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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can my ex insist that I work full time?

34 replies

CobraGoose · 31/07/2019 19:56

Hi.

Feeling overwhelmed after a conversation with my ex, part way through a divorce.

So I’m not drip feeding, I’ll start with saying I was advised by a solicitor that I could apply for legal aid as his controlling behaviour amounts to domestic abuse. I didn’t want to do that - as he will find out I’ve got legal aid, work out why, and he will be furious. He is not violent but I am only just admitting to myself, and realising, how psychologically abusive he was and still is.

I have an apt with a womens charity soon, as they are going to provide me - and the children if necessary - with emotional support from this point. He tells them untrue things, and undermines my parenting.

The woman I spoke to on the way phone said that all of his behaviours are typical and are ways of trying to keep power and control.

I have paid our mortgage myself every month since we separated three years ago, and all the bills. He is absolutely furious that I am still in “his” house (his parents put in the deposit but I’ve been told by a solicitor that isn’t relevant)

I was a stay at home mum to 4 DC for 5 years before we split. He was financially abusive but I didn’t know that.

I got a part time admin job as soon as we split up. He does not cover sick days, inset days, attend school events or have the children in the school holidays (he sometimes has a few days or a week but would not let me know in advance so I could arrange things, and he sometimes cancels without much notice).

He has the 3 youngest children every other weekend and on a wed evening, the eldest is with me full time as he refused to stay at his dad’s. He pays me £3 a week more than the CSA rate for the children (but tells other people that he pays a “ridiculous” amount). He has never paid money to me for anything.

Even working three days was tough as my twins were only 3 and were ill a lot from being at nursery, so I had so much sick leave I was put on a trigger at work.

I then did a PGCE full time in this last year , partly so I can be with them in the holidays, and have just finished and got a part time teaching job.

He has stalled on the divorce (telling our young children that I hadn’t signed the divorce papers when, in fact, he had them for four months and hadn’t signed!).

To cut a long story short, he announced to me at handover earlier (I have them until 5pm on ‘his’ day in the holidays) that we are going to mediation to make things fair and that I should be working full time as other women he knows do, and there is no reason I can’t.

He wants me to buy him out of the house and I think it is connected to that, I can’t afford to. It is the only asset we have, with a fair bit of equity in it. He is renting, with his girlfriend.

I cannot see for a moment how I could cope full time - When I say he won’t cover sickness, accidents at school etc, I mean that he won’t even answer the phone.

When the kids get ill, usually the three youngest get it one after the other - and then I get ill too! It will be hard enough part time, plus there are all the early morning drop offs, pick ups and the cost or childcare too. Plus the impact on the children, I am pretty tired and stressed as it is and they don’t want to be at after school club until 5.30 every day.

I am hoping to work full time when they are at secondary and don’t need breakfast club etc.

He says his solicitor says there is no reason why I shouldn’t work part time. He is a liar and I shouldn’t have engaged in the conversation or let him get to me, I know, but I am going to be awake worrying about this now.

I want what is best for children and always has. The best bit is, he comes across as “such a nice guy” to everyone else, and convinces everyone I am the unreasonable one. And after a conversation with him, I start to think that maybe I am too; he always seems so sure of himself.

He used to threaten to go for custody of the children. Eventually I called his bluff, and I haven’t heard that one for a while. Now it’s all about the house or how much I work.

OP posts:
TheBrockmans · 31/07/2019 20:04

Is there any chance of downsizing, simply to get him financially out of your life sooner.

Lozzerbmc · 31/07/2019 20:04

What a cheek expecting you to work full time as well as looking after 4 DCs single handedly!! I’d get as much legal advise as you can re where you stand with house and maintenance. Good luck

millymollymoomoo · 31/07/2019 20:06

Well he can’t force you to but generally there will be a presumption that both parties maximise earnings. What’s the plan for the house and the financial split? You need to think about that with 4 children and make sure you secure s fair share

raspberryk · 31/07/2019 20:08

No he really can't.
Get legal aid, he's already being a dick amy way so may as well go the whole hog. Xx

LolaSmiles · 31/07/2019 20:08

I agree with brockmans. Is there a way you can cut ties with him financially? Sell up, downsize using what you're awarded in the divorce, get it all in writing from legal people so there's no room for being swindled.

