Driven to exhaustion and madness by female narcissist, your opinion please

[boldspear]

Hello everyone, I would love to have some advice, please. I have been in an on and off relationship with a woman for 12 years.
We have a daughter together and I have always done my best to be the best partner and father.
I have had to put up with a lot over the last 12 years, she spends every single Christmas and New Year with her mother, who refuses to invite me over because she has been told lies about me by my partner, she too is a narcissist which probably explains why her daughter (my partner) is one. She spends my birthday with her mother too, so for 12 years, I have ended up spending my birthday alone or with my daughter. She has lied to her mother and says we are not in a relationship, we can't go out or do anything public like as a normal couple would, she gets my daughter to lie to her grandmother and say she never stays at my home, but in reality, even though she has her own place, she has stayed with me basically fulltime. She lays in bed until 11 am on the days she is not working, I do all the housework, cook the dinners, do the school run, all the food shopping all of which I have to fit in around my own work.
She gets treated like a queen, I make coffee every morning and take it up to her, on the weekend I make breakfast and take it to her in bed.
I have also helped her financially over the last 12 years and also getting her out of trouble with debt collection agencies. I have purchased a car for her, paid for car repairs, MOT, car tax and insurance. I have probably spent close to £40 000 sorting her life out for her.

I am not perfect but I am a good man and father and do everything for her, I am always on the end of a phone when she needs money or needs me to help her, but her phone is constantly on silent and she is very secretive. She never answers the phone the first time when you call her she is the most difficult person to get hold of when she is out.

She has left me twice before, just coldheartedly one day said she is moving out but could give me no reason why. She has the ability to just flick a switch and treat me as if I never existed, she breaks my heart and when I try and talk to her calmly about it, she just stares blankly at the wall and says she can't give me a reason why. If she eventually does talk, she usually will turn it all around on me and make me feel worthless and as if it is all my fault.

The first time she left me and moved out, she ended up being evicted and I allowed her to come back and stay with me, yes I know that is stupid, but I loved her and she is the mother of my daughter. She then moved out again with no explanation. However, every time she moves out, within a few months, she is contacting me again and we end up back in this weird "relationship" where it is a secret and I am back to doing everything for her again.

Over the last two years, I have been asking her to sort this out, we can't keep living like this, where our relationship is a secret and we can't be a normal family. She recently got evicted again from where she moved the last time she left me, and I have allowed her back to live with me and my daughter. Yes, my daughter prefers to live with me than her mother, her mother doesn't treat her very well.

So she lives with me again, she has accepted all the love and help I give her, she has one of the easiest lives a woman could have. I told her that after 12 years of this I am tired of living like this and it is time to sort this out, I just want a normal life with a woman, not a secret relationship, it causes anxiety every single day, she does what suits her and never what is good for her daughter or relationship. Over the last three months of her living with me, I have asked her to please tell me what I can do to help her sort out all these lies she has told about me to her mother, so we can just live a normal life and start moving forward instead of being stuck in this rut. She just stared blankly again and said she is going to move out for the THIRD time. She said she can't give me a reason why and that she knows I do everything for her but that is not her problem, and she can't undo all the lies she has told her mother and others because I am not worth the trouble it would cause her.

So she has gone from being evicted and me helping her once again, to now leaving. She has suspiciously gone from not being able to pay an £850 a month rent, to now moving into a £1400 a month house on her own. She is moving out on Sunday and she just lays in bed, watching TV, not doing anything as usual and acting as if she is doing nothing wrong. My daughter does not want to live with her so she is staying with me, and she is disgusted in her mother's behaviour towards me.

So after typing all this out, I can see myself I am with a toxic narcissistic person, but they have a way of making you feel lost without them, they can just break your heart over and over again, but you still try and hold onto them. It is almost as if she is enjoying watching me be in pain for this to happen again, it is like she enjoys destroying me.
I need to go no contact with her this time because every other time she has left me she comes back in a couple of months and I stupidly allow her to.
I feel like a complete mug, I have once again been used and now I am being discarded again and if you could see how coldhearted she is about it you would be astounded.
It has driven me to the point of mental exhaustion and I feel as if it is all my fault, but I know logically it isn't.

