at once if that makes any sense at all...

Teenagers are a lot more aware of our worries than we give credit, and unless you can seriously Stepford this out, I have to say I don’t think you are doing her any favours. It’s far better for her to see her parents making healthy and positive decisions than covering things up, as let’s face it, it seems there has been more than enough of that. Is it not better to model congruence and decision-making based on honesty? She’ll learn the truth at some point, surely it’s better to be open? Your husband should have thrown all he had at rebuilding your trust when you offered him a lifeline, instead he lied on. You deserve better.

our relationship has actually been better in the last 18 months than before the affair but that's not taking into account that he has maintained the lie throughout that time.

and that's a BIG BUT ....why did he finally tell you ?

We had an argument last week as he spoke to me really badly and in the course of the argument it moved on to the EA and as I have always had a nagging doubt in my mind that he was lying about it being just EA I basically said truth or leave and it came out.

I feel I have the majority of the details ( I really can't bare to hear the gory details as my imagination is more than enough) and I'm trying to deal with this one day at a time

He's lied to you for 2.5 years.

What a cunt.

I honestly don’t know how you can bear to be in the same room as him let alone live with him for another 5 years pretending to be a couple to your child! You say she worships him. That’s not healthy anyway. I think you really need some help from a counsellor on maintaining healthy boundaries and co-dependency issues for you and your child. She has a relationship with her father. That doesn’t require you to be involved or facilitate that. I’m not sure I understand why you are involving her in your decision making here? I have plenty of friends who have split up for far less serious reasons than you have and everybody’s relationships/interactions are good and happy. You need to separate out your relationship with your husband from your husbands relationship with your child. They aren’t dependent on each other. You say it’s not fair to pull the rug from under her feet. You realise that’s a strange way to think about it right? I think you are using it and her as an excuse to not actually do anything about what’s happened. Again, seek help as you come across as having an avoidant attachment type personality. Google it and self educate yourself. Even if you wait until she’s 18, what happens then with this fictional rug? She’ll then be at Uni maybe, so what you wait until she’s finished her degree because it’s not fair to pull rugs then? She’s going to feel more resentful the longer you leave it. You’ll have some tough questions to answer you know if you do that. You’ll then say “I did it for you” and she’ll hate you for that. The younger they are, the more resilient they are and they adapt much more quickly. Honesty is your best policy here and it could make your bond stronger. You can split amicably and healthily. It doesn’t have to be volcanic. The longer you leave it, the more toxic it becomes and the more impacted your mental health and that of your daughter.

Massive hand hold - But I honestly don't think you're doing yourself or Dd many favours here. You know what's he's done and where you stand in his opinion of you. Dd will not benefit from her mum living a lie for another 5yrs IMHO. My parents divorced due to an affair when I was 12 and it was massively hard and frankly at that initial point a life implosion. But! I would never have wanted someone to live in misery and putting their own life on hold to protect me from it. Five years will not pass quickly unless you spend it living your own & Dds lives to the best you can.

And you know he is projecting his flaws and bullshit on to you here. It's not that he can't tell you the truth so he has to lie. It's because he doesn't want you to call him out on his bullshit and so he can play the victim card for his own actions.

I'm really confused by this (and I mean this gently) - you're actively planning to live in misery for the next five years for... what reason?

It's not going to get any easier to break up and actually, as a child of divorced parents I would think it would be better now than in five years time. The teenage years are difficult enough without living under a black cloud at home (trust me, it's there) and your daughter will not suddenly become completely independent on her 18th birthday.

He's treated you appallingly. Please don't waste another five years of your life living in limbo for your daughter's sake. Life's too short and in the long run, he won't thank you for it.

*she won't thank you for it.

He's rank.

So he's emotionally abusive, a liar and a cheat? I think the cheating is the least of your problems here OP and raising your DC in an emotionally abusive relationship is far more detrimental to their wellbeing than the effect of divorce.

Have you ever considered your 'D'P is a narcissist? It may help to read up on it to learn some coping strategies if you insist on staying.

