Upset over parents' money

[flowergirl78]

My mum is terminally ill and now requires more care than we can provide so spent yesterday researching social care packages amongst other things. The SW I spoke to told me if they have over £20000 in savings they have to self fund. Didn't think that they would have this much but asked my dad later only to find out they have at least 150k in the bank (plus own home worth about 150k).

I have always assumed they had very little. My dad had a fairly low paid job, mum was a housewife, car is 25 year old banger, never spend any money on anything, which is obviously how they have accumulated so much.

I spoke to my sister and she is in shock too. She is in a difficult financial and personal situation herself and has been stuck in a home she hates because she can't afford to move. About 6 months ago she broke down in tears to him and asked if he could lend her 10k for her to buy a house she'd seen and said that she would set up a contract and repayment plan and pay him back £300 a month. He acted like she had asked for a million pounds and said he didn't think you should lend money to family as it causes problems. This really upset her as there's no way she wouldn't pay it back but she assumed it was too large a sum for him so dropped it. I just can't get my head around this if I saw my child struggling and I had 150k sat doing nothing I would give it to them in a second.

Also, 15 years ago my grandma (dad's mum) died and left everything to me and my sister. She didn't own a home so this was about 25k. I thought it was mean of her not to give it to my dad when he has no money (maybe she knew he did). So we said we wanted him to have it and he accepted. I am now so mad that I did this.

Mum has been deteriorating for the last year and has needed several house adaptations and they really need an adapted bathroom as she can no longer get in the shower.He has been adamant that he cant afford it so I priced it up to see.if I could purchase it but it was out of my reach but been applying for grants and ringing the council all the time for advice. I also purchased wheelchairs, Zimmer frame, crutches, handrails etc. An hour before I found this all out I had decided once they get a carer in I will pay for a weekly cleaner for them and pretend that the council are paying for it.

I am so, so angry about his tight-arsedness and all the stress and worry he has put me through, not just over the last year but always worrying if they have enough to put the heating on every winter etc.

Both me and my sister haven't had a penny off them since 18 apart from birthday and xmas. We always get £50 at xmas and if they ever give it as a cheque I don't cash it as too worried about them going without.
I'm also so upset he wouldn't lend money to my sister when he knows what a bad situation she is in.

He's in his 70s and don't know what he is planning to do with all this money but surely the 'rainy day' time is now.

Are you sure he's getting carers allowance? That should stop once he receives the state pension. Also your mother would need to be entitled to PIP/ DLA or AA before he was eligible.

How lovely are you and your sister to have passed on your inheritance. My DM left considerable sums to her grandchildren. There is no way that I as the daughter would have accepted anything from my children. Your father shouldn't have accepted this from you.

I get it's not about the money but about you both showing the utmost generosity and integrity and not being treated equally back.

Continuing healthcare funding maybe an option if the terminal diagnosis has a short expected life span (sorry OP). If it’s likely to be stable and continue for sometime then healthcare won’t fund. Definitely worth asking for an assessment though. If your mum is at home then the district nurse can arrange it. I would really recommend looking into hospices in your area as a PP said upthread. They are amazing places.

My mum and dad aren’t rich by any means but they are always helping me out with things, clothes for dd, extra money, asking us on holiday with them. I’m a single mum on a low income and they are lovely. I really don’t understand the point of money sitting there when people who have real needs are living a poor quality of life.

When my bio dad died he was relatively young and still in employment. His widow got his work lump sum, house paid off, widows pension, insurance policy to pay for my half brothers uni fees. I got a metal tankard with my dad’s name on it. She moved the man she had been having an affair with whilst my dad was dying into his home within 6 months and married him within a year. Some people are just shits.

Thanks flowergirl78.

Please make your dad pay for everything that he and your mum need that won't be covered by ss and shame him in to it if need be. My dad would have been in his mid-70's now so the same age as your dad. When I hear of this behaviour type with people of this age group, I put it down to living in post ww2 rationing conditions. I don't understand it, my dad wasn't brought up in poverty and his parents helped him out very generously in their life times. For some reason he didn't want to be the same and was always very tight - you know the type of father who would tut & huff at the ice cream van and guilt you into asking for the smallest ice lolly available and he even asked me if I could wash and reuse my tampons as they are too expensive to buy!!!