PrincessLouis · 31/07/2019 20:11

I am a lawyer (not divorce). I don’t think he can make you work full time - the q here is how should the money be split. However what you get out may not be enough to keep the house without it. Your legitimate needs may not mean you get enough equity to keep the house without the mortgage you could raise on a full time salary. What your legitimate needs are depends on things like what other housing options there are near you. With lots of kids you will need somewhere a decent size. However ideally he would have somewhere big enough to have them too.

user1493413286 · 31/07/2019 20:12

Please get legal aid so you can get a solicitor and be able to fully fight this

sheshootssheimplores · 31/07/2019 20:13

How can he force you to work full time?

fedup21 · 31/07/2019 20:15

I would tell him, ‘I can’t work full time as you refuse to have the children if they’re ill or even answer the phone to me, so until they are older, it simply won’t be possible as you are too unreliable.’

I would then get Legal Aid.

stucknoue · 31/07/2019 20:15

He can't make you but there's an assumption you maximise earnings, therefore if it's feasible for you to work full time you should however it has no bearing on child maintenance only spousal maintenance which unless he's a high earner he won't be paying (I am dealing with that as my kids are over 18 but full time students and one is sen)

drspouse · 31/07/2019 20:20

How will he know you have Legal Aid?

FinallyHere · 31/07/2019 20:23

So sorry to read what you are going g through. Well done though on calling his bluff on the custody, that's the way to do it. I'm very sorry, it's just textbook stuff from him.

Won't it be great when you are finally free of his control. Hang on to that.

Meanwhile, get legal aid. Let's face it, he is going to be furious anyway. You don't have to appease him any more. Go for it

It can't help but help your case to be seen as requiring legal aid.

Desmondo2016 · 31/07/2019 20:24

I thunk you're over engaging with him and still allowing him to attempt control and coersion. Get the contact and the finances sorted, even if you have to take a hit on lifestyle or house type etc, then live your life free from his input.

But you can work whatever hours you want. He sounds like my ex.

CobraGoose · 31/07/2019 20:25

Thank you all of you.

If I work full time then I would, on paper, earn more than him. As he set up a ltd company and pays himself a low wage.

I was previously advised that I would be entitled to 60\70 % of the equity, based on the length of the marriage etc:

He said if I go for that then we will have 50% of the custody - which I fear it not best for the children. I previously had to report him to social services as he smacked out 7 year old so hard that she had welts and bruising on her bum. When she misbehaved recently at his house, he phoned me to rant about her behaviour and to tell me that if she does not start behaving, he will not have her there anymore (the implication being that her behaviour is my fault!)

Social services closed it after he was very remorseful and said he will not use smacking as disciple anymore. He doesn’t but he hates me more then ever after that (she still sees him because the social worker says it is up to her to decide, he treats them well most of them apart from being shouty)

Reading this back, I can actually see that I really need to man up and get the legal aid, regardless of what he will say and what his family will think of me (they think he is lovely )

OP posts:
Baby2nov2019 · 31/07/2019 20:26

What an amazing woman you are to have managed a PGCE whilst doing all this! Wow! No, there is no way he could ‘make you’ work full time. Even the notion is ridiculous. You should be so very very proud of yourself. As a teacher (who now teaches part time due to kids), I know how hard it can be but it will get better after NQT year and you may even find you want to go full time when all the kids are in primary. Well done again xxx

crimsonlake · 31/07/2019 20:28

I have been through this and was dragged back to court yet again as my ex believed I was not maximising my earnings. Difficult when you are in your 50's to walk back in to a job when you sacrificed your career at the expense of them furthering their's and being a sahm.
In my experience of several Judge's most are sympathetic, the occasional one not.
If I were you I would sort the financials aspect out and take it from there. I am assuming you are in a better financial place now and may actually receive less now as your earning capacity has improved and hopefully will continue to do so. Possibly try to go for a lump sum so you can purchase a new home.
I think you are very brave going in to teaching as it is not the family friendly job it once used to be. You mention your intention is not to put your children in after school clubs on those days. Most teachers I know are regularly in school until about 6 pm, so I think you might have to have a rethink on that one.

