This is why you need to LTB.

[Chaichailatte]

My heart is breaking for an elderly female relative of mine.

She has been married over 50 years. Her husband is not a good man. He has never hit her or laid a finger on her, he doesn't drink, swear, or gamble, he is a respected pillar of the community who has worked hard and provided well for their family, but he has ruined her life.

He is controlling and exacting to a huge degree. She had a pet she loved - one day she came home and it was gone - he was sick of its hair on the sofa. She has not worked since they got married, he controls all the money down to every penny. He tells her what to wear and how to wear it. She has never learnt to drive. She liked a certain type of music, and he destroyed her tapes.

Here's the thing. For years, it was OK. It was liveable. He worked long hours, and she devoted herself to her family of four children, then later, her grandchildren. She is a woman who never asked for much - all she ever wanted was to get married and have children,and they were her everything. She had some lovely times, days out with the other mothers she met through church, picnics at the beach while her husband was working. She has always been very lucky in that she had lots of female relatives and friends who she knew from childhood.

They are all dead now. All of them. Her last dear friend died two years ago, her children have pulled further and further away, as their father tried to exert the same control he held over them as children into adulthood.

He has finally retired - he worked for years past "official" retirement age. His health has declined - we think he may have early onset dementia, though it's hard to tell and she'll never get him to a doctor, not until the situation is desperate. It's hard to tell what could be a medical problem, and what is merely the behaviour of a controlling man who is getting old, grumpy and bitter over his position in the world slipping into one of little importance. The grandchildren are growing up, and also don't want to spend any time around him, which cuts out my relative as he now insists on going everywhere with her.

Basically what I'm saying is, it will only get worse. If you are in a similar marriage and you feel like you can cope and manage right now/it's worth staying for the children/for financial reasons, chances are your DH is still young enough to work and follow his hobbies. Chances are you may only spend a few hours a day in his company. This isn't the worst part of your relationship. That is up ahead.

The most awful thing for my relative, from what she tells me, is that she now has no hope. Time is running out for her. When she was younger, even when things were awful, there was always the hope they could change, but now her time is running out, and her life has shrunk down and the likelihood of it changing is slim- I and another relative are supporting her and would offer her a place to stay/help to leave, but the chances of that are slim.

I probably haven't done a very good job of describing the situation, but it's honestly horrifying. There is no violence but a constant underlying dread of his contained aggression and verbal abuse. At a time of her life when she should be resting and enjoying herself, she wakes up every morning dreading what is to come, and she gets practically no respite, and she can't get away. Hearing the descriptions of her life, it's claustrophobic just to listen to.

I have her permission to post this - I was in a bad relationship in my younger days and she supported me when I left, and I have seen a lot of the red flags I missed in MN posts since--they're all the same, these men.

I am just so heartbroken for her and so devestated that this is where someone's life can end up.

My parents stayed together for far too long. They were poisonous to each other for years and never did anything together voluntarily. There was constantly tension and unhappiness in the house and it took me many decades to work out how normal relationships are supposed to be. I would say they stayed together for so long because they were scared of the upheaval for themselves of leaving.

One good consequence i suppose is that I would never end up like your relative. I like my own space and depend on myself. It’s not easy but preferable to my parents life.

These are men who grew up when it really was a man's world, but the world around has shifted and moved on, he is now an anachronism, yet holds fast to his foundational belief that he is the king of the castle.
Those who can will distance themselves and so he tightens his grip on the one person who cannot get away from him.

I understand that generationally due to economics, social and religious there are more men of this type in this age group. But sadly there are many young men and women also living this dynamic due to this was their blueprint when they were growing up.

Agree with the last post! Don’t delude yourself it doesn’t affect your children. It does, and their choice of partner.

Yes this describes a relative of mine too. Very sad restricted life. Never worked, never allowed to learn how to drive, no personal money. Very controlled. And defends it atm, just hope she sees the light one day.

I am just so heartbroken for her and so devestated that this is where someone's life can end up
She chose to stay with him all these years and have kids with him.
She didn't choose to put her own wellbeing or that of her children first.
As a child of toxic parents myself i have no sympathy for the 'woe is me' routine when you have to face the consequences of your decisions.

I think that represents the final hit, actually. You can put these sorts of people first all your life - when they die then you have nothing else. And they will take all your resources, physical, mental and financial.

Children don’t end respecting mothers that do this either; they tend to move away. They also tend not to forgive the deprivations they suffered because of the relationship dynamic between the parents.

You might say that really narcissistic men often intend this - they compete with their children, including the love of the mother. If they win over the children, the children will resent their mother. I’m not altogether sure that isn’t deserved, but women in these positions often assume their children don’t notice. They do.

You have just described my DM's life. She's mid 70's now and instead of enjoying retirement, she works long shifts as a care assistant to fund my dad's luxuries. She's tragically codependent and I find it very painful to watch and know she will probably never leave him and die having never known she's worth more. She's in complete denial about his financial control and emotional abuse and puts it down to him having OCD/being autistic (neither of which have been diagnosed).

She also justifies staying because of money worries (she doesnt even know if shes on the mortgage and how much is owed) and because he doesnt drink or gamble she thinks he passes the bare minimum criteria to stay. My dad also retired 12 months ago and she tries to keep busy out of the house to stay out of his way, otherwise he will constantly criticise and belittle her over the house (while he barely lifts a finger). He's pretty vile to the DGC also (instead of saying excuse me he says 'get out of my way' or says 'dont be so stupid' and screams and jumps on the spot if someone drops a glass).

I went along with it for years, continued to bring the DGC over to their house on special occasions (while she slaved over dinner and my dad sat there demanding she bring him condiments etc. and then criticised her food) but I cant bare it anymore and have distanced myself from both of them. I'm planning to cut my dad out completely very soon which means none of us will visit her house anymore.