I married a narc and he cheated and lied incessantly. I think I only ever found out about 1% of what he really got up to and leaving him was the best thing I ever did for me and my DC.

I'm not saying it's easy to just up and leave but surely it's better than living with an abuser? When I left, my youngest DC was only 6 weeks old and I had to live on benefits for 1 year but it was better than the living hell of putting up with exH abuse.

Please dont listen to any of his bullshit reasons of why he cheated or why he cant discuss it with you.

He cheated because he wanted to fulfil his own needs and clearly doesnt care about how this affected you as he lied for years and now he is trying to put it back on you by saying he cant talk to you about things. He's a selfish arsehole and I doubt you will ever get the full extent of what went on and he'll never be honest about why he did it.

Stop looking to him for closure and start planning your new life without him. I know how scary this can be but its infinitely better to be poor for a while and have your life back than let your children grow up in an abusive household as it will leave them emotionally scarred for life. You deserve so much better OP and only get one life

I am replying quickly and haven't had chance to read other replies properly except your reasoning to wait 5 years. I don't understand the waiting until children are 18 thing..sorry. When I found out about my ex and his OW last year, that was it. My DD was in the midst of her mock exams and it was a tough time. I had no financial back up except my job and friends to help me with practical arrangements. But we left and got through it, my DD and I are 100% happier as she saw that my ex (he was her step-dad) had started to be an arse over a period of time (coincidentally from when he met the OW).

I'm afraid no man is worth being miserable over for 5 years. I couldn't stand 5 minutes more after I found out for sure. You can still put financial arrangements in place, but it doesn't have to take that amount of time. It is disrespectful to yourself and not a great model for your children either. How will they feel when they find out the truth about their father? Or are you going to protect him by never letting them find out? Teenagers are not stupid.

Honestly, I despair reading things like this as it just makes me so sad that you will be to all intents and purposes, wasting your life on someone, just for the supposed happiness of the children...when they will probably know for sure that something is going on anyway. The upheaval is always going to be stressful, but once that is out of the way and you are living a life free from this arsehole, you will turn a corner and realise it was worth it. Please do not waste 5 years on him.

Also to add..my DD's father and I split when she was much younger and I agree with @pebblemix regarding people who have split for lesser reasons. I split with her father due to him constantly being irresponsible, financially. However, we have maintained an amicable relationship throughout. My DD also worshiped her father, but I didn't feel the need to stay with him just for her sake. She is a very well adjusted girl and it hasn't affected their relationship at all.

If you can manage to live with him until your debts are gone. It would be great. But don't do it if it will eat you up emotionally. Can you maintain a pleasant environment around your daughter when your dh is home? Even a neutral environment would be good. That requires both you and your dh to establish and maintain. Don't have arguments infront of her, if you find yourself in one, then excuse yourself walk away come back when you composed yourself. Then arrange a date to discuss the issue further. Don't involve your daughter in your relationship. There is absolutely no need for air your dirty clothes infront of her. Just tell her what she needs to know and keep it age appropriate.
Don't force her to choose sides and most importantly please don't be offended if she still wants to maintain contact with her father. Don't make her feel guilty about having enjoyed some time with her father. It won't mean she approves his behaviour, just that she enjoys spending time with him and being happy he has remembered her. He didn't cheat on her, but on you. It is true that your actions now would model to your daughter how to break up with a dh. So do your best to do this as amiable as possible with the least amount of damage for everyone involved. How would you do this, I don't know. Maybe try some counselling to help both of you understand better what you feeling and to help the other person understand you more. I think it is great you want to leave after you sort out your finances, but be careful of your dh. If he finds that out and still wants you, then he could try and sabotage your plan. He had proven to be a good lier, so take heed.