Is this how a relationship is? She tries to convince me that this is the norm and not everyone has the "perfect" relationship I am asking for. I am not asking for a "perfect" relationship, I just want a normal one, one where you feel appreciated and loved, and the person you are with is not going to leave you every few years and use you. Over the last 12 years, there has not been one week where I have not done something for her, even when she left me I have given all of my time, money and love to her no matter what she did to me.

I have to be strong this time and cut her off completely. I need to wake up and realise that I have a lot to offer and I can be in a normal relationship. If anyone has any ideas on how I can do this, I would really appreciate a woman's point of view on this would be very valuable to me, thank you for reading my post.

@Drogonssmile, I am so glad I found Mumsnet yesterday, I was in a really low place and I have never told anyone about this, so I thought I could ask others to see what they thought. She had done such a good job on me that she made me believe that it was all my fault somehow.
Posting in here has given me so much more mental strength now that I know I am not going crazy.

Start smirking back ;-) Also, for you and your daughter. You should do something nice together the weekend after next to celebrate :)

Hello @StormTreader, that's the thing, she isn't either of those, of course, I thought she was attractive in the beginning, she is 8 years younger than me, so not that much younger. I think I probably have my own issues about how I allow people to treat me.
I am a tall, masculine, fairly attractive I would say and mentally strong man, I love my family and would do anything for them, I don't give up easily which has not helped in this situation. I have allowed too much for the sake of trying to keep a woman in my life who treats me like rubbish.
I know I deserve more and with the help of your comment and all the others, it has helped me to strengthen my resolve to end this on Sunday, it stops now, I think she is in for a surprise.
Thank you again for your comment.

You definitely need to stop her contacting you, but I wouldn’t be so free and easy with her access to your dd.

She will want to punish you and your dd and as she can message her, I would imagine she will be horrifically toxic to her. You need to watch what is being said to your dd. Maybe set up a separate email address that you also have access to. Or divert all her messages to a separate SIM card so you know what’s being said and intervene where necessary.

Make sure your dd knows you are doing this and get her counselling with someone who specialises in toxic families and is not a proponent or family sticking together.

As a child of a narc, I can not recommend it enough. Oh the pain I might have avoided if I had had someone telling me at 11 that my mother wasn’t right. She will need more then you telling her this.

She sounds like a nightmare.

However, it's time to stop trying to fix her and look to your own enabling role in this situation - because ultimately that's what keeps it going: I bet there are many people who would have cut her off or gone very low contact with her years ago.

What unconscious need is she fulfilling in you? To be the rescuer? Did you have a parent who behaved like her? Are you unwittingly repeating old patterns?

The brutal fact is this woman will never change. All you can change is your response to her. I think you need to seek counselling for yourself to find out why you put up with her. Then you need to seek the advice of a solicitor to see about living arrangements for your daughter to give her some stability out of the chaos.

My gut feeling is you need to split up for good, seek residency for your daughter with you and her mother needs to be settled elsewhere with a court order that sets out exactly when your daughter will spend time with her. Ultimately that's the goal you need to keep in mind. It's your dd who is suffering the most and it is she who desperately needs stability.

@StoatofDisarray I smiled when I read your comment, I will start smirking back, that will make her think. I have already said that I am going to take my daughter out on Sunday to her favourite restaurant and we can start our life free of drama and pain. We will both sigh a great sigh of relief when she is gone.
I am looking forward to meeting someone lovely in the future who will show my daughter what a real woman and mother is like.
Thank you very much for your comment :-)

OK, you might have a problem with access as she will divert her calls to DD’s phone - unless you change DD’s number as well. Then your EX might start harassing the school. I’d get some legal advice TBH. Sadly your DD might not want to see her mother but officialdom says otherwise.

I knew a single dad where the mother floated in and out of her DD’s life. No one was happy.

SingleDad - I assume your opinion is based on experience but I can't agree with you entirely. The Freedom Programme was devised when Pat Craven saw the pattern of abuse over and over again in women abused by men - the men abused by women hasn't been developed yet (and funding is hardly plentiful..). There is also talk of tailoring the Freedom Programme for teenagers/school kids - again, funding.

I'd have to say I am well used to changing the gender of many things to get the message that it's for me as a woman (eg the bible and many cultural tropes). It's not ideal but it's not nothing either. I have used the FP to try to understand abuse of parents by their children. It's not ideal but it can be done. I can't imagine any FP I have attended would discriminate against a man who is experiencing the exact-same abuse at the hands of a woman. You just have to use your imagination - and you'd get total support.

