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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

This is why you need to LTB.

83 replies

Chaichailatte · 02/07/2019 17:55

My heart is breaking for an elderly female relative of mine.

She has been married over 50 years. Her husband is not a good man. He has never hit her or laid a finger on her, he doesn't drink, swear, or gamble, he is a respected pillar of the community who has worked hard and provided well for their family, but he has ruined her life.

He is controlling and exacting to a huge degree. She had a pet she loved - one day she came home and it was gone - he was sick of its hair on the sofa. She has not worked since they got married, he controls all the money down to every penny. He tells her what to wear and how to wear it. She has never learnt to drive. She liked a certain type of music, and he destroyed her tapes.

Here's the thing. For years, it was OK. It was liveable. He worked long hours, and she devoted herself to her family of four children, then later, her grandchildren. She is a woman who never asked for much - all she ever wanted was to get married and have children,and they were her everything. She had some lovely times, days out with the other mothers she met through church, picnics at the beach while her husband was working. She has always been very lucky in that she had lots of female relatives and friends who she knew from childhood.

They are all dead now. All of them. Her last dear friend died two years ago, her children have pulled further and further away, as their father tried to exert the same control he held over them as children into adulthood.

He has finally retired - he worked for years past "official" retirement age. His health has declined - we think he may have early onset dementia, though it's hard to tell and she'll never get him to a doctor, not until the situation is desperate. It's hard to tell what could be a medical problem, and what is merely the behaviour of a controlling man who is getting old, grumpy and bitter over his position in the world slipping into one of little importance. The grandchildren are growing up, and also don't want to spend any time around him, which cuts out my relative as he now insists on going everywhere with her.

Basically what I'm saying is, it will only get worse. If you are in a similar marriage and you feel like you can cope and manage right now/it's worth staying for the children/for financial reasons, chances are your DH is still young enough to work and follow his hobbies. Chances are you may only spend a few hours a day in his company. This isn't the worst part of your relationship. That is up ahead.

The most awful thing for my relative, from what she tells me, is that she now has no hope. Time is running out for her. When she was younger, even when things were awful, there was always the hope they could change, but now her time is running out, and her life has shrunk down and the likelihood of it changing is slim- I and another relative are supporting her and would offer her a place to stay/help to leave, but the chances of that are slim.

I probably haven't done a very good job of describing the situation, but it's honestly horrifying. There is no violence but a constant underlying dread of his contained aggression and verbal abuse. At a time of her life when she should be resting and enjoying herself, she wakes up every morning dreading what is to come, and she gets practically no respite, and she can't get away. Hearing the descriptions of her life, it's claustrophobic just to listen to.

I have her permission to post this - I was in a bad relationship in my younger days and she supported me when I left, and I have seen a lot of the red flags I missed in MN posts since--they're all the same, these men.

I am just so heartbroken for her and so devestated that this is where someone's life can end up.

OP posts:
K1ng6K0ng629 · 02/07/2019 22:03

I read that he controls all the money !

That is why I've always worked & kept my financial independence.
I've seen the control & power occur in other people's lives

She could do with joint bank account access Perhaps persuaded under the guise of what happens if one of the couple are ill

Chaichailatte · 02/07/2019 22:06

Thank you for the replies, to all the posters who have been through or are facing similar Flowers

I honestly can't put into words how utterly bleak the situation is. A lot of discussion about relationships - the good and the bad- really focuses on the early years, how to find a good man- and, I think, on the middle years, when everyone is raising children, having rows, friends are getting divorced, that sort of thing. It's as though for decades everything is tumultuous and busy, and then a switch flicks and you're old and all the drama and difficulty stops, and you suddenly have a nice quiet life and a nice quiet husband.

Nobody ever seems to stop and think--what happens if things just carry on getting worse, and one day you wake up and your husband is just as bad, he hasn't changed, he's even more needy and grumpy, bees frightened of dying, it makes him even more cruel, and he's there all the time? Your support network has dwindled, your health failing, no money and unlikely to be able to make any, and you're spending all day every day with this horrible man, until one of you dies?

And my relative is terrified of getting ill before him, for obvious reasons.