if you divorce now or divorce in 5 years, its still going to affect her. Thats not to say that I think you should stay together, butthe truth of what he did is going to come out (unless you intend to lie to her, as he did to you, so that she can still think he is the wonderful man she apparently thinks he is)
So which is the best? Take steps as soon as you know what the truth is? Or bury it and lie by ommission to her for the next 5 years, and thwen she discovers you have known all this time and she has been allowed to carry on whilst being decived?
Im not one for thinking a child needs to know the full ins and outs of their parent's marriage, but when you are dealing with a partner who has lied and with-held, how can doing the same to your child be healthy?
Plus the atmosphere is going to change from now. It probably has never really recovered from the incident 2 1/2 years ago, despite on the surface appearing to be the best 18 months.
The debts can be sorted. Your financial security can be sorted. In purely mercenary terms its probably best to split whilst you are NOT 100% on your feet, especially if your daughter will live with you.
Their relationship will continue in your absence and, if they ahve as good a relationship as you say then they will continue to do so. Although of course the reason for the split may have an impact and he may find it not so easy to refuse to answer her questions. But this is not YOUR issue, not YOUR fault - he is responsible for his own actions and the consequences of them - there is no reason for you to keep his dirty secret simply to save him face with his daughter, especially if you are planning on leaving in 5 years time, because then she will feel betrayed by both of you.
And in regards just saying 'you drifted apart' or suchlike rather than being truthful - if the real reason stays hidden then you will no doubt be the one blamed for splitting from this 'wonderful' man, so basically sacrificing your relationship with your daughter to keep his faultless image intact?
This is the reaity of cheating and lying and covering up. This is why the short term issues of honesty hurt far less than pushing things under the carpet in order to 'do the best'. They all have the potential to be exposed, and then everyone gets hurt far far more than if everyone had been honest in the first place.

"You need to separate out your relationship with your husband from your husbands relationship with your child. They aren’t dependent on each other. You say it’s not fair to pull the rug from under her feet. You realise that’s a strange way to think about it right? I think you are using it and her as an excuse to not actually do anything about what’s happened. Again, seek help as you come across as having an avoidant attachment type personality. Google it and self educate yourself. Even if you wait until she’s 18, what happens then with this fictional rug?"
My DF discovered my DM had an affair for 4.5 years but loved her and decided they could work on their marriage. He later discovered she was having another affair. I was 24 and married and, apart from bereavements, the breakdown of their marriage is probably the thing that has had the most profound effect on my life.

Younger siblings took it in their stride, more concerned about whether they'd have to help out more living with dad or if that meant two presents on their birthday.

I was changed forever. My DM didn't just lie to dad, she'd spent years lying to us all. This hurt the most. Nothing had seemed wrong at home. It made me wonder why I'd bothered getting married if years down the line I would split up. I questioned everything about my life.

I would say that if you know you'll split (and I wouldn't stay with someone who lies to me) do it now while the DC are younger and are still probably a little self-absorbed. Don't wait until they have full understanding of marital relationships and will be heartbroken that your DH has spent his life effectively lying to them too. I think the younger the DC the easier they will cope with their parents' marriage breakdown.

Also, what is the point of living in a sham marriage? You don't even know this man.

Thanks again for the replies

Regarding the attachment side of things, I'm aware that I'm very emotionally reliant on my H and I need to distance myself from that a bit for sure but it's not as black and white in reality to do that. The 5 years was a suggestion that I made which I have questioned since as I do feel that it's a long time.

DD has overheard the arguments at the beginning 2.5 years ago (small house with very few places to go) and has told me this morning that she's overheard our conversations about it this week so protecting her really isn't a concern now.

I can't just make him leave right now, I have to try and sort out finances and can see whether changes actually happen.

I agree he's been a total shit but it remains to be seen whether I can live with that or not

If you separate when your DD is at Uni, beware the awfulness that will be student finance. My kids all got full grants/loans on the basis of me being a single mum and bringing them up on my pitiful income. If I'd been with their (high earning) dad, they would have been assessed as not being eiligible for any loans or grants. If we'd subsequently split, trying to sort out the student finance position would just about have finished me off!

If it's not unbearable, I see where you are coming from wanting to stay a bit longer. But just think what it's doing to your mental health, having to sleep with him, cook for him etc, when you know, deep down, what a liar he really is. Maybe start making new support networks now.