My friends wife. Is this abuse?

[wotNtarnation]

I am quite good friends with a man that I work with. We've worked together for around 10 years and have spent many lunchtimes alone together at a local cafe as well as group nights out and a few evening trips to the pub after work here and there, sometimes alone and sometimes with a group. Nothing sexual has ever happened, not even after alcohol! We are just friends and enjoy each other's company. We are both married with children.

The problem is with his wife. I have met her a handful of times at work but he's never admitted to her that we have a friendship. When I meet her I have to pretend he and I are not close. She's very jealous and insecure and wouldn't like it, even though it really is just a friendship and she has absolutely nothing to worry about.

It's not just about me either. I have asked him and she's jealous of a lot of women, often accuses him of cheating/having affairs, will sulk and not speak to him if he mentions some of women that we work with. Lately I've felt really sorry for him due to some of her behaviours and accusations.

Do you think this is a form of abuse? He does still have the freedom to go out, she doesn't stop him, however, she can become sulky about it and sometimes will try to make him feel guilty about going out. He also has to lie to his wife about who he is with if there are women in the party, he has to delete any text messages that I send him straight away (I assume this is the case with other women he might text too), he can't have female friends visit the house. Is this normal? Is it acceptable behaviour? Should I try to speak to him about this?

You are very close

Have lunches together and sometimes meet up in the evenings alone

Share secrets with him

He hides his tracks

It sounds very much like an emotional affair. I feel sorry for the wife

The pair of you have overstepped boundaries here.

You've fallen for his poor me- I cant run about messaging and meeting other woman in secret because my wife's so mean etc

I'd say the wife has been fed enough of his bullshit, lies and excuses to know that something is up.

It would absolutely be the lying and hiding would it for me. If theres nothing going on, then why hide the messages and lie about meeting up.

Why pretend you aren't that close when you're happy to indulge in his little secret....

Sounds to me that he's telling you what you want to hear and doing the same to her. He seems to be loving all the attention and I think his wife is absolutely right to be worried (although you only have his version of events for how his wife is feeling). If you'd any sense you'd keep well away.

@wotNtarnation does he ever tell you nice stuff about his DW? Are you the soundboard, the shoulder to cry on?

One big viscous circle that your own marriage could do without tbh

It's none of your business what goes on in their marriage, stay out of it. You only know what he tells you.

You seem overly invested in this “friendship”. It sounds like an emotional affair between the two of you. Is your DP aware of just how close you are? He is disloyal to his marriage, and possibly a cheater in the past or cheater to be. However it sounds like you both enjoy the thought of crossing the line.

I haven’t made my mind up. I’ve been friends with a few women from work but there husbands haven’t kicked off. Presumably because they’re self assured and in happy relationships. People only tend to get threatened when things aren’t good.

I don’t know for the life of me why anyone would think anything was going on though given how we both are but suppose when it’s that unlikely you can relax a bit

I couldn't be arsed with this moaning fucker.

He also has to lie to his wife about who he is with if there are women in the party, he has to delete any text messages that I send him straight away

He has to lie?

Who goes to a pub with a married man alone though ?? Gotta look at it like that. My DP wouldn't do that and I wouldn't do it either it's just odd

So, if you’ve heard about my IL issues before, forgive me. But I’m getting ahead this time! Tell me if I’m BU.
We got married, had honeymoon then spent 2 more weeks in my DH’s country so we could celebrate again with his extended family. Fine. Xmas? We had to see them again because we’d been alternating visits and it was his family’s turn. My dad dies in January. Since then we’ve tried to be fair to both sides and twice we left the country at Xmas because family got too much. Once to see my uncle at Xmas. Even that didn’t go down well.
But this year, the divorced ILs are pushing into everything. Our holiday. Where we were already planning on seeing them both. And now I just know they’ll push for Xmas time. I’ve just told my DH that Xmas day is for my mum this year, not them. They’ll just have to suck it up. My mum is due back at hospital tomorrow, had a heart attack and surgery previous. This year is surely mum’s turn. My DH says can’t she share? Ordinarily I’d say ok but just once surely my mum can be the centre of attention? Instead of DH’s divorced, angry, can’t be in the same room, always about them parents? AIBU or am I right to back up my mum this time? I think I know the answer but would be great if you could give me a kick up the backside or tell me your stories so I know I’m not the only one. Thanks in advance. I need a bit of help here. My MIL is narcissistic and my PIL not much better. xx 💋

I also think it's pretty normal that men don't have female friends visiting their house or texting really.

Sounds like an emotional affair to me.

Really? I've had best friend females I've been out with, visiting the house and texting.

Sounds like OP & her mate are just that. It's some distance to an emotional affair from it.

Will agree the complicit lying by omission isn't healthy.

Although their husbands/partners were friendly with my DP, something I missed in the OP.

“Who goes to a pub with a married man alone though ?? Gotta look at it like that. My DP wouldn't do that and I wouldn't do it either it's just odd”

No, it’s not.

Oh lots of replies to catch up on. I will try to answer everything.

I think a bit more background is needed. We have worked together for 10 years and have always been friendly but we have been working more directly with one another for the last 3 or 4 years so have become closer since then (ie more lunches together since then rather than for the whole 10 years)

Within our team it is pretty commonly known that wife is jealous, friend has said (lightheartedly) "Didn't manage to watch X last night because wife was accusing me of cheating" and he has tried to make a bit of a joke of it.