CobraGoose · 31/07/2019 20:29

Sorry about typos!

And he will know about the legal aid because his solicitor will be told, I’m pretty sure that is right.

I was shaking after that conversation earlier - he quite a small man and it seems ridiculous that I am scared of him. I could really feel it in my stomach though, I have not engaged for so long but I just got sucked into defending myself, and the relaxing evening I had planned (just the teenager at home with me, new pyjamas and a book) just went out the window.

Sorry I haven’t replied individually, feeling a bit frazzled - but really appreciate the support and advice

OP posts:
Missingstreetlife · 31/07/2019 20:30

Mediation is usual if you want to go to court. Please take legal advice whether this is appropriate because he is unreasonable. Fight this tooth and nail, go low contact, only communicate by email and only about dc. Let him wind himself up. This too will pass but take what is yours.

endofthelinefinally · 31/07/2019 20:33

Is he offering to pay for child care while you work?
My friend's ex tried this. He was also abusive, deceitful and controlling.
The judge pointed out that he would have to do some parenting and help with childcare costs. He declined to do that.

DontDribbleOnTheCarpet · 31/07/2019 20:36

Since he is abusive, you may not have to go to mediation (which makes the legal aid more important). Engaging in mediation with an abuser just gives them a stick to beat you with- avoid that if you can.

GruffaIo · 31/07/2019 20:40

You don't have to attend mediation if he's abusive, and no mediator should take on a couple with such unequal positions.

One obvious way he'll know about the Legal Aid is that your barrister will hand up a FAS form to the judge to be signed at the end of each hearing and that form is only for Legal Aid - if he's representing himself, the judge may well even explain that to him. But this isn't a good reason not to get Legal Aid - if you qualify, use it and get finality.

MaisieDaisy1 · 31/07/2019 20:56

I would advise that you definitely don’t attend mediation with him. That’s giving him power he shouldn’t have. The norm is that usually the court will let you stay in the house until the children are 18 as it is their home. You would be better to never have to reply on him for childcare when you are working as you are giving him the power to mess you around and potentially cause you issues at work. I would go through solicitors and have as little contact with him as possible. If he’s being coercive and controlling then you have every to ask your solicitor to arrange collection and pick up of children at a contact centre or neutral place rather than your home.

Sarahandco · 31/07/2019 21:03

Get the legal aid - after three years you deserve to be moving on.

You can't be forced to work full time if he is not taking responsibility for his share of the childcare ect. or contributing financially to that at the minimum.

Also to say he wont have the seven year old around anymore if she miss behaves? She is not an aquintance she is his responsibility too.

He sounds very difficult. Make sure you get Legal aid so that you can get everything settled and him off your back.

SometimesMaybe · 31/07/2019 21:20

Keep a diary of everything he says.
Get a legal aid solicitor.
When he mentions it - say “I can’t work full time whilst you are so unreliable with having the children”. Keep a note of every time he doesn’t have the children.
Grey rock technique. Only speak about the ins and outs with a solicitor. Sell the house if at all possible to use the equity to get something smaller.

Soontobe60 · 31/07/2019 21:35

You may need to be quite savvy here OP. He's clearly not going to sign over the house to you, so that means either it has to be sold or one of you will have to buy the other one out. That means either you will need to remortgage if you stay, get a new mortgage if you move, or rent. If you get a mortgage, your part time salary may not give you enough lending power. Think about what you want, what is feasible, and how to go about getting to that position.