Am I a boiled frog?

[TiredBrokeFrustrated]

Long-time poster, regular namechanger, first time I’ve started my own thread. Please be gentle - I think I’m about to turn my life upside down.

I’ve been with DP 20 years. Outwardly it looks like a very successful relationship and I’m proud of that. We’ve had our challenges. We got together in haste and had a baby very quickly. We now have 3 teenage DCs. In fairness to DP, he’s been a good dad in practical terms. He liked babies and put the hours in, in terms of nappies, bottles, school stuff, etc. Everyone thinks he’s wonderful, partly in comparison with some less than stellar dadly performances in our circle of friends, and partly because DP is Mr Nice Guy, gets on with everyone, sidesteps conflict.

Over 20 years we’ve had two main areas of conflict. One is our sex life, which was never very thrilling and has dwindled to nothing. I’ve asked myself the usual questions (medical? affair? porn? gay?) but I don’t think so. I think he is quite asexual and also the importance of sex to me is something he sees as a bit sleazy (I’m actually quite vanilla, just not dead from the neck down!) and is something he can use to control me. The other is housework/wifework. He thinks he pulls his weight in the house, and admittedly is better than some, but is fantastically messy and our lifestyle is one of domestic chaos, both physical (dirty house, overgrown garden) and symbolic (unpaid bills, unopened letters). We both work full-time, for context. He earns more than me but that’s because my work hours are very curtailed by the amount of shitwork that gets piled on me. We’re both self-employed and partners in each other’s businesses. He does the books for both and deals with HMRC for both of us (I know, I know). Last year, he didn’t file the tax return for my business. The first I knew about it was when we each got a £2K fine for late filing (there had been warning letters but he hadn’t opened them). I went ballistic, I felt it was a complete betrayal. He apologised a lot but eventually got pissed off at how furious I was. He apologises constantly about anything and everything, but nothing ever changes.

Lately, I’ve had a stressful time with work and I’ve lost my elasticity for this stuff. I started to think about separation a couple of months ago. The trigger was a domestic task he’d said he would do and didn’t (trivial in itself but this happens several times a day: cue all the sorry-sorry stuff). I started reading about the mental load and emotional labour and realised that I do absolutely all of it. He takes no initiative, ‘doesn’t see’ household mess or tasks, has to be asked/told to ‘help’, yet rushes to the scene like a boy scout the minute I begin doing anything. He also piles his emotional load on to me. He doesn’t cope well with stress and tends to pass it on. I sometimes feel like a repository for all the problems in the house.

For a long time, I thought I was stressy and controlling, constantly finding fault, feeling dissatisfied, imposing solutions, but lately I’ve come to feel that it’s him who is controlling me. Not hearing, not noticing, forgetting, procrastinating are all classic passive-aggressive personality traits, I now realise. He doesn’t do direct conflict - we almost never argue properly and healthily - but it seems clear now that he’s been waging a 20-year campaign of passive aggression against me. I don’t know why, or if it’s even me it’s directