Manipulative sister is absolutely doing my head in

[Haggismom]

Please, someone talk me off the anger ledge...
My youngest sibling has over the years morphed into the nightmare sister from Outnumbered. When she was young, twenties, she was a traveling, cool, hippy chick (her words) and she was often skint and staying at my house. She bonded with my kids, was best pals with my DH and we took her on holidays with us. Then she met a lad she liked and settled down to become phase two - the perfect wife and mother. From her position of closeness to my family, she would freely tell me how to cook, balance my work life, who i should vote for, how I should treat my DH and shared gems like instructing me to master shadow puppetry with my kids to get them to sleep. Her relationship, kids, job are always fresh and special. If something does go wrong it's a hilarious story with her at the centre fabulously fixing it all back up. She discusses stuff with my mum and other DS without mentioning it to me. They then talk to me assuming I already know. She phones my older kids and pumps them for info, in a flowery way, of course, on what I'm doing but never a word to me. I spoke to her about this last year and she initially shouted me down then came back an hour later full of apologies and how she had decided to change. I realised she quite liked feeling she had a new wonderful task ahead.
In a nutshell, I feel in her quest to be best aunty, wife, mother in the universe she has pissed me off to the extent I wish she'd disappear.. She recently phoned my eldest DD while she was at her prom and wouldn't get off the phone to let her enjoy herself. Next day on Facebook it was posts about what an incredible bond she and my DD have. She barged into a touching birthday message my other DD put on FB for me and made the thread about her and how much she and my DD loved each other. She couldn't stand that one of my own kids would want to say something nice about me instead of her. I feel sidelined within my own family. The kids think she is crazy but love the attention. My DH rolls his eyes and avoids her. Meantime she's made sure I have minimal relationship with her kids. Doesn't much acknowledge presents I send them or tell me about how they are doing etc. Years ago she left her newborn howling in his cot while she made my kids a sandwich 'because they'd get hungry otherwise' . I was on the way out to lunch with them, yet I stood there and let her do it. Her DH is a nice guy but lets her do what she wants for a quiet life.
I know she's needy and I should be the bigger person but I can't fake this BS any longer. Me getting angry at her would seem to the outside world like I'm kicking the tooth fairy or kneeing Santa. Her favourite phrase is 'woop woop', ffs. Thanks - I know this isn't a major problem in the scheme of things but it's gnawing at me.

Grey rock her!

Hey! Thought I’d come at this from another perspective - although I do totally get what you’re coming from in being annoyed, I think I may be a bit like your sister. I don’t have any children but I do have 3 nephews who I take on holiday and post about a lot on social media and I am closer to them now than I am with their mum. I suppose somebody could look at me and the way I am with the kids as very annoying (judging from all comments..!) but from my perspective I just love them a lot. Also I feel like my sister and I used to be very, very close and that changed as we got older and our life paths changed. For me bonding with my sisters children is sort of a stand in for bonding with her - sometimes it’s awkward how much we have grown apart and I can try and sort of paper over that by being the best aunt I can be to her children as of course children are a lot easier to develop relationships with and there’s no awkward dynamic. Wonder if this could be how your sister feels?

OP, your kids are realising that your sister isn't quite the full shilling and are humouring her. Teenagers aren't into being best friends with neurotic aunties, they are just being polite. I learned one thing about her ilk, if you mentally step away, they cannot compete with you.

Well haggis I do have two sisters 😱😂😂😂

I can't tell if she's actually self involved, or if you just find her personality irritating? None of these examples sound huge or terrible... E.g. sometimes you do have to briefly leave a baby crying in order to do something.

What's she like if something bad happens to you? E.g. if you had a period of illness, would she be there for you?

Basically can't tell if she's a bit narcissistic or if you have a personality clash/typical sibling rivalry & resentment where you are actually both quite nice people, just different.

I have a very similar dynamic with my DSis - spookily similar childhood experiences and role to the OP.

Mine is total narc - and would stand on anyone’s neck to get ahead and literally takes what she wants. She is manipulative and exploitative. Life and soul - seems like everyone loves her - but others have been stung.

Every single interaction she will deliver a personal slight like a sniper - just subtle enough for others not to quite register and for me to be a bit stunned and confused so that I am unable to call her on it in the moment.

Total bully, envious and competitive around money, looks and social stuff.

I spend my life out manoeuvring her - often need the help of my DH and DCs as she goes around the houses as well. I am LC and grey rock with her - this sent her into overdrive for a while which was exhausting. Then she will “forget” about me for a bit - some respite - and then it starts again.