OP I would recommend the FP even if you supplement it with eg Mankind. Also, ime it helped me a great deal, when leaving my NPD husband, to go to CoDA. It helped me to focus on how my damage had contributed to the appallingly toxic dynamic between us - and not to be swallowed up with the horror of blaming him for everything. Yes he was very sick but I wasn't great myself (not that you could compare!).

I wish you the very best. If you have any doubts, please do this for your daughter. The situation is immeasurably damaging for her - the sooner you get away from it and stop enabling her mother, the better for your daughter

I can't add anything other than to consider talking to a sister, brother, parent, friend.. It is likely they have a fair idea of what's going on anyhow, if not from you then from your child.
A cousin on my husband's side went through a very difficult time with a woman who wasn't as bad as this. When he eventually left, he was shocked that everyone knew what she was like. In his eyes, they'd covered it all up but in reality that's hard to do.

I feel for you & I agree with a lot of the advice but please don’t underestimate the effects on your daughter. She’s still her mother. I know it’s tempting to lower your own standards of behavior, to ‘smirk back’ etc. You say I think she is in for a surprise. Is this how you want it to go down? Is that in your daughter’s best interests?

I think you should get professional advice from a experienced psychotherapist or psychologist. I find some of what you’ve written worrying. At your daughter’s age, no new woman who comes in to her life will substitute for her own mother...get professional advice ASAP & I wish you all deep healing & happiness.

To be clear, I agree you need to break up but it’s the talk of meeting a new woman to show your daughter what a real woman & mother does that I find worrying.

@expergefactor thank you for your message.
Believe me, I know that no woman will ever replace her mother, and I would NEVER want or encourage that. What I meant was that it would be good for her to have a better female role model, whoever that is, unfortunately, she doesn't have one, only me, and I do my best to show her how to be a good person, she has seen me show her mother nothing but love and respect, even when she has been terrible to me, I always treat her with respect. Regarding her getting a surprise, what I meant by that is, she does not expect me to go NC. I would NEVER stop her or tell my daughter not to see her, I would want her to see her mum, as long as I know she would be ok. I am a very kind and reasonable man, I have done everything I can to save this relationship and have a happy family, i would never seek revenge, I just want a drama-free life and to make sure my daughter is happy.

@W0rriedMum Thank you for your comment, I have not told anyone about this, probably because in my heart I knew what they would say, and I did not want to hear it. My cousin is a good listener and we get on well, I will talk to him, thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.

I agree @Expergefactor. And actually that comment has made me wonder what the other side to this story is. After all, we're only getting the OP's perspective. Some men are great at presenting women as 'crazy' - who knows- maybe he says things like that to her as well. If he'd say it to a bunch of other women who are just trying to help - who knows? Either way i'm out.

You are In an abusive relationship . For your daughters sake please separate and detach from her mother. Never allow her to move back in with you. Your responsibility lies solely with your daughter, no-one else. Start divorce proceedings if you're married. You can never ever have a positive relationship with her so stop trying. Allow yourself to be available to meet someone who deserves you

I agree with Expergefactor. This isn't a game OP. These people - true narcissists - are extraordinarily poisonous. The best thing you can do for yourself is not engage, not play any games, not try to 'get her to see' - because you will lose, spectacularly.

As I've said, you need to work on yourself eg CoDA. You're not is such a great place yourself that you'd allow someone to treat you like this for 12 years. That's not to blame you, at all, but you need to do some work on yourself. Your obsession, addiction, to this woman is a serious concern and you've got your hands full dealing with that. Don't be thinking it's all her - yes she is extraordinarily sick but you're not well either. Don't forget, I am you ie I have experienced what you have experienced. So I'm not blaming you.

You need to be thinking about your daughter. The toxic dance her parents have done your daughter's whole life is very, very damaging for her. Demonising her mother isn't going to ultimately help her but probably further fuck up her view of women, her key role model for womanhood. Introducing a 'real woman' isn't going to undo all the damage done - plus if you don't do the work on yourself the chances of meeting a similar woman to your wife are very high.