It never occurred to me, how being in an abusive relationship is bad enough, but being in an abusive relationship in your old age is a different hell entirely. My relative was lured into a very common trap, of thinking the relationship was "manageable". Which it was, in a way, for years. Until things changed and now she's stuck.

She could leave,but I can almost guarantee she won't. I wish she would - even now, she could have a good few years of independence, she is very sociable and I think if she got away from him she could easily make new friends and reconnect with the family who have drifted away because of him. But she won't do it. She's just living this trapped, painful life where she can't even buy an ice cream on a trip to the coast, because he will spend the next three hours going on and on about her reckless spending and over indulgence,and how she'll gain weight.

She has no access to money, weighs less than eight stone, and is allowed nothing for herself

What a way to live. In your late seventies and you can't buy an ice cream

OP posts:
LexMitior · 02/07/2019 22:07

I don’t think it’s so uncommon. I too have known a woman like this, who was trapped effectively by her narcissistic husband, who in time became a serious invalid, could not work and she became his carer.

He was a terrible bully and ingrate, and certainly meant it when it came to til death us do part. He had her in harness until he died. She would never have got divorced but had thrown him out when she and he were both younger and fitter. When he became ill, she was stuck.

fotheringhay · 02/07/2019 22:28

I guess we could all try to keep an eye out for the older women we know, hard to see what we could do but there may be some bit of practical/financial advice that might make their life a bit easier. Carer's allowance, that type of thing

K1ng6K0ng629 · 02/07/2019 22:31

She needs some money
Help her sell 'stuff' on internet or auction
Car boot sale

If she has her National Insurance number you can check state pension on www.gov.uk if they have a joint pension, perhaps she can apply to have half paid into her own bank account ?

K1ng6K0ng629 · 02/07/2019 22:34

Grounds for divorce, financial abuse & unreasonable behaviour

another20 · 03/07/2019 00:04

This sounds like modern day slavery, coercive control and financial abuse - all illegal. Report to SS or police? I would keep listening and talking to her - she needs to be heard for her horror to be acknowledged.

What is really sad is not just that she has lost any chance of a fulfilling relationship with her children and grandchildren - but that they in turn will likely be in painful emotionally dysfunctional relationships as that was their blueprint.

Terrible that the end point is that he gets ill and she becomes his carer - worse is what happened to a relative of mine in a similarly abusive long marriage - she got terminal cancer in her 60’s - she knew he would neglect and treat her badly and she would be trapped - so she upped and left - went to live and then die with her sister.

RollOnSaturday · 03/07/2019 00:37

Well done for posting this. I also know somebody who went through this, but she developed Alzheimer’s and the husband was neglecting her. Feeding her one meal a day, not taking her outside and banned all friends and family from seeing her. It took a long time for authorities to take notice of the families concerns. She would not speak against him. In the end there was enough proof to section him for his mental health and she went into hospital where she promptly died.

Absolutely miserable end. If you are reading this and your DP is controlling then know you need to get the fuck out before you are old.

managedmis · 03/07/2019 00:43

Who controls the purse strings?

I know you're going to say him, but does she have any access to her own money at all?

Could she stay with you whilst she goes through a divorce?

What about the other relatives who she now never sees? Do they know the severity of the situation?

doxxed · 03/07/2019 00:59

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons.

RantyAnty · 03/07/2019 01:15

Would she be willing to leave and stay with you?

I would think she would get half of his retirement and the house?

If he is an old grouch, it might be possible to hire a truck and and couple of strong boys (sons, grandsons) and pack up all her things in one day. He may kick off but he certainly isn't going to be strong enough to beat everyone up.

It is probably very scary for her to think about leaving. She has spent 50 years as the frog in the pot of water being brought to a boil.

With counselling, I reckon she would thrive and be able to have some friends and a life.

K1ng6K0ng629 · 03/07/2019 01:22

I think that you need to gauge the following

Is your friend unhappy, talks, but doesn't really want anything to change the status quo
Versus
Really wants to leave permanently & start a new life

There is a big difference

If she is 70, she needs to make a decision

tinyvulture · 03/07/2019 01:58

Oh, this is so sad, OP. Thank you for posting! Very thought-provoking. And so sad for your friend - I hope somehow, she finds some peace. Certainly, she is lucky to have a good friend like you.

