Would you be pissed off at this? Toxic family issue

[DtPeabodysLoosePants]

I'm NC with a family member as they are toxic. This upsets my mum but she accepts, sort of, that this is my decision.
Yesterday was her birthday and the NC person was pissed off that my mum was not available at the time they wanted her to be as I'd said months ago I was taking her out for a meal. It was a significant birthday and it's been known about for, well, years. NC was really pissed off as was at work most of the day and declined to see mum after the meal because she had to get up early the next day. The meal was at 5 so hardly late. She said if she'd known she'd have booked the day off
Mum had agreed to babysit tonight for me to take dd2 to an event. I'm a single parent and never get time with just her so was really looking forward to time with just her. It's an award event locally and she's been chosen to go. Mum forgot she was babysitting my other 2 children and arranged to see the NC person. On realising she said she couldn't change it as NC would never forgive her and that she'd have to take the dc to her house and see the NC person there with them.
Now, I don't want my dc to have anything to do with this person and for very good reason. I've requested she stop sending them gifts as at Christmas she accused via mum of me not passing them on the children. She has ignored my request and so the dc have to make contact to say thank you otherwise she'll be moaning to mum that I've not given the gifts to them. Recently she's taken to asking mum to give the gifts directly to the dc knowing I've asked her not to.
So, tonight I have had to change plans. Luckily there are extra seats and I can take my other 2 dc with us but it was supposed to be the child and one parent and for dd2 and me some time together without the others. It will be a late night for them too as we won't get home until 9ish and the youngest is only 4 and is in bed at 7.30 usually.
Would you be pissed off? Mum is going to say I'm being ridiculous as she always does but remaining NC with this person is important or my mental health and I don't want the children exposed to her either. How would you handle this?

Yes I'd be pissed off because you should stick by whichever plans you've made first

I think if I were you I would feel happy with my own choices and try to respect the choices of DM & NC.

It's annoying that your DM has let you down on baby sitting but she can still babysit another time and her reasons for letting you down are not spurious.

Yes she could babysit another night but the event is tonight and she knows I don't have alternative childcare so if she looks after them they are forced to have contact with someone very toxic. She thinks it will be nice for NC person to see the dc.

Without knowing more it's hard to say but it sounds like your mum is part of the problem. You might need to make your boundaries clearer to her.

Unfortunately just because you can see how toxic a person is it doesn’t mean your mum can. I’m in a similar position and while my mum knows deep down how vile my brother is she can’t quite admit it. To be honest though I would struggle to do it with either of my 2 dc if they turned out to be awful people when they grew up

Clearly NC person matters a lot to your DM. Your DM has a right to hold different opinions and make different choices to you and I think you need to respect this even though that may be hard for you.

You have held your boundaries well in preventing your DC from being with NC. Be happy with this decision on what is clearly a difficult situation.

I do respect her decision but she isn't respecting mine to keep dc away. Or for them not to receive presents. But then NC has put mum in the middle with that which isn't fair. I will reiterate my boundaries to mum.

I think I'm more annoyed that NC didn't tell mum until 24hrs before they they were wanting to see her and then got pissed off because mum was with me. So mum
Felt guilty on her special day despite it not being her fault and NC should have arranged things much sooner.

You can't control other people - DM, NC - only how you react to them. It sounds very frustrating but really you need to leave them to it and concentrate on making good decisions for yourself and your dc which you seem to be doing admirably well at by doing a great job with boundaries.

Your mother is also a problem as well as this NC person who like many others do use others in disregarding all wishes for no contact. She is being used here by this other person as their "flying monkey".

Your mother should not be handing over Christmas gifts from this person to your children. She exposing them like this to such manipulation is not good and I would talk to her about this too. It may well be that you will also have to completely reassess your whole relationship with your mother as she will not change. You can only change how you react to such people.

I think from what you have put your dm is a big part of the problem.

She knew she was baby sitting and the reason why and whether she is weak or thinks she can engineer a reunion at least between NC and the children then I think firmer boundaries need to be put in place. I would be looking at alternative childcare for the occasions you need it.

I would not be able to trust that your dm would say something to NC about you going out and dc needing babysitting in the future and NC pulling the sane stunt again

The reason you dm did this is because she is more upset at passing off NC than you.

I also I think the present thing needs knocking on the head.

NC seems to still weald power over you even if you don’t speak to them

I've spoken to her and explained again my position. I got the usual I don't understand you and the past in is the past, why should the children miss out on a relationship with their family blah blah. My exH is very abusive and his family totally side with him but the court decided the children have to see them all. I can't protect them there but I can protect them from the emotional damage of my family.
Mum and I are very close. That causes lots of issues with the NC who is openly resentful yet doesn't take any of the opportunities they have to be closer 🤷🏼‍♀️ I'm in no way the golden child, in fact I have always been the family scapegoat. I was accused for decades of being the cause of my parents marital issues and my mum's heart attack for example. Fuck that. My MH has improved so much since I cut them out of my life. It made me realise how toxic they were.

