What to do about sister

[ScaredOfSister]

I'm not sure what I'm hoping for from this thread and sorry if this gets long. I've name changed because this is probably outing to most of my family, a couple of whom are on mumsnet (though I suspect not in this section).

I grew up with an abusive 2 years older sister. I don't remember a time before being scared of her. She was sneaky a lot of the time; pinches and prods when nobody was looking, I talked quite late, mumbled and remember getting in trouble a lot for "whingeing" when she had just hurt me, once I was even trying to show her teeth marks to my aunt but my sister was saying I'd done it to get her in trouble and my aunt believed her. I'm not sure that anyone except my mum believed how much she was bullying me all the time and my mum was seemingly helpless to stop it. As a young teenager a friend saw her deliberately bash my head off a doorknob, I apologised to my friend who said what shocked her was that I didn't react and then apologised. To me it was just a normal event, she liked to hurt me. She got worse as a teenager; stealing everything, I remember being locked in the house with the chain on shaking while she screamed through the door at me, I was waiting for my mum because she told me not to let my sister in without her being there, my sister was going after me because I'd told our dad that she'd stolen my money (I'd been doing a lot of babysitting). She had a normal childhood, I've no idea what made her so wild all the time. Her personality was and is erratic, while our parents are more calm, I think they couldn't understand her and were lost in working out what to do with her.

Since being a teenager the physical side of abuse has stopped. She always claims to love me and she wants a lot of contact. She exhausts me with it, I can't cope with streams and streams of messages, many hours of phonecalls saying nothing of interest about friends of hers who I don't even know. Every now and then she explodes in anger and I get vitriolic nasty texts about some perceived slight. Then she moves on. She has never apologised for anything she's done, nor anything she's said, she just expects it all to be forgotten.

I've been relatively low contact; I see her mostly with other family and take calls ever few weeks or so. Then I had DS. As he's reached the toddler stage, I feel like I've been hit by a brick wall of emotions. I'm so upset for the child I was, who nobody seemed able to protect from her. Recently she exploded at me about nothing, streams of nasty texts. I blocked her from everything and felt relief, that she couldn't get at me. A little later I had to unblock her because she was taking our dad to hospital, so I see she's sending messages every few days, telling me she misses me, misses DS etc. I don't know what to say to her and I don't know what to do. I've been talking to DH, who can't understand with our history how i see her at all. I'd love to never see nor hear from her again, but I don't want rifts affecting our wider family. Surely also I'm being unfair slightly, because she was a child and it's my parents who failed to help her behave.

Sorry it was so long, any thoughts on how to handle this would be appreciated.

I’d limit contact with her, certainly. And would be very disinclined to leave her alone with your son, ever.

I’m sorry you went through that as a child.

Thank you. I don't think she'd hurt my DS, but I wouldn't leave him with her. I thought she'd improved, but the latest outburst makes me realise she hadn't changed at all.

Would block her personally. She has no right it make any demands of you. And certainly should not be with your ds at all.

Firstly, I am so sorry for your childhood. I had a similar epiphany about various events from my childhood concerning some friends after I had my first child.
I think you know you have to be low and considered contact with her. Not bc of the historic abuse but bc she is still erratic and prone to nastiness.
I am glad your dh supports you. If you do have to see her occasionally for sake of wider family, please make sure he is with you to be a buffer if she attempts any sort of bullying.
Good luck to you and enjoy your own family

She is toxic and bring no value or anything positive to your life. If you cant trust her with your ds then why have anything to do with her at all. Agree with your Dh.

I am so sorry for you, I have had a similair experience with my sister and unfortunatly the situation remains I cannot go No Contact with her. If I were you, I would recommend cutting her off completely if you can.

Also maybe see a counsellor about what happened because you will feel sad and cheated.

In re to this comment " because she was a child and it's my parents who failed to help her behave." - This is why counselling could help, I thought exactly the same for several years and felt such resentment they had left me in this situation and I don't know if this will help you at all (it took me a long time to accept). They were doing the best they could even if it was the wrong thing, they might have been useless and should have done more, but they didn't and its done. You either have to forgive them or move on from it.

It took me about 18 months to accept that.

