Manipulative sister is absolutely doing my head in

[Haggismom]

Please, someone talk me off the anger ledge...
My youngest sibling has over the years morphed into the nightmare sister from Outnumbered. When she was young, twenties, she was a traveling, cool, hippy chick (her words) and she was often skint and staying at my house. She bonded with my kids, was best pals with my DH and we took her on holidays with us. Then she met a lad she liked and settled down to become phase two - the perfect wife and mother. From her position of closeness to my family, she would freely tell me how to cook, balance my work life, who i should vote for, how I should treat my DH and shared gems like instructing me to master shadow puppetry with my kids to get them to sleep. Her relationship, kids, job are always fresh and special. If something does go wrong it's a hilarious story with her at the centre fabulously fixing it all back up. She discusses stuff with my mum and other DS without mentioning it to me. They then talk to me assuming I already know. She phones my older kids and pumps them for info, in a flowery way, of course, on what I'm doing but never a word to me. I spoke to her about this last year and she initially shouted me down then came back an hour later full of apologies and how she had decided to change. I realised she quite liked feeling she had a new wonderful task ahead.
In a nutshell, I feel in her quest to be best aunty, wife, mother in the universe she has pissed me off to the extent I wish she'd disappear.. She recently phoned my eldest DD while she was at her prom and wouldn't get off the phone to let her enjoy herself. Next day on Facebook it was posts about what an incredible bond she and my DD have. She barged into a touching birthday message my other DD put on FB for me and made the thread about her and how much she and my DD loved each other. She couldn't stand that one of my own kids would want to say something nice about me instead of her. I feel sidelined within my own family. The kids think she is crazy but love the attention. My DH rolls his eyes and avoids her. Meantime she's made sure I have minimal relationship with her kids. Doesn't much acknowledge presents I send them or tell me about how they are doing etc. Years ago she left her newborn howling in his cot while she made my kids a sandwich 'because they'd get hungry otherwise' . I was on the way out to lunch with them, yet I stood there and let her do it. Her DH is a nice guy but lets her do what she wants for a quiet life.
I know she's needy and I should be the bigger person but I can't fake this BS any longer. Me getting angry at her would seem to the outside world like I'm kicking the tooth fairy or kneeing Santa. Her favourite phrase is 'woop woop', ffs. Thanks - I know this isn't a major problem in the scheme of things but it's gnawing at me.

That'd do my head in. Would it do any good to sit her down and explain that she's inserted herself between you and your children, and are damaging the relationship you have with them? Is she smart enough, or have enough control, to accept that and modify her behaviour? I'd get very fucking antsy if someone was playing 'mum' to my children. They have a mother, so fuck off. You need to pull her up every single time.

Did you tell her it was inappropriate to phone your daughter at the debs? Did you tell her it was inappropriate to interfere in your birthday message? If she's in a group that can see all your messages, take yourself off and form a group with just you, husband and daughters. Don't let her add herself to the group. Tell her she has to back off from your relationship with your direct family. She's smothering you, for her own benefit.

Agree with Sunfull
She sounds jealous of you. She's jealous of your children, she's jealous when she sees you with her children. The leaving you out of things with your sister and mum is her trying to make you jealous. It's sad really but I understand the frustration.

She needs to start a blog and get her fake wonderfulness out to a wider audience.

She’s quite clearly a narcissist with a fragile ego. You need strict boundaries that are firmly enforced. My advice would be to seek the help of a counsellor trained in this area. They will help you communicate with her. I would firstly recommend blocking her from your families social media. That’s the first step. That stuff is like a red flag to a bull to a narcissist. Grey rock all the way. Do not advertise your life on social media. Delete all of that. You need to start having a life and activities with your own kids not on social media that she has no knowledge or anything to do with. Start reinforcing your own relationship bonds. That’s how you win this.

I think this must be a youngest sister thing. My youngest sister is very similar. Always insists she is the favourite Auntie despite my kids never saying this. Before she had kids she would insist on making a massive deal of playing with them and then remind everyone of the time she did. She always says she’s much better then her friends at keeping in touch with her family, regardless of whether it’s true or not.
She doesn’t say whoop whoop but since having her child she refers to her as ‘princess name’ and asks us to do the same...
... the way I have coped is by distance. I’m waiting for inevitable accusations from her about how much time she spent with my children verses how much I spend with hers, but I can live with that for a peaceful life (most of the time).

Talented also sounds like my sister, are you my sister 😂😂😂

Martha - just Googled Woop Woop. I think I'll pass on your one way ticket,thanks! Lol. Although the peace would be nice.
Rhubarb, you are right, she is deeply insecure herself. She tells me this on the few occasions I have puled her up. She then talks for hours about how awful it is for her to have no self esteem. Once again the subject is her and her again. My biggest trigger is the kids. She rates how 'fun' people are with her own kids and talks about how most folk are boring with children. She thinks I am - she told my mum this. So she revels in being the wonderful, crazy aunty and I'd put money on her thinking my kids love her more than they love me. (this is ridiculous, I know)
With my other sibling's kids, if she hears I've sent them a present or have been in touch, she launches an all out fun fest on them to get back to the number one spot! Even the kids find this bamboozling. I do need to talk to a therapist about this. We had a difficult childhood, the three of us, but my sister is keeping the stress going with her antics. I hate it.

