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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DD desperately upset about Ex injunction -- what to do?

57 replies

thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:04

My ex is subject to a non-molestation order after a long series of abusive stuff including fake suicide threats etc, culminating in a death threat earlier this year which was the final straw and which led to him being arrested and charged. I was granted the non-molestation order in May for a year. He has since breached the order, was charged and found guilty and was sentenced to community service etc.

Ex is allowed contact with my DD through a third party only (in this case my childminder, who has some previous experience of this and is totally reliable and trustworthy). Ex is constantly pushing my DD to get me to "allow" direct contact to take place (ie without the supervision of the childminder, which in practice means I would have to do a handover to him as there's no-one else who can). I've held firm on this until now even though my DD is applying lots of pressure to be allowed to see him. He's also done a lot of unhelpful and spiteful stuff such as making spurious allegations to social services about me.

Childminder is off on holiday and can't provide the support so there's currently no way for DD to see her dad for a couple of weeks. Technically the non-mol doesn't apply to me so there's nothing to stop me handing her over to him for an hour's contact and picking her up afterwards. I'm obviously loathe to do this, partly for my own security, partly because of the precedent it sets with him, and partly because my lawyer has advised me not to as it could undermine the injunction if anything happened in the future.

My DD had a meltdown this evening about pretty much everything and when I got to the bottom of it it was basically about wanting to see her dad. She phoned him and he knowing I was in the room in the background begged me to allow her to see him. My DD was then desperately desperately upset and railed at me for blocking her from seeing her dad.

I'm absolutely at my wits' end. I know allowing contact to happen is the wrong thing to do but I'm terrified of damaging my daughter -- she already thinks that I'm the bad guy and that I'm cruelly keeping her away from her dad. If I block contact again she will hate me forever.

Should I cave just this once and chaperone her to a meeting? Is there any way of moving this forward constructively? I can't see how I can justify doing this but I also can't live with the guilt of what its doing to her and seeing her so upset. I've always been absolutely determined for our relationship not to have an impact on her and for us to put her welfare over our own.

OP posts:
endofthelinefinally · 24/07/2019 22:06

How old is dd?

thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:08

endoftheline she's 8

OP posts:
RunsForGummyBears · 24/07/2019 22:09

Is there anyone else that can help facilitate contact?

Csleeptime · 24/07/2019 22:11

How old is your dd? I have no experience, but if your lawyer says don't then don't. If she is old enough you may have to explain why to dd if you are being made out to be the bad guy and you may lose your relatio ship with her. Don't let him make you the bad guy

Csleeptime · 24/07/2019 22:12

He is manipulating an 8 year old. Is it best he sees her at all? He is causing her emotional harm and being very selfish.

FiveAcorns · 24/07/2019 22:13

Can you contact a contact centre in your area? Some of them have handover facilities. Otherwise I’d agree to handover somewhere very public ideally with CCTV. Outside a police station perhaps, if there’s absolutely no one (friend? Neighbour) who can help.

thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:13

Gummy not really. The only other person who has previously stepped in is having a major life crisis and I can't ask at the moment. I don't have any family locally (and they wouldn't be able to stomach seeing him if they did). I don't feel its something I can ask other school mums to do at such short notice - they've all got enough on their plate with school holidays and looking after their own kids. Social services do offer this service I believe but it would have to be at a contact centre which I couldn't get to and wouldn't be available at the notice he is asking for.

OP posts:
Thatsnotmyname4291 · 24/07/2019 22:14

She’s 8. You’re the adult here and although she desperately wants to see him, you have no idea what crap he is feeding her in order to make her pressurise you.

Stand firm. The one off will turn into ‘but you did it last time’ and it sets a precedent.

He is bullying you through her.

thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:15

Csleeptime I agree. I would much prefer for him to have no contact at all. My lawyer sought to have the injunction to cover my daughter as well but this was rejected by a judge.

OP posts:
TheBrockmans · 24/07/2019 22:15

Can he propose someone who would be willing to do the handover? Put the emphasis onto him to find someone acceptable to both of you. Would any parents of her school friends be willing to help?

Fatted · 24/07/2019 22:16

If HE is that arsed about seeing His daughter then HE can go to see a solicitor and get something put in place. A non molestation order usually has provision for contact via a solicitor for child contact.

You should not be putting yourself in this position. It will seriously undermine any subsequent breaches and the sentence he receives for that.

If you are involved with social services then I would reach out to them to facilitate contact before going yourself.

Smiler88 · 24/07/2019 22:17

Stand firm, hes manipulating you through her and its working. You may have to explain to why though so she understands

MarianaMoatedGrange · 24/07/2019 22:18

Your DD is only in a state because your ex is manipulating her. Under no circumstances should you undo the systems put in place to protect you. Tell your DD she can see her father when the child minder returns and not before. Be firm, and take her out to help take her mind off it.

I don't know why he's allowed to phone her tbh. He's clearly unhinged.

thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:19

Fatted I'm not really in contact with social services: he made a complaint to them which they decided not to take forward. I'm not crazy about having them involved for multiple reasons and my lawyer has also said its not in my best interests to have them involved.

I would dearly love just to tell him to take a running jump but I'm worried about how she will take it.

