My friends wife. Is this abuse?

[wotNtarnation]

I am quite good friends with a man that I work with. We've worked together for around 10 years and have spent many lunchtimes alone together at a local cafe as well as group nights out and a few evening trips to the pub after work here and there, sometimes alone and sometimes with a group. Nothing sexual has ever happened, not even after alcohol! We are just friends and enjoy each other's company. We are both married with children.

The problem is with his wife. I have met her a handful of times at work but he's never admitted to her that we have a friendship. When I meet her I have to pretend he and I are not close. She's very jealous and insecure and wouldn't like it, even though it really is just a friendship and she has absolutely nothing to worry about.

It's not just about me either. I have asked him and she's jealous of a lot of women, often accuses him of cheating/having affairs, will sulk and not speak to him if he mentions some of women that we work with. Lately I've felt really sorry for him due to some of her behaviours and accusations.

Do you think this is a form of abuse? He does still have the freedom to go out, she doesn't stop him, however, she can become sulky about it and sometimes will try to make him feel guilty about going out. He also has to lie to his wife about who he is with if there are women in the party, he has to delete any text messages that I send him straight away (I assume this is the case with other women he might text too), he can't have female friends visit the house. Is this normal? Is it acceptable behaviour? Should I try to speak to him about this?

He has no reason to lie to me...
He potentially has EVERY reason to lie to you, as much as he would his wife. Not saying that’s how it is, just cutting out the lying rationale.

slamdunk that's so sad though and it makes absolutely no sense. Nobody would expect same sex friends to stop being friends. I don't really see what the difference is if it's a totally platonic friendship.

I think my work friend would probably have a very limited social life if he never did anything that would upset his wife. She wouldn't like him to go to any kind of event where there would be other women.

She has accused him of shagging half the women in our office just about and doesn't like him to go to work events if any of the accused women will also be attending. He still goes but she gets cross with him and won't speak to him for days.

I don't want to end the friendship over this. I do value it and we have a good time. It makes the working day go by quicker.

Also want to add that we don't go out together for lunch/to the pub all the time. It'll only be maybe once every few weeks. Usually there will be a few of us when we go but sometimes working times mean that just the two of us are available. It's not by design.

It’s happened to me a few times. The vast majority of women aren’t happy with their men texting and meeting other women alone. I see my childhood friend now but his wife is usually in tow. Just the way it is & very common.

You're breathtakingly naive, OP.

Hopefully you never have the misfortune to ever find yourself married to one of these. Yes, they do spread stories about the wife to colleagues, friends etc for plausible "marriage on the rocks" sympathy fucks and, yes, their behaviour is crazy making for the wife. For your sake, hope that you never see the other side.

“I also think it's pretty normal that men don't have female friends visiting their house or texting really. It's just part of adult relationships for a lot of people”

This is the complete OPPOSITE of having an adult relationship.

Perhaps if he spent more time and effort with the woman he chose to marry, and less time sneaking about, she’d be less anxious.

“I also think it's pretty normal that men don't have female friends visiting their house or texting really. It's just part of adult relationships for a lot of people”

This is the complete OPPOSITE of having an adult relationship.

Agreed overnightangel. My DH has female friends visit the house (usually when I am in though) and often texts/calls/goes out alone with female colleagues and friends.

Our relationship is very open and honest and we trust each other completely. If that trust was to be broken the relationship would be over, it's as simple as that.

I also think this might have gone differently if my friend was a woman and her husband was jealous. There has been too much focus on us having an "emotional affair" (despite all evidence to the contrary) than the actual issue.

I don't see why you are asking if the wife's behaviour is controlling or strange, what you should be asking is why is your married friend sneaking about with you on lunches and nights out, deleting texts and lying to his wife.
if my husband was acting like this I would think he was cheating on me and be jealous?
I don't understand why you can't see it from her point of view?

I don't see why you are asking if the wife's behaviour is controlling or strange, what you should be asking is why is your married friend sneaking about with you on lunches and nights out, deleting texts and lying to his wife.
if my husband was acting like this I would think he was cheating on me and be jealous?
I don't understand why you can't see it from her point of view?

He's "sneaking about" because he doesn't want his wife to find out and fall out with him/not speak to him for days/argue with him/accuse him of cheating over nothing.

If my husband did this I would also think he was cheating but that's because we have an honest relationship where he's allowed to socialise with whoever he wants. Unlike my friend.