I literally have a panic attack if her number comes up on my phone and I have had to hide in my own home when she just turns up.

I keep myself out of punching distance. I know she has a v fragile ego and in many areas of her life is, despite the massive show off stuff, underneath will have low self esteem due to a v significant childhood trauma. But I have spoken to her about getting therapy to work through it (as I have done) but she just attacked me on that front also. I seem to be the main target of her attacks in the family. I will not rise to her bait as she would just turn everything around and point the finger at me for being “unreasonable”. She also calls me boring and interferes with my children directly. She did also have a pick on one of my other sisters for a time until she just called her out and told her to “Stop it or I am leaving” a few times - she knew what she meant and beyond an eye roll she behaved herself.

She did also have a pick on one of my other sisters for a time until she just called her out and told her to “Stop it or I am leaving” a few times - she knew what she meant and beyond an eye roll she behaved herself.

Why can't you do the same, @another20? Can you stop her getting to your kids?

I presume your kids are teens? Or older?

Surely, if you have a good relationship with them, you can talk to them and make them understand that they shouldn't look at their Aunt through rose coloured specs. Try and explain to them how they are being used.

Sag because I get paralysed in the moment as I am terrified of her flipping and humiliating me in public - I have seen how fast her brain works with a deep tongue lashing of others. Or she just does the usual bully line of “it was only a joke - you are so over sensitive - no sense of humour - so boring” etc. In some ways I don’t want to give her the pleasure of seeing how she has provoked me. But I do agree I need the balls to deal with her in the moment.

My children are late teens and although they appreciate the “fun” stuff they are always on their guard as she is constantly looking for them to babysit her younger children.

I am also worried that the time I do call her on something I will over react emotionally as it will be response to years of pent up anger and I will look foolish.

@another20 so tell her on your own terms i.e. not in public

And when she berates you in public, trust me, she’s only humiliating herself, not you.

Could you have a stock of phrases to use for next time? Or could you just get up and leave as soon as she starts on you? No explanations, just get up and go.

And you need to be stronger for your kids, even if they’re late teens. Tell her they will not be babysitting. Find your anger!

Yes I think that a sigh, an eye roll and then physically moving out of her presence would be a good start that I could cope with.

My kids don’t babysit as she first asks me - I say that they are not available - she then goes to them direct - each and every time - and they say No I’m busy - had to adapt to that as if they said can’t because I am doing x she would come back and say OK come after x. It’s v weird as we don’t even live nearby, she pays them and has loads of teenagers she knows well in her own town to do it.....so I just think that it another route into bugging, controlling, interacting with me.

Sorry didn’t mean to derail your thread OP. What I do want to say though is our childhood set ups may be similar as I ended up parenting my younger siblings - maybe they see us as mother figure or a threat -
they seems to need our attention and seek it negatively. I do have some compassion for my sister - she is emotionally stuck at aged 3 when our trauma happened and I view her unfiltered, paranoid, controlling behaviours in this light. So this might explain her behaviours but it doesn’t excuse them - and so it goes on.....exhausting.....so LC, grey rock is what I have been doing - calling her out I don’t feel able to do yet and is often counterproductive with narcs - but I will get up and move calmly next time as Sag suggests.

This would drive me completely insane too. I know exactly the traits you describe - that super charismatic, super manipulative, all about me but it's not my fault because I'm so deeply insecure (complete BS IMO, we're all insecure to a point, we don't all use it as an excuse for treating others badly) ... Reminds me of someone I used to be friends with.

I would find dealing with this so upsetting and draining of my energy I think I'd just try to find ways of achieving 'damage limitation' - i.e. reducing her involvement in your life in little ways. You said your DM tends not to pull her up on anything because one wrong word can send her off - this seems totally in keeping with everything else you've said. So don't bring that trouble on yourself, but try to be a bit strategic, so as you can reduce her contact with you and your kids, without any apparent conflict. Temporarily at least. I know that sounds really vague but if there are little things you can do, while keeping a friendly face on the surface, it might make you feel a little more in control of the situation. Like if she's going to call over, maybe make up an excuse that you're doing something ... Getting a bit more space from her might also help you get better perspective on the situation ...

You can do all that and still love her. It can be hard with a family member, and in your circumstances maybe you feel more responsibility towards her than others might, which is understandable but it might be that she's exploiting this to some degree.

I think you have to address this because it sounds like you're not getting the respect you deserve from her (that anyone deserves) and if you don't get that, it can affect your own self-esteem, and things will get worse.

I think therapy is a good idea.

Hope that makes some sense, didn't mean to go on so much.