I've always refused to badmouth him to her and I haven't told her about the death threats or the nature of the injunction - have just said a court has said daddy can't see mummy because daddy said he wanted to hurt mummy. She thinks - at his prompting -- that its in my gift to just change the rules. I can't really explain to her why I can't do that without discussing the death threat with her and if I do that I will ruin their relationship. It's a lose lose for me.

OP posts:
thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:21

MarianaMoatedGrange I totally agree and I think its insane that the judge has allowed it but allowed it he has. And I have to facilitate it. The only way to change this is to seek to extend the injunction which would cost me thousands of pounds and success is not guaranteed.

OP posts:
MarianaMoatedGrange · 24/07/2019 22:22

have just said a court has said daddy can't see mummy because daddy said he wanted to hurt mummy

Keep repeating that, and the fact she can see 'daddy' when the childminder returns.

Haffdonga · 24/07/2019 22:29

You can explain simply that the judge made the rule that you can't see him. Say dd I'm really sorry but I am not allowed to see daddy. I would be breaking the law if I didn't follow the rules that the judge made. I know it is very sad but you can see him in 2 weeks.

Then listen to her hurt and anger. Don't try to minimise or pretend it's not a shit situation for her. Hear her and stay firm.

tolerable · 24/07/2019 22:30

have you considered womens aid.they may be able to advise you?

Notarayofsunshine · 24/07/2019 22:34

Hi OP, I was in your exact situation over a decade ago, non molestation order following DV and threats to kill. Then there was a prohibitive steps order, malicious accusations, you name it he did it.

Do not deviate from the court order / injunction under and circumstance,it’s there for very good reason and do not give into the emotional blackmail. Easier said than done but you will be saving yourself a life time of angst if you even enter into any negotiation outside of an official court setting. There is no room for negotiation with these types of personalities and the goal posts will always be changed.

Every time there is a change to the agreed routine however, it needs to be agreed through the correct channels. It’s as straightforward as that.

Dealing with the fall out from your daughter will not be easy but that damage caused by an inconsistent, cockwomble is far more devastating that just being there and being the consistent one. I would suggest building as strong a support work as you possibly can and by whichever means as it’s a rocky road. My DC is coming out the other side but only by the grace of god and the rock that is my DCs counsellor.

lilmishap · 24/07/2019 22:40

BE HONEST.
HE is responsible for seeing her, you are not responsible for making it happen. HE is responsible for finding a willing person not you, it's not easy but she is old enough to be told the truth and she has to deal with him for the rest of her life so give her the tools/skills/thinking she needs to do that now.

Remind her that you hate seeing her sad and you wish it was possible for her dad to just knock on the door but he made that impossible because this country has laws about acceptable behaviour and we have to follow them. Empathise with her by telling her you are sorry this is happening BUT DO NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS BEHAVIOUR

Follow up by reminding her he loves her (even if the words stick in your throat) and he is an adult who will find a solution by himself because he loves her, do this because you are her mother and she needs reassurance. Not because it is your fault. It is not

Step right back and stop giving her the impression that his time with her is your responsibility, It is NOT your responsibility it is his.

I found that telling my son how I felt when I was let down followed by reminding him his dad loves him helped him to see us as separate entities. His dad still tries the 'your mum makes it hard' nonsense and my 6 yr old lets it go in one ear and straight out the other, all he cares about is seeing both of us, but he now accepts his dad is not always reliable. It hurts me but it is the truth and it is my sons life

You're not helping her long term by giving in to him you are just showing her that you are responsible for everything daddy says you are and thats a fucked up life lesson.

He is her dad and you can't save her from that so start empowering her by letting her deal with him in as healthy a way as is possible, she'll be doing this for the rest of her life. You won't because he is not your dad

Notarayofsunshine · 24/07/2019 22:43

lilmishap wise words

thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:53

notarayofsunshine thanks: that is wise advice and I really appreciate it. And thanks to everyone else who has taken the trouble to consider and post, you've all made me feel stronger and more resolved.

It's just that it seems seductively easy to just drop it all and "make friends" with him again. It would delight her in the short term. I know the abuse and manipulation would start again and I know its not the right thing to do. But every now and then I just wonder if it would be worth it to keep her happy. When she's so miserable about it it makes me feel so bad that I haven't been able to protect her from it.

Thanks to all of you.

OP posts:
thepeopleversuswork · 24/07/2019 22:55

lilmishap yes this is interesting: its as if she thinks of us as the same person. She said earlier that we had both made her scared and I felt so bad about this, even though I know its not my fault. I just wish I could have done something to shield her from that fear.

Someone tell me that it does get better...

OP posts:
MarianaMoatedGrange · 24/07/2019 22:58

lilmishaps wonderful, wise post made me cry. Perfectly correct - if he wants to see dd that badly, he can arrange it himself through a solicitor, but I strongly suspect he is just using her to control YOU, and will not take the necessary steps.

lilmishap · 24/07/2019 23:03

I've heard "I hate you" and "I want my dad" "why don't you just let him pleeeeaase.." so many times and it hurts like fuck
It is hard to be the rock, the consistent boring 'non daddy adoring', law abiding, seemingly unsympathetic parent, but she needs ONE stable parent and it's you.

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