With regards to carers costs, we have one for my Fil and he pays about £36 per half hour - we are in south Hampshire but we are currently looking into changing agencies as we're unhappy with the agency itself not the carers. It's worth pointing out to your dad that a nursing/care home will cost more than carers coming into the home. When Mil went into a care home last year, the weekly charge was about £850 per week and Fil had to pay £50 p/w due to us picking a home that was slightly above ss limits - their savings were just below the threshold for ss help with fees. Obviously, your dad will be fully liable due to savings although only half will be attributed to your mum. The home we picked wasn't the cheapest or most expensive but we picked it as it was closest to Fil.

Hope this helps some. My thoughts are with you while you care for your mum and 'manage' your dad xx

Hope this helps

Hey, not sure if this will help or not, but I am in exactly the same situation. I nearly fell through the floor when I saw my Grandparents had money. Same situation he had a low paying job and a work pension and she never worked so they can only have managed this through saving hard. My Gran has dementia and my Granddad had no idea as he had never dealt with the finances. He would not / will not spend a penny of it. They desperately need a new bathroom and I would certainly say home help. I honestly think its an age thing and they are worried about spending the money. I told my Granddad to get a new bathroom and he said he can't because what if they need the money for an emergency. Not sure what kind of emergency is that expensive.

Anyway I know it is difficult I just wanted to let you know it's no uncommon

I guess the only comfort in this for you is that you're not alone in having narcisstic parents who pull shit like this.
In my 30's i realised that my parents had enough money to build 2 new homes abroad, they now get the rental income from them.
Money accumulated whilst we were brought up on the poverty line.
That money now only gets 'shared' with the golden children and their offspring, one of the siblings still lives at home in his 30's and is used to pay all the bills and fund their lifestyle.
They don't see this though as their far too enmeshed in that toxic dynamic.

The one gift we can take from this experience is that we know we can do it all by ourselves, come hell or high water.
We're not getting the parents we want or need, and it's best we know that now so we can go forward knowing exactly where we stand with them.

Don't spend a penny more on them.
They don't deserve to call on any 'moral' duty and have you ferry them about, using up your time and energy.
Just tell them they need to sort it all out themselves, and make sure they get their wills/funeral costs covered from their assets too, including legal fees for the solicitors who will handle their estate after their death.

You know this elephant in the room is going to blow at some point soon, so take some time out to center yourselves before you have that conversation...and don't fall for the "but we were going to leave this all for you as an inheritance" bullshit they will no doubt try at some point to deflect their guilt - if they have the capacity to feel any.

re continuing care she is liekly to need a mixture of nursing and care help - the nursung side of things should be free. as someone mentioned check out their local hospice they are usually amazing and deal with this sort of stuff all the time ....
if not macmillan and in some areas age uk....we paid a lot less than £36 for care in norfolk but it soon mounts up...think in £20's

re your mum and dad - just do what you need to do for yourself really..

you dont say what needs if any your dad has - he should be sortiing this out anyway - do not pay for their bathroom /equipment yourself get sservices in for an assessment - your dad may well listen to them rather than you.....

So your sister and yourself handed over 25,000 15 years ago and web your sister asked for 10,000 recently which she would repay, your father said No?

Absolutely appalling and completely unforgiveable IMO.

Remove yourself from this toxic situation it will only get worse. Shocked that he would take that money from you and your sister. Let them both get on with it and don't waste anymore of your valuable life on them. My parents used inheritance as leverage and I told them in front of my daughter I didn't want them to leave me anything I was not prepared for them to blackmail me in any way shape or form. My dad was not a nice person and I didn't go to his funeral and my mother died last week and I won't be going to hers. My sister will inherit everything and I am pleased for her as she put up with them and I went very low contact. The way I see it she has earnt it and I wish her all the best. I have come away with my head held high and my integrity intact and I am happy with my decision. They were toxic parents who played people off against each other. No way would I have ever treated my daughter the way i was treated.. People excuse old people because of thier age but when they have been toxic all thier life I am sorry but there is no excuse.

Thanks to everyone for their advice I have been on the phone all day and I think I have found a carer to do half an hour in the mornings, wouldn't agree to pay for anything else. Glad I dont live down South its 10 here for half an hour.