What I also wanted to say is, 70 isn’t very old these days. My mom is about 70, and if she ever chose to meet someone else (if my lovely dad dies - or she divorces him - he CAN be annoying) then I am certain she would have a wealth of suitors - in real life. Or found over the internet (which she is savvy enough to do). Or whatever. Or maybe she wouldn’t even need a man, and would just do the things she loved.....
All I am trying to say is, it’s never too late......

Way0ftheW0rld · 03/07/2019 02:16

There was a post a few months ago with a similar story
A wife who did not work & had zero access to money
Her daughter got her first part time job & it made her realize how vulnerable she was

The husband had all the power

It was I believe 18 years for this lady to realize her predicament

However, I agree that it's never too late to make changes !

Graymare · 03/07/2019 02:29

Thank you for posting this OP. I think this situation, sadly, is very common. I hope this makes people think hard, I know it has me, about staying in a often toxic, stifling and controlling relationship simply because it's not that bad he doesn't hit me.
I'm actually quite shocked just now, as I can see a really strong maternal pattern of women putting up with
dreadful behavior from their spouses. I wonder how many families this might be true for?
I will hope against hope OP that you can persuade your relative that it is still worth leaving.

Mummaofmytribe · 03/07/2019 04:36

Flowersto your loved one. I wish her strength.

Chaichailatte · 03/07/2019 07:02

She's closer to 80 than 70.I very much doubt she'd leave. Another complication is that they are quite old fashioned Christians, so mentally she's up against all that sort of thing too. And I just can't see her doing it at this stage. She does know she has a place to go if it does come to that. Awful as it sounds, an ideal scenario would be if he became ill enough to go into a home, leaving her in peace. You couldn't put a time on that though.

OP posts:
Whosorrynow · 03/07/2019 10:34

the behaviour of a controlling man who is getting old, grumpy and bitter over his position in the world slipping into one of little importance
I've seen this one play out a few times 🤨

Whosorrynow · 03/07/2019 11:10

Can you get her to post on here for some support, it might give her some strength?
Been validated and acknowledged by other people is a very powerful thing.

Whosorrynow · 03/07/2019 11:17

My relative was lured into a very common trap
I have long been aware of this trap, I saw it years ago waiting for me in the distance, I made sure I had financial independence and a place of my own to live in.
I would never live with a partner again, I would never risk letting someone have that much power over my everyday life.

Whosorrynow · 03/07/2019 11:19

What will happen to all these angry old men whom no one wants to be with?

Spinnaret · 03/07/2019 11:24

I could have written this about my mother. She feels utterly trapped with my father. There was a window 25 years ago when she nearly left, but she bottled it and stayed. He is so toxic, all three children have pulled back, they hardly see their grandchildren. I spoke to my mum for the first time in 6 months at the weekend. He is now over 80 and declining, and she is now even more trapped as his semi-carer.

He used to hide his narcissism in public but a lot of their friends have also withdrawn as he gave up hiding and they witnessed how he treated me as a young adult.

She has been depressed and over eats to compensate all her adult life and now suffers the consequences as she gets increasingly arthritic and immobile. His death cannot come too soon.

another20 · 03/07/2019 11:30

What will happen to all these angry old men whom no one wants to be with?

Probably nothing. They hold all the power - especially so in the current 70/80 age group - economic and often social status.

It’s a very important lesson not to be dependent on anyone. The vile man that my relative left when she was 3 months from death - managed to lure new victim within months of her death.

notacooldad · 03/07/2019 11:33

This is the TG phreak for all those that list a catalogue of harmful behaviour and then say ' but he's a great dad' ( which clearly isn't true otherwise he wouldn't behave like that towards the mother of his children)
Children grow old, they see what's happening, posssibly copy the cycle of behaviour in their relationships and move away to get away from an abusive dad leaving mum alone.
Get away from abuse sooner rather than later is good advice but rarely happens, I fear.

Whosorrynow · 03/07/2019 11:38

He is so toxic
These are men who grew up when it really was a man's world, but the world around has shifted and moved on, he is now an anachronism, yet holds fast to his foundational belief that he is the king of the castle.
Those who can will distance themselves and so he tightens his grip on the one person who cannot get away from him.

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