I hope that helped a little bit and I really hope you get some closure from your sister x

She always claims to love me and she wants a lot of contact. She exhausts me with it, I can't cope with streams and streams of messages, many hours of phonecalls saying nothing of interest about friends of hers who I don't even know. Every now and then she explodes in anger and I get vitriolic nasty texts about some perceived slight. Then she moves on. She has never apologised for anything she's done, nor anything she's said, she just expects it all to be forgotten
Sounds like my sister - i'm certain she has a personality disorder.

The best thing you can do to protect yourself is strengthen your boundaries and follow through with the consequences when she oversteps them.
She KNOWS what she's doing - she just doesn't see it as 'wrong' or care about how it makes you feel.

Sorry to hear you've also had similar issues @Happyandglorious, @Horsesforcourses23 and @SavingSpaces2019.

I think would be too difficult to go no contact at the moment because it would make life difficult for our parents and other relatives. Being low contact can be easier; when I don't speak to her at all our parents get involved to try to make me, but when I just limit contact there's nothing they can say. I don't know what to say to her now to get back to low contact, because there's nothing at all that I want to say to her.

I don't know how to pick a counsellor, but also I don't have time without DS to go, maybe that's something for a few years time when he's at school. I think I mostly do accept that our parents did their best, they just couldn't understand her, and still can't, they try to fix it all with love but it doesn't work. Blaming them feels like letting her off the hook, it's more as though I feel that I should blame them instead of her because it started when she was a child.

She KNOWS what she's doing - she just doesn't see it as 'wrong' or care about how it makes you feel.
Parts of this make sense; she doesn't see her behaviour as wrong and she doesn't care how it makes me feel. I don't think she does "know" what she's doing though, she just loses control.

She sounds awful and very manipulative. I would really limit contact with her.

Call her out. Has she asked why you blocked her? If she does then say that you don’t want to spoken to like that. She lashes out without consequences. Tell your DP when they get involved it’s because you don’t want to be spoken to like that

How died she interact with other family members and friends?

I meant how does she interact with other family members and friends?

"I don't know how to pick a counsellor, but also I don't have time without DS to go, maybe that's something for a few years time when he's at school"

No, you need support now from a therapist as such situations like you describe with your disordered of thinking sister do not improve. Do not use your DS as a reason to not contact a counsellor or therapist.

Some counsellors offer counselling over the phone; I would contact BACP and see what they have in your area. Interview such people carefully and at length before picking one; treat them like candidates for a job interview. These people are like shoes, you really need to find someone who fits in with your approach.

If your sister is too toxic/difficult and or otherwise batshit for you to deal with, its the SAME deal for your child too. Keep your child well away from her going forwards.

Its not your fault that your sister is disordered of thinking and you did not make her that way. She seems to have made you her sister as the scapegoat for all her inherent ills. Your parents may well have tried your best but they have played a role here in shaping this whole dynamic which started with you both in childhood.

You at the very least need high, firmer and consistently applied boundaries here re her and for that matter your parents too.

Re your comment:-
"I think would be too difficult to go no contact at the moment because it would make life difficult for our parents and other relatives. Being low contact can be easier; when I don't speak to her at all our parents get involved to try to make me, but when I just limit contact there's nothing they can say"

You matter too and you have every right to say no more to being abused by your sister. If that decision made life more hard for your parents then so be it, they are really acting and have acted in their own interests here so not necessarily yours. They would not be pressuring you to maintain contact of sorts with her if they did have your interests at heart.

I would also read about FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) as you may well be in this re your parents and sister also.

You may want to read this too:-
outofthefog.website/

This could also be of some help to you also:-
outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do

From the Out of the FOG website:-

Untreated individuals with personality disorders are dependent on the compliance of others. They resist boundaries in an effort to control, manipulate, and dominate. Non's sometimes use boundaries in an effort to control, manipulate, and dominate too. For example, we might be tempted to tell someone "You can NOT rage at me", or "You can NOT say cruel things to me." These aren't examples of boundaries, these are examples of a Non's effort to control someone else's behavior. A healthy boundary is, "When you rage at me, I feel threatened. I am going to leave (the room, the house, etc) until such time we can communicate calmly." The other person is free to rage to his/her heart's content, but you don't have to sit there and absorb all their anger and rage. If you are saying to yourself, "Why should I have to leave the room? They should have to stop raging!", you are looking at boundaries backwards. You are taking the same approach as one would take who says, "Oh no, my house is on fire and is engulfed in flames. I'm standing at the front door but I'm not going to leave the house because my new sprinkling system will turn on an put out the flames." Are you waiting for someone or something else to make a move so you don't have to? Are you willing to take a chance of getting burned? Don't do it.

