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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Laying out all the bad stuff in the beginning

42 replies

Thinkingandthinking · 10/06/2019 09:31

What is your take on such situation?

You start dating a man, he is good and caring and funny. From the rather beginning (already around month 1 and 2) he starts talking about all the negative stuff regarding himself - how he has been bullied at school, how his parents divorced when he was little and how badly his dad behaved in his opinion doing so; how all of his girlfriends have left him (this came out a bit later); how his mother survived cancer; how he is undervalued at work while he works so hard; how his older siblings are so successful and he is not; how all of his friends have "their own life" and they do not make an effort to meet him; how he due all of this does not trust people very well.

During the following relationship, on the one hand he seems fine and still caring and funny and everything, but on the other hand all these negatives somehow occur in his actions or conversations and sometimes it feels like he is using these negatives as an excuse, but it also feels like his actions actually can be "excused" due to his "poor life" (feeling sorry for him, natural instinct).

So. My question is. What do you think, could this be rather:

a) He will lay out all the bad stuff from the start and see whether the partner can cope with it and still like him, so he knows that he can trust her and share their lives together, to minimize the risk of her dumping him when something negative comes out later about him - so some kind of defense mechanism not to get hurt.

or

b) He will lay out all the bad stuff so she will feel sorry for him and be kind of trapped because how can one leave someone who has had such a difficult life and so hurt inside - so kind of abusive tactic to keep someone in their life.

OP posts:
FuriousVexation · 10/06/2019 09:39

There is no way I'd date someone who was so indiscreet.

gamerchick · 10/06/2019 09:42

I couldn't date anyone who sees themselves as a victim. It ends up draining you.

There will be a reason all his girlfriends have left him.

Happynow001 · 10/06/2019 11:25

b) He will lay out all the bad stuff so she will feel sorry for him and be kind of trapped because how can one leave someone who has had such a difficult life and so hurt inside - so kind of abusive tactic to keep someone in their life.
This ^^. Actually I thought this before I even got to the end of your post.

I'd get away away before you get too enmeshed OP.

WhoWhooooo · 10/06/2019 11:32

I think he’s told himself it’s A but it’s subconsciously actually B

PicsInRed · 10/06/2019 12:10

Two reasons:

  1. Nigerian scammer email method - disclose failings early (in scam email that's poor English/implausible story - in dating that's "hey, I'm crap, still wanna date me?") to ensure you don't waste your time grooming someone who wont fall for it;
  1. His disclosures may prompt you to disclose. He'll then bank that away to tailor his grooming just for you and also to use against you later. His disclosures need not even be real - he could just throw a lot of stuff out there, hope something resonates with you, promoting you to disclose for purpose of using against you.
Freyasmum1 · 10/06/2019 12:13

Look up "the broken wing"

HTH

GreyPaw · 10/06/2019 12:17

What strikes me is not the level of honesty, but how it's all very "poor me". He seems to feel very sorry for himself. I don't think this bodes well; within time you may well end up being just another person he feels has victimised him.

PhossyJaw · 10/06/2019 12:17

I couldn't date anyone who sees themselves as a victim. It ends up draining you.

Absolutely. He's grooming you, consciously or not, to be that Special Woman who will 'save' him -- if you challenge his thinking, suggest that he changes aspects of his life he's not happy with, point out that no one 'owes' anyone friendship so he should make new friends if the old ones no longer work, or, God forbid, leave him, then you're just piling on with all the rest of the world in not valuing him.

He's pre-guilting you for challenging him or dumping him.

Needsomebottle · 10/06/2019 12:24

I think maybe judge by your own standards... I'm sure you've had difficulties in life, knock backs, things that affected you. Have you felt the need to put them out there? I was bullied at school and I'm not sure I've ever told my DH. For no reason other than I've dealt with it, whilst I still think of it sometimes it doesn't play on my mind and I've never found us in a conversation where I've wanted or needed to mention it.

I find it most odd in such a short space of time he's told you all these woes. It's very "poor me" and suggests quite a negative view of life and little drive to take any responsibility for his own circumstances. Whilst some things are unavoidable, and I'm sure not his fault, it's just very negative and like you say, that he's trying to lay it out why he might treat you like crap in the future so you'll let things slide. I don't think I could be with someone with a naturally negative outlook. And you see lots of threads on here from people with such people for years who feel ground down by it. Putting aside his reasons for telling you, do you like the person he is presenting to you?

MrsMeSeeks · 10/06/2019 12:30

Just sounds very self-pitying to me. I would be less preoccupied with his conscious motives for telling you all this crap, than I would be tired already of the 'poor me' victim mentality.

LilouBlue · 10/06/2019 12:34

You say he's using these negatives as an "excuse" , I'm wondering an excuse for what? Is he treating you badly, then saying "well it's not my fault, my dad left so I have no proper male role model" etc?

I'd be very wary tbh. Honesty is good and important, but a pity party is something nobody wants.

Redshoeblueshoe · 10/06/2019 12:34

I was bored of him by the end of the first paragraph.

Equalityumber · 10/06/2019 12:47

He sounds fun.

mindutopia · 10/06/2019 13:05

He sounds like hard work. The reality is we all have our baggage. The early months and years of a relationship should be the fun, carefree ones. It’s normal for our past to come up in conversations, but I would probably distance myself from anyone who seemed that miserable and obsessed with all the negative things in life. When you are dating, it should be light and fun and still quite casual.

Catalicious · 10/06/2019 13:09

Irrespective of his intentions, I'd find that victim mentality very unappealing.