Your mum is a flying monkey. Grey rock mode needed on the NC with her. Flying monkeys will always use you as a human shield against the toxic person given the chance. If you don't give them the chance they get cross and tell you you are sensitive, over reacting, it is all in the past, etc. Which translates as: please be my human flack jacket taking all the hits.

You mum made that completely clear.

The worst bit is admitting to yourself that the flying monkey will always sacrifice you to save themselves. Even a mum who should be protecting you.

Yes, I'm afraid so. Mum was codependent with my late dad who was an alcoholic. Except he wasn't really and I was the only one who ever said anything (because I was the one put at risk by his drinking and driving for example). I made it a problem by refusing to deny the reality of what was happening. They didn't like being forced to see the family as a whole as dysfunctional so everything was put onto my shoulders as a child. I got angry when I hit my late 30s and said enough. I've always been the "different" one, the "awkward" one, the problem.

I would also now consider having no contact with your mother given her past behaviours.

Flying monkeys are the narcissist’s enablers. They come in all shapes and sizes. They may be friends, family members, pastors, and counselors. In reality, I don’t think the flying monkeys realize what they are doing. I trust that these people actually believe in the righteousness and the “cause” of the narcissist. The narcissist’s enablers, are masters at overlooking red flags, blatant abuse, and the fact that the narcissist is causing and not resolving any of the problems, stating, “There are two sides to every story.”

It truly is amazing. And a victim needs to be stand even stronger still, as she takes on more nightmares in this narcissist’s drama. The target needs to be armed with defenses because she not only has to fight the narcissist and her own inner codependency issues; she also has to fight a myriad of other people whom she may have originally thought would be her allies or support system. The target ends up feeling like she has to climb a mountain with no tools, while those around her are gossiping about her and throwing rocks her way!.

Narcissists are master manipulators. They have limited insight, so they actually hold to the opinion that their behaviors toward you are justified. They are on the spectrum of delusion, and adhere to their pathological opinions. They believe, as they abuse you, that they are, in fact, the true victims. When you do anything, either real or imagined, that upsets the narcissist, he will target you as a scapegoat, and will align himself with flying monkeys. As his target lies on the ground emotionally bleeding, his belief and response is (expressed as outrage,) “Look what you made me do!” This adds fuel to the fire, as he hurts you in the first place and then blames you for it, all the while believing he’s the victim!

He will slander your good name and paint a terrible picture 0f how you have abandoned him, hurt him, and abused him. He will even call you a narcissistic. The projection is unbelievable!

His allies will believe him and will make comments to further encourage his delusions of victim-hood. The real you will be unrecognizable in the story he tells. It is hard to believe, as the target of this type of “mobbing” that occurs, that so many people are believing such ugly things about you.

You begin to wonder, “Maybe it is me,” or “Am I the abusive one?” “No, I know I’m not…or am I?” “Am I a narcissist?” “Maybe I shouldn’t have said what I said…then we wouldn’t be having this problem.” We question our good hearts and our realities. It is crazy making. Even the strongest of targets has a hard time detaching and not personalizing the attacks and rumours. (He/she in the above paragraphs is interchangeable).

Do have a look at and or post on the most recent "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages. Replies there could also help you.

You've described my exH to a t there!
Thankfully there isn't much interaction possible between me, NC and mum as I don't allow there to be. It's only Christmas and the children's birthdays usually. I will be reminding mum when birthdays come around that I do not want anything passed on to the children from NC.

They really didn't like it when I found my voice and said no more. Such a problem, such a shame, if only she'd change so we could accept her into our family, her poor children etc. They even feel sorry for my exH who was abusive in every way. But that's because I was so awful to him

What harm would it have done to your children to see them for a few hours?

Your mum made a mistake. You chose to make it more difficult for yourself so you could make a point, rather than because it was a problem for your children.

Yabbers my eldest would have been there and she has no time for NC because of how she's treated my mum and me. NC said something vile about my youngest that is unforgivable so no, I won't allow them to spend time with them. Yes it's made things more difficult for me but I have boundaries and I'm not allowing anyone to manipulate those to their own end.

I am presuming the NC might be a sibling? I don’t know why you went NC, and I’m not saying you didn’t have the right to be, but it must be tough for your Mum if you are siblings. I would be pissed off with her for minimising your feelings, but I wouldn’t be pissed off with her for what she must be did, because she must be in a really tough situation.

Do you think NC found out you were going out with your mum at this time and deliberately arranged something, knowing your mum wouldn't change her plans with her due to the birthday day?

No, mum just forgot she says she'd look after the dc. There's been lots of birthday activity and it got confusing for her as to what was when I think!

Then why didn’t your mum cancel on NC instead

Because NC was already pissed off about mum being out with me yesterday when they wanted to see her and mum said NC would never forgive her if she changed things again. NC should have arranged it earlier than 24 hours notice and mum should have told NC her plans. NC could have gone and seen her yesterday evening but took the martyr route instead. They will not put themselves out for mum, ever. This is the kind of person who charges you petrol to drive an 8 mile round trip to collect you from hospital or pop to the shops because you're stuck in with a serious injury.