Boundaries are all around us. We come across them every day. Cars have theft-deterrent devices to prevent someone from stealing your car. Homes have deadbolts or locks to prevent someone else from invading your home and removing your possessions. Your office desk has a lock to prevent theft. Your locker at the club has a lock to keep your valuables safe. If your personal property is protected against theft, but you find yourself feeling like your emotional well-being is being stolen from you, then it's time to take steps to learn how to set boundaries so that your emotional well-being can be kept under lock and key.

Think about it. We go to a lot of effort and spend a lot of money to protect our material possessions - yet we often do little to protect ourselves. Aren't you worth more than all of your possessions?
In order for boundaries to be effective, you need to approach it with the right mindset. Recognize that you must take personal responsibility for your own well-being.

Whether you end up staying in close relationship or not, learning how to set healthy boundaries is one of the very best things you can do to ensure that you don't end up in a dysfunctional dance again with someone else.

Remember the acronym BREATHE: outofthefog.website/other-articles/breathe

There’s a whole toxic dynamic to your family. I do not know why your sister is like she is but your parents failed you both in not protecting you and not getting her help. Even now with their demands for you to ‘be nice’, they’re still failing you.

Therapy should be a priority because the abuse and neglect you suffered as well as child and the ongoing family dysfunctional dynamic is still hurting you.

The difference between now and the past is that your younger self had no one who prioritised you emotional and physical well-being.

You can still help your younger self by prioritising your adult self now.

@Widgetsframe - in general she's delightful and friendly, particularly to strangers or in social situations. With anyone close she has moments though when she can become very unpleasant, I don't think as bad as she's been with me, but nasty. To my parents more than anyone, they've always tried to support her (financially as well as emotionally) and they worry so much because "she's her own worst enemy". They see the problems with her, but they're helpless because they love her and don't want her to be alone.

@AttilaTheMeerkat - thank you. I will read that a few times and think about it.

Thanks @AgentJohnson, I think I'm just starting to realise that I need a bit of help with this.

your parents are the 'flying monkeys'

Your parents aren’t helpless they’re just in denial. Throwing money at her and ignoring your emotional and physical pain is neglect. It takes a special kind of someone to ignore the emotional and physical abuse of a child, especially when that child is your own.

You are obviously not ready to view you parents behaviour as neglect but I do urge you to get support in coming to terms with your family dynamic and the role that every individual in that dynamic plays.

in general she's delightful and friendly, particularly to strangers or in social situations. With anyone close she has moments though when she can become very unpleasant

If that's true, she's not losing control, is she? She feels entitled to behave like that with you. She believes at some level that it's ok.

What are flying monkeys?

That's a very good point @CharlotteCollinsneeLucas.

www.aconsciousrethink.com/6891/avoid-flying-monkeys/

From the FOG website, she has a lot of traits of both the Antisocial and Histrionic personality disorders. I'm going to keep reading more about that.

I appreciate the additional perspectives. I'm really not trying to minimise my parents' responsibilities here, but really they've tried so hard. She wears them down and exhausts them, they've never known what to do with her nor how to help her. Where I've stepped away and reduced contact so much, they've never been able to do that, or she'd have had nobody when she needed help so many times. Then she's fine for weeks or even a few months and then there's some new drama, she's been a life sentence for them. They would always do anything they can for me too, but they couldn't get rid of one child for another and they couldn't control her.

That passage from the Out of the FOG website couldn't be more patronising and heavy handed, could it?

She is their daughter, they feel they owe her to do their utter best, and to continue to do it for as long as possible.

However she is NOT your daughter, she is your sister. As such you have no such responsibility. Ask them if they would tolerate the same type of behaviour from their own sibling. I'd guess it's a big fat no.

Them doing their best for her does NOT have to include making you continue to be her emotional punching bag.