My husband can come home and tell me he's been for dinner with a female colleague without negative repercussions so a sudden change would be strange and out of character.

But it's not nothing to her! He's with you, moaning about her, and the life they've built together. How can you not see that?

the way he is talking about and treating his wife would put me off having a friendship with him.
have you told your husband that the two of you have to keep your friendship secret to his wife?
if my partner told me that I would be asking some questions and they wouldn't be about his wife.

Does your husband know about this thread?

Yes I have told my husband that he has to keep our friendship a secret.

We also don't talk about his wife very often at all. We don't usually mention it. It's not as though he's slagging her off all the time. When we go for lunch we are usually in a group. When we're alone we usually talk about work related stuff or TV shows, that kind of thing. This is all over the course of a long time. We had a chat last week about some of her behaviour which is what prompted this post.

You sound like you both have a bit of a crush on each other. If his marriage is so awful and the poor man is being bullied maybe he should leave.

I dont think your going to get much support on here op sadly... mumsnet is full of women who think it's impossible to have close friendships with the opposite sex without it being sexual or an emotional affair. You instantly get branded a 'cool wife's if you disagree...
If you really think your friend is in an abusive relationship all you can do is be there for him from a distance because it usually takes a long time for people to leave these kinds of situations. Personally I'd try and meet his wife and say you dont want to be lied about and if he has to do that it's not right. Either way it's not right... if hes being abused the lying isnt right and if she has genuine reason to be suspicious the lying isnt right. So I'd tackle that first and tell him you wont be meeting him unless his wife knows about it. Make it clear you think its abusive for her to be that controlling over his platonic relationships with other people... but also make it clear that you will not take part in any shady lying because it's not going to help his situation.

He may be lying or exaggerating or maybe he wife is really jealous and insecure. I’ve end a relationship over it in the past.

I would carry on as you are.

mumsnet is full of women who think it's impossible to have close friendships with the opposite sex without it being sexual or an emotional affair

Yes because lying about spending time with someone of the opposite sex is totally normal and ok.

Just want to pick up on something you said there..
you said "Within our team it is pretty commonly known that wife is jealous, friend has said (lightheartedly) "Didn't manage to watch X last night because wife was accusing me of cheating" and he has tried to make a bit of a joke of it".

That's not something that is 'known' though, that's something your friend is implying. I know loads of men for example who make out that their partners don't like them going to the pub etc. but yet they are always in the pub! The partners just don't like that they are ALWAYS there, or they don't know when to stop drinking or they waste loads of money, or they don't come home after benders!

The reality is that you don't know anything about this relationship apart from what he's telling you.

The reality is that loads of men will slate their wives when they are doing or have done things wrong in the past.

And finally she showed up at the office and stuff which could perhaps give some weight to what he has said, but it could also provide support for the alternative version, which is that he behaves in ways that are inappropriate or has in the past, and now she's paranoid because of it and checking up on him all the time because she feels like she's going mad.

You only have his side of things what he is telling you. I am in the same situation except I am the wife my husband lies about his contact and meeting up with his friend only one particular friend he’s filled her head with the script of my wife is jealous paranoid etc he has lied to her to make me look bad i am not any of those things i initially said I was uncomfortable with the level of contact he then chose to lie and sneak around which has obviously made the situation a million times worse to the point we are likely to separate because of it. He of course hasn’t explained to her that he doesn’t behave like this with any other friends or that he stalks her Facebook 20 times a day and has downloaded pictures of her that he’s not even in etc etc it’s much easier to blame the wife and call her abusive

Alfiemoon sorry you are in this situation. It sounds awful for you. There is one major difference between my story and yours and it's that my friend is like this with a lot of the women he knows, not just me.

Think I am just going to carry on as we are. Be friendly and not think too much about it. We don't usually talk about his wife so I will just avoid the topic. If he wants to say something I will listen but I won't bring it up myself and he doesn't seem too keen to want to talk too seriously about their problems. I won't ask!

He’s got himself into a vicious circle though hasn’t he. The more he lies the less his wife will trust him and the more suspicious she will be. My husband tells her he has to be like this with everyone he doesn’t and isn’t as I have said you only have his side of the story

If you’re just friends, then why is it so important to you that he owns up about you?
This sounds very like cheaters behaviour to me. Just because he’s not with you, doesn’t mean he’s not with others or hasn’t been.
Classic ‘ my wife doesn’t understand me, we never have sex and I’m not allowed to talk to other women’