Its true that it affects the children. Both me and my sister married abusive men and she is also lost to codependency now and I've cut contact with her too (as I'm sick of being exposed to her abusive arsehole boyfriends). My mum used to think she could make up for the love my dad never showed and keeps insisting he loves me 'in his own way' which just makes me even more angry as I refuse to be part of the denial anymore. When you grow up exposed to a man like this, it cannot be undone, no matter how loving the other parent is.

What's worse is that my dad has labelled me as 'difficult' because I wont tolerate his abuse and tells other family members that he loves me but doesnt like me as a person. My mum has bought into this too and is trying to label me as autistic and tells me often how much I'm like my dads narcissistic mother. Theres a big price to pay if you are the only person in your family that can see things clearly (thankfully my half brothers also see it so I know I'm not crazy).

@TroysMammy get out if you can. My parents have a relationship like the one you describe. My dad seems perfectly happy as he's only interested in himself and his hobbies but my mum seems to feel she's left it too late to start again and will be stuck there resenting him for the next 20 years.

^^ Sorry that was for @WhoAmIToTellYou not TroysMammy

I know someone in a similar situation, it is so sad, she is in her early eighties too. Her dh even prevented her from going into hospital to have an operation because he is disabled now - he can't look after himself, demands she does it and refuses point blank any outside help. He is despicable.

I think women are socialized to tolerate men’s unacceptable behavior and cant or won’t break free. It’s a totally toxic environment for kids so they’re not doing it for them. It’s perhaps an unfortunate thing to say, but aren’t they doing it because it fulfills some need in themselves to be dependent and be the victim. It’s definitely my own reaction to my parents toxic relationship but I do have little patience for faux martyrdom. You make your choice and have to live with them.

I agree Zaz, I can't stomach self inflicted martyrdom anymore. Has anyone heard about inverted narcissism before?

I think eventually, people in LTR's with narcissists pick up many narc traits themselves (always talk about their problems and take over conversations, they are the ultimate victim, noone has it as bad as them and gain attention from this, become extremely defensive at perceived criticism, constantly comparing themselves to others negatively, become competitive with people other than the narc).

I've seen elements of it in my mum e.g. she is obsessed with being thin and actively competes with me and my sister re this and (my sister competes with me about this also among lots of other things and often says she is jealous if anything good happens to me).

As a recovering codependent, I can see how much of this goes on at a subconscious level, but the further I go along my healing journey, the more I can see the self centredness of people who chose to remain this self unaware and choose to enable the abuser (often at the cost of their DC's wellbing).

It's brought up alot of anger towards my mum which is hard to process because I know she did try to be a good mum at least and alot of this is her messed up blueprint from her own childhood (but then that applies to narcs also and I cabt forgive them). She still ultimately chooses my dad everytime over me and her DGC.

As someone said - whom I can't recall:

The way out is through the door.

Amongst all the horror detailed here - to dispose of someones loved pet is monstrous. Unforgivable.

She could tell him that she is going to get a cat/dog/bird and if he protests - she will leave. Might be an obtainable line to draw that seems small but has huge significance.

My beautiful neighbour is in her 90's. Her husband died two years ago. I expressed my condolences and she said she wishes he'd died sooner. He was incredibly controlling. She's now having her house refurbished. She invited us in for a girls night in and is doing all the things she wanted to do that she is still physically able to do. Its so sad that most of her life was miserable with a controlling bastard for a husband.

Thanks for posting OP. I have been struggling under the burden of single parenthood recently after ending my relationship to a controlling, abusive narcissist. The worst thing was role modelling the relationship for my children. Your post has inspired me to draw a line under the stress and strain, and to move forward being proud that I had the courage to get out. Its tough being a single mum but nowhere near as difficult as staying with an abusive partner.

This is the TG phreak
Sorry ,that doesn't make sense!
"This is a thread for......." is what it is supposed to say.

he can't look after himself, demands she does it and refuses point blank any outside help
this demanding that the partner takes the strain when outside help is available seems a common theme

My lovely MIL put up with a similar situation until the death of her husband. She sadly died shortly afterwards from late onset motor neurone disease

Well I think the point is assert authority over your wife as far as possible. Ideally, grind her down so that she doesn’t even think of free time, only the husband’s needs.

Men like this are poison - and very charming when required. Their wives often look crazy, upset, tired and very quiet. It’s easily seen if you look for it.

It’s really sad that she didn’t leave, to her and her DCs’ long term detriment.

Her only hope if she is still unwilling to leave is her H dying first!

My mum is 72 and has just left my rather similar sounding Dad after 50 odd years of marriage. It is doable with the right advice and support.

@Stpancras, I hope your Mum goes on to thrive but I'm thinking your Dad probably hasn't taken it too well?

He’s been playing at “I’m so excited, can’t wait to be a single man” but he looks haggard, won’t leave his new flat and has no food in. All of Which I see clearly as now as a ploy to begin manipulating my brother to be his new “carer” (I live overseas). He doesn’t need a carer btw.

My deeply unpleasant dad died in his mid 70s. My DSM rewrote history and enabled his total shitness. After his death she hooked up with an old boyfriend who takes good care of her. Im not particularly fond of him but he is good to her.

So now they're both in their 80s and actually happy, with someone nice. It's never too late.

Not quite at that age, but my parents split after 30 deeply unhappy years. If it hadn't come a head over a massive lie in which he was found out, I believe they'd still be together now. Like others have said, my father could be incredibly charming, but conned people out of money left right and centre and was controlling and violent.
I would love to think your relative could get out of this, and have a few years of happy relaxed life. She deserves it. You sound lovely and caring and I hope you can help her see the light.