Spoke to the social worker who has been allocated mum's case and she sounds very on the ball so hopefully she will be able to push him to get the support mum needs. We have been referred to McMillan so hope they can advise more on continuing care.
Haven't mentioned grandma's inheritance yet but he has been mumbling to himself today that he should give me and DSIS some money rather than keeping it but doubt anything will come of that.

That sounds awful and I am sorry your parents are so tight with money. They should be ashamed.

The money will likely all be spent on care fees eventually so it was well worth them being tight in their lifetime!

What a shame. All his money is going to be drained by social care, when he could have helped his children with the money/invested it/enjoyed it.

The last bit was a joke. By being so tight their money will be eaten up by care fees which could been spent giving their children some.money.

What a dreadful man; his wife is terminally ill and he still won’t spend money to make her comfortable, you should ask him outright ‘what exactly are you keeping all the £ for?’
And to refuse your sister after taking her inheritance is disgusting, I’d cut him off, do fuck all for him and get your ££ back.

So sorry to hear your news @flowergirl78, but please speak to your GP about this. Those terminally ill with Cancer do not have to self fund. Im not sure if that might help. As for your dad, please do not get yourself into debt paying for the costs, especially when you know how tight your dad is. He sounds horrendous. Your mum will still get the care she deserves. Your father will never change.

@EleanorReally is correct, please do ask for a full assessment, Macmillan Nurses etc. The care is free, The OT will organise aids required to adapt your mums house. The carers should be sorted by the District Nursing Team, but any additional costs can be met by the Carer's Allowance.

As for your dad, get your sister to ask for the £12,500 back from her GM. Why the hell should she ask for a loan when half the money is her's to begin with.

And please look after yourself. Once the Care Package come in i think this will ease the burden.

@MothralovesGojira my God i am angry for you, that is shocking.

My mum is a bit like this. Has shot loads of cash and just hordes it even though the only
Possible thing it will ever be spent on is care, something which she hates the thought of!

What a shock. Agree with PP at the very least "your" inheritance you gave to him should be given back. The issue is if SS get involved they may see this as deprivation of assets if he's only giving it to you now so you need to make sure this is documented.

Similar situation here but I am now POA. Its been a long time coming. Literally hoarding money and pretending to be poor. Living in a hovel. It seems to be men as well who behave like this.

Maybe its a generational thing and these people will literally die out

My mother needed carers for the last few years of her life. She died last year. She also had more than the DSS limit, so we paid all the carers invoices. Please check all invoices before paying as we found multiple errors, wrong hours, hours duplicated, extra hours charged on most invoices. This continued for at least 6 months until finally the agency actually started checking the invoice before sending it out. I dread to think how much NHS is overcharged by these agencies.
What we also discovered was that regarding your parents money, the DSS look at all expenses going back 10-15 years to establish if outgoings are regular or if just a means to hide money, thus resulting in DSS paying for the care earlier. We had considered mum giving us lump sums as her and my dad had saved all their lives to ensure that we got a reasonable inheritance. But as she hadn't done this regularly before needing care, it would be excluded by DSS in their calculations. They don't force your parents to sell their home, but they will put a lien on it after the cash has been used up and that is the only remaining asset. So when it is sold, they get their share first to cover all their costs.

What would he say if you ask him for your Grandma's money back?

Would he look sheepish and mumble something about having to check the finances (and never come back to you!).

Some people are just incredibly selfish. They always want firt dibs of everything, hang back when its their time to pay and think no one notices!

I would ask for your grandmother's money back , too ... but make sure you can document it was 'your' money so the transfer isn't questioned by the council at this point if care costs are needed

I'd worry it's too late for that, since for good or ill OP willingly gave her DPs the money. However if mum's terminal it's true that care should be fully funded, so hopefully it won't matter

@flowergirl78 concerning the funding for your mum's care, please make sure you get proper advice on this - in other words not via Social Services, who usually put ticking their own boxes way above the family's needs

Age Concern can be good for this, as can CAB - and maybe MacMillan could have an input too?

I fear that you stating that this is your DSIS money is not correct.

You gave to him with no notes stating it was to be paid back and the selfish git took it. What sort of parent does that and when your sister asked for money refused it because it was now 'his'.

Have your parents made wills? If they haven't that might be a blessing, if they have (or rather he has!) then expect the unexpected.

He sounds totally self absorbed