Thinkingandthinking · 10/06/2019 13:12

He started those stories around month 1-2, now we are in month 9. My own standards.. Well I have had difficulties in my life as well and I did not have a bubbly childhood and I have also dealt with a lot of insecurities due to it. And other stuff as well. But I have dealt with these and do not need to talk about, well at least not deliberately initiating such conversations. I have mentioned a few things during conversations, but as he has not shown any further interest in those things, I have not talked much about these.

Overall I like him indeed, but I get the feeling that he is more a talker than a doer - I guess I like the idea of him and his thoughts, but I do not see him putting his thoughts into action, I guess?

Using as an excuse. For example, he is lonely when I'm out and about without him, and when I say why don't you meet up with some of your friends instead of just being lonely at home, he says well no one has time for him, so there is no point even asking them. Or like generally, it feels like he rather would not do something, because he has lost his trust in human nature so there is no point even trying. Or he is afraid of trying something new alone, because he is convinced that everyone will look at him and comment how bad he is (like when he was bullied at school). When I tell him that is is not the case and we talk through it, he say yeah, he knows, everything is fine, no problem, no need to worry and so on, makes him look like the past things are no big deal, but he still does not do those things.

Also, recently he has changed his tone. He does not bring up those past hurts anymore. And seems generally ok and for example talks about all beautiful, funny, interesting childhood/school stories, how he played with his neighbors kids and what little silly funny things they did at school. So it's a bit confusing. At first I thought his childhood was miserable, now it seems like it was such a glorious time. But I guess it was something like, he was bullied by some during the school hours, but was friends with some children after school. I do not know, I'm just kind of confused. One minute he is really confident and ideal, and presents himself like there are no worries, but it seems weird to me after knowing all these negative things and how worried he has been about similar things.

And for example, his mother. I first got the impression that he values his mother and her opinion (in a good way, not like a mommy's-boy), has told me numerous stories how they just the two of them did all kind of fun stuff together, went to travels when he was younger and lived with his mother. Then it turned out that he actually disrespects her mother in his mind (told me once during his sad mood episode). And actually with his actions, I can see that he would rather not talk to her. Also, he has told me numerous beautiful stories about his grandmother, who lives rather close to him, how they spent so many beautiful times together when he was small and how great it all was, but he never visits her or calls to her or anything similar. Kind of confusing.

OP posts:
PhossyJaw · 10/06/2019 13:38

Sheesh, Thinking, I'd be moving on. He sounds self-pitying, and as though he's using his childhood as an alibi for his own laziness. In another few months, he won't want you to go out with your friends, because he hasn't any. And if he's this self-pitying with other people, I can see why he doesn't have a social life -- I wouldn't want to be around someone like that, either.

Does he actually think self-pity is attractive?

RantyAnty · 10/06/2019 14:37

One of my ex was like this. I would end it. These people grind you down over time with their miserable pity party. This is how they are and it never gets better and there is nothing you can do for them.

Divinelyuninspired · 10/06/2019 14:41

It might not be ‘abusive’ or controlling, just a negative pessimistic personality.

TheChildChomper · 10/06/2019 14:46

This sounds very much like an ex of mine. I too began feeling sorry for him, excusing some of his less favourable behaviours as a product of how he'd been treated badly by others

But by month 9 I was already drained and done with it. He enjoyed being a victim which I quickly found tedious and unattractive.

crazyhead · 10/06/2019 14:47

I just would pay attention to how it impacts you. Do you enjoy listening to it all? Do you think you'd feel 'allowed' to be the vulnerable one? Conversely, is he a bit of a vampire for your own sad stuff? Do you get bored by it?

There's a lot of sadness in life for all of us, but personally I need my partner to be upbeat and positive where possible. That way, when you hit a really genuinely horrendous bit (for instance, me and my DH both had to deal with a parent's terminal illness while we had babies) you've got some reserves.

Tomjet · 10/06/2019 14:59

It's b, though he probably thinks he's doing a. Either way, he's testing and conditioning you to conform or walk away.
He's done you a favour really, and good on you for spotting his game. If I were you I'd run a mile!
Wish my ex had done this instead of hiding it all for 15 years then having major mental health and addiction issues and destryoing our lives Sad

Butterflyone1 · 10/06/2019 15:03

I'm surprised I'm the only one that sees it this way but don't you think it's good that he's being so honest with you?

Men are told they need to "man up" and not show emotions but this guy has been raw and honest with you. He has opened himself up to be vulnerable.

Whilst I appreciate it could be draining it being so negative but he clearly trusts you to speak about these things. You could suggest he speaks to a counsellor about these issues if they are affecting him.

If the whole relationship is very negative then I wouldn't want to be in a relationship like this but if he is simply opening up to you about issues then I think this is a good thing.

As for it being too early to talk about these things, I disagree. I'd rather know as much as I can about a person early on than not enough. It would be false hiding these bad things for so long if they still have an impact on him.

Whatisthisfuckery · 10/06/2019 15:05

No OP, just don’t. He sounds just like my ex. Once a victim always a victim, and you’ll never get him to do anything. His victim status will be used as a stick to beat you with. Eventually you’ll feel guilty about going out and meeting friends etc because he’s moping on his own and you’ll stop going anywhere. You’ll be isolated before you know it, and that’s what these sorts want, for them to be the be all and end all in your life. Please dodge this bullet.

Read up on the victim narcissist. My ex is just like that, and let’s face it, whining about how hard done by you are is neither attractive or normal in a new relationship.

FermatsTheorem · 10/06/2019 15:11

Run.

He is either
a) an emotional vampire who will suck you dry

or b) a potential abuser who's testing your boundaries ("all my previous girlfriends have been horrible") to see how gullible you are

or c) both of the above.

Run like the wind.