Someone close to me had a wife like this, she’s a fucking lunatic and has got worse and worse over the years. She’s like a dementor - sucks all the life out of her partners, makes them think they’re going crazy, moves onto the next one as smoothly as a psychopath, always playing the victim. She can turn in the charm at the flick of a switch. Uses her children as pawns in the game. Has got worse over the years and resorted to violence against my friend’s new partner.

How old is your dd, op? Are you prepared for her suddenly deciding she’s going to want custody once she realises that she’s not affecting you anymore and you’ve moved on? Seriously you need to get the fuck away from her.

@RuffleCrow
I can assure you I wouldn't say this if it wasn't true. Yes there are two sides to every story I agree, and I would welcome any scrutiny, my daughter would tell you everything you need to know without even talking to me.
I posted here for advice, not for pity or sympathy.
It's comments like yours that make me wish I hadn't. I'm sorry you feel that way.
I appreciate your earlier comment and thank you for taking the time to type it.
Have a good weekend.

@springydaff believe me I know it's not a game, it's been a living hell. I do know that I've allowed it to happen to me and I need to work on it for me.
Thank you for your comment, I appreciate your point of view, I can assure you I'm doing everything the right way an I'm very kind and empathetic towards her still, but I will be have to put my boundaries up after she leaves so I don't let her in again.
I will be working on myself to heal this, I'm fully prepared to remain on my own too.
Regarding my daughter, try and understand that this is a very difficult situation and sometimes you will think something that you later realise is wrong.
I'm not going to get a real woman or mother for my daughter, she has a mother, what I will do is heal myself and be the best father I can be.
Have a good weekend

Hello everyone, I just would like to say that I have really appreciated your comments and have taken on board what everyone has said. I've been given sound advice in the last 24 hours which has made me feel that I'm not crazy and I'm not alone.

I have also had some accusations that I'm maybe lying or looking for pity, I'm sincerely not, I'm just in a difficult situation of my own doing, and believe it or not, I needed help to see what I needed to do.
Cutting off contact from someone you love is not easy, I have done what I could to give her a normal family life and now I've depleted my reserves.

I will continue to do the right and kind thing, I would never hurt anyone, even if they have hurt me.
We are not married so it is not complicated, I will go no contact and my daughter will see her mother whenever she wants to, it's up to my daughter. I will just do my best to be a good father. I have never and would never say anything bad about her mother, I would rather she not have to know.

In light of the comments on here that have questioned my sincerity, I'm going to no longer look at this posts comments, not because I'm wrong or not open to criticism, but when you are already in a difficult situation, the last thing you need are people attacking and making incorrect assumptions about you and making the doubt come back in my mind that this is all my fault. I take full responsibility for everything in my life, but in this case I know I've done and I'm still doing everything for her until she leaves me and her daughter again on Sunday.

Thank you to all the people that have been encouraging and told me the truth I needed to hear, you have helped me immeasurably.

As I said op, I've been you. Exactly you. So I'm not pointing fingers.

How do you plan healing yourself op? Genuine q.

I really hope you find your way through this and I wish you well. I hope you can see things a bit clearer.

I went straight to the last page of comments in the hope of finding an update to say that you have left this woman, since you are getting nothing from this relationship, and are being harmed, exploited, and gaslighted. Posting here was a big step - I know from experience that it is a big deal to tell others about what is happening. Your emotions will take a while to catch up, but you are going to leave this person eventually. I hope sooner rather than later! Remember that every extra moment you spend in this abusive relationship is blocking your way to a new, happy relationship with someone who respects you.

Final update:
She left today, no emotion with a smile on her face.
I must admit it's been really hard but I'm resisting texting her.

I'm taking my daughter on a camping holiday to Cornwall tomorrow for a week so we can have a change of scenery and enjoy some time away in nature.

Thank you for the wonderful people on here who gave supportive advice, pointed out my own failings, told me the truth and helped me see I need to get support to stay NC and heal which I have already done.

To the others who decided to attack and accuse me of lying, your judgment couldn't be more wrong, but that's a reflection of you not me.

I posted here to get an opinion and advice so I didn't think I was going crazy, all the gaslighting and mental abuse had me doubting reality.

I am so grateful for the 95% of Mumsnetters that helped me over the 24 hours my post went up, you are good people and I hope you all have the life and happiness you deserve.

I'm deleting my account in a couple of days and not tonight, just so I give everyone a chance to see this thank you message.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend

Your snippyness towards people who don’t agree with you is very revealing.