I met her for the first time about 2 years ago when she started randomly dropping by the office. Not all the time, just now and then.

He hasn't asked me to lie directly but has told me that he lies to her about his friendships, what he does at work etc (stuff I mentioned above). I've just gone along with the lie by omission by not appearing too friendly when she has stopped by and not mentioning anything which might get him in trouble based on what he has said about her jealousy.

He has met my husband, stopped by my house when we have been out in an area more local to me rather than him. I tell my husband openly and honestly about our friendship, lunches together etc. My husband has no issue with this.

What would be the difference between an emotional affair and just a friendship? When I said I tell him secrets I meant stuff I would share with a friend but wouldn't want everyone/the whole team to know. I have told him I have cheated on a past partner.

I also mentioned nothing happening even when very drunk because I think it something were to happen it'd be much more likely after a skin full but nothing has ever happened despite there being plenty of opportunity for it to have happened if it was going to.

I think he lies because this has all been going on so long now that he knows it's easier to lie than to tell the truth. They have been married for a long time now (15+ years) and for as long as I've known him there have been jealousy issues. I don't know if he has always lied but I get the sense he has given up. He has also been more unhappy over the last 18-24 months in my opinion. More annoyed with his wife than trying to make light of the situation iyswim. He used to also say positive things about her but that is becoming less and less frequent.

Sounds like a great friendship tbh, just not healthy he's unable to disclose his friendships to his wife.

*I have told him I cheated on a past partner.
*
Well now he knows you're capable of that he's hoping you'll do it again with him as his "wife is so awful"

Well now he knows you're capable of that he's hoping you'll do it again with him as his "wife is so awful"

I also told him I'd never cheat on my husband. And it was a fairly long time ago that I told him this.

I don’t like people who openingly slag off their partners to casual acquaintances such as work colleagues so I think his behavior is worse. If he is not happy then he can move on. I would imagine she is quite insecure and he loves the drama/attention of secret friendships etc. she may be abusive but you only have a liars version so who knows. Handy for him that he knows that you have cheated before it seems it is solely a friendship for you but you don’t know if he has an agenda.

Do you meet up with him with your husband present? If not why not?

My husband has a female colleague he is friends with. They've been on work trips alone together etc. The difference is that there's no secrecy. If they go for a pint after work he tells me and if there's an event or party me (and her husband) are invited. There's no secrecy.

Try walking a mile in his wife's shoes and you may get your answer about this "friend". I can't work out if your naive or just obtuse. His behaviour is the problem. The very idea that you lie to her at his request is just absurd. What kind of friendship is this? It's ridiculous. Grow up.

In my opinion, having been on the receiving end of this by my husband. Yes its abuse.

It's awful. And you do end up omitting things from your day. I would have dared mentioned I had a 1-2-1 with my male boss. That would have equated to me having sex with him in an office.

I felt alot of shame for lying by omission to my exh. However through counselling I realised it was self preservation.

It's really difficult to tell from the outside, what's going on.

On the other hand I have had a male friend at work. We would grab coffees together, chatted etc. I didnt really socialise with anyone outside work that wasnt allowed and exh would have made my life miserable. But one day I said to my friend 'guess who added me on facebook last night?' And he look horrified and said 'my wife, did she message you?'.

I was really shocked that he looked so worried. I said 'no bob from accounts, why would your wife be messaging me'. It turned out that she thought we were having an affair. Because I called him about a work issue, that he asked me to call him and update him on. I was really shocked and he then told me he had been lying to her about us being friends and saying that he didnt really mix with women. On the day I called him, as I rang off I told him to enjoy his afternoon at B&Q. She heard this and realised that actually he did chat to women at work.

At the moment I backed off the friendship. I genuinely though we were just mates in work. Just texting etc. But the fact that he lied to his wife really made me uncomfortable and I didnt want to be in the middle.

And then of course it comes out he left his last job because he had been shagging someone at work, so that's why she was so upset.

Again, I didnt get into who was right or wrong. I removed myself for me.

Wishihad thanks for your reply. That's really useful that you have experienced both sides. I suppose it's right what people say; I can never really know what is going on as I only have one side of the story.

I don't tend to probe too much into it as I feel it's not really my place to be asking deep, in depth questions about their marriage. This is just based on snippets that he has told me. More so more recently. Plus his change in attitude to his relationship recently, going from lighthearted to less lighthearted and more serious.

Before I thought his wife sounded hard work but he seemed happy enough so just left it. Now it has got me thinking...

I also think it's pretty normal that men don't have female friends visiting their house or texting really. It's just part of adult relationships for a lot of people.

I agree with this.

You’ve no way of knowing if it’s ‘abuse’ or not without much more information. I haven’t been on MN long but the word ‘abuse’ seems to be used here a helluva lot!

One of my closest childhood friends has pared our friendship back a lot since he got married. I think it’s sad but if we continued as we had been, it would affect his marriage (even though we never once kissed or had any kind of conversation about being together ever). It’s just the nature of marriage for many people. This guy though isn’t happy to do that for his wife as my friend is. Just an observation.

If I were you, I’d keep it professional with him & forget about texts and out-of-work meet-ups etc. as I’d be looking to stay well out of it & not get pulled in to their drama/dynamic.