Talented and NC - could we all be related? Haha

Haggis

I intended for you to buy the one way for your DS

Big old narcissist. You can tell because they always turn someone close to them into the competition. She competes for YOUR childrens affection amongst other things and she gets info on you from other sources when you aren't telling her enough for her to suck you dry.

I wish I could downplay it as insecurity ect...but I've seen it first hand several times and it is not that. It is jealousy and jealousy from a toxic person. Start telling her no and you'll soon see.

Short of picking up your family and moving halfway across the country (I would) though I fail to see what you can do really other than try and cut down contact with her yourself at least so that she can't get under your skin as much. The only thing is they can sense people pulling away and that might make her extra pissy. Catch twenty two I guess. I am not normally a fan of the 'grey rock' technique but, it might be your best bet here.

Siblings relationships can get complex, and if she has changed dramatically I wonder what the dynamics with her Dh are. I say this as my own sibling has changed and turned competitive and pretty sour at times due to their own relationship (as opposed to anything happening between us).

Millie, your story is so familiar. My sister was manically 'fun' before she had kids. Now she's a mum she has a bigger audience. I feel I've never had the chance to get to know her kids as she'd elbow me out of the way whenever I tried to talk/play with them. Then she'd take over and everyone has to watch it being done 'right'. It's exhausting making sure she's getting the right amounts of 'well dones' and 'you're so funnys'.
I'm far-ish from her geographically and, like you mentioned, I've had her point out how much time is/isnt spent on her kids. She moans at my mum that I'm uncaring and tells me that our mum is uncaring.
Weird thing is, she's the life and soul of any party and lots of folk love her. She's funny and can be good company. I can't be arsed with her, and her shenanigans, though.

Hi Woman, I totally agree that my problem is nowhere near a bereavement.
I know I've to get a grip. Lots of solid advice and laughs on here today for me, though, which has been much appreciated.

Oh my, I could have written this. We've gone NC. The relief is immense, the manipulation, selfishness and neediness were just too much.

Tell her that you wonder when she gets down time, it must be exhausting to always be performing for the public.
That your children just adore quiet PJ days when relaxation is the aim of the game, and that they tell you those are the very best of days and sometimes you feel like they have to be bribed to go out. .

Sure, it isn't a bereavement but when womanlikemelm lives with a narcissist trying to steal her life and no one else being able to see it for a long time, THEN she can complain that you are making a fuss out of nothing. Cause you aren't. Your feelings are valid, know that much at least.

How do you think her kids feel living in that circus, especially being sidelined by their own mother in favour of your kids?

Ask your kids how they think it would feel to be one of her kids. Try to get them to have a bit of empathy.

Thanks, Tea.

Why is someone talking about a bereavement? Problems don't stop at bereavements

OP, what kind of relationship do you want? Do you want low contact, no contact? I know preferably she would just be a sibling who doesn't do this crap but looks like that's not going to happen.

She sounds bloody irritating and has the potential to do some damage to relationships in future.

Sounds like the double of my narc sister!

I've got a few narcs in my immediate family and it's only when i look back that i see how much damage they've done - to family relationships and most importantly the kids.

Narcs don't 'love' - they either idealise or devalue.
They repeat this cycle in stages.
She's idealising the kids and devaluing the other adults.

Long-term, if you leave her to carry on as she is without putting down some strong boundaries she WILL cause serious damage to the relationship between you and your kids - especially as they grow older/teens.

In my family, the kids cottoned on pretty quickly that their parents were 'powerless'.
The kids learnt how to play off their parents against my narc sibling, and my narc sibling knew how to play Divide & Conquer.
She succeeded in that because my other siblings/family wouldn't stand up to her.
At first they didn't see it.
When they did they couldn't assert themselves or lay boundaries and follow through with consequences.
The wider family always took Narcs side when she started her 'poor me' act, and they pressured my other siblings to 'keep the peace'.
So today, i have nephews and nieces in their teens who have almost zero respect for their parents, who are going hideously off the rails - and the only person they listen to is the Narc.....and she plays them against the rest of the family like a well tuned fiddle.
She controls the whole family and their lives (to a large extent) via using the dc.
The saddest thing is that she doesn't actually love the kids. They're just convenient 'weapons' for her to use and boost her ego and sense of superiority.
Even sadder - she's never bothered with the two youngest ones. They are autistic like me and see right through her bullshit and can't be played.
They, like me, have ended up being the scapegoats/black sheeps of their families.

Luckily i'm childfree and if i ever have kids i will be keeping them well away from the Narc and i know exactly how to manage the rest of the family.

I totally agree that my problem is nowhere near a bereavement
Actually, part of therapy/recovery from abusive family is accepting that you never had/will have the kind of parent or sibling that you thought you did. Or that you deserve.
You have to process the grief that comes with that - and that does feel like a bereavement.
I've been there enough times.
I'm now an orphan despite having living family - that's the harsh reality.

That’s a good point, Saving. However, there’s also a plus side. You get to a point when you realise that you don’t have to have a relationship with someone just because they’re your sister. That blood is not always thicker than water and it’s fine to disengage for your own metal health.

I have often written that a person from a dysfunctional family will need to grieve for the relationship they should have had, rather than the one they actually got.

All sounds very annoying!
However you aren't going to change her and I suspect from the half hearted humour in your posts you wouldn't really want to anyway.
What you can control in this situation is your half of the relationship. Reset your own boundaries so that you are more comfortable with the level of interact you have with her and her ability to infiltrate the special moments in your life.
Your children can do the same but it sounds like they find her funny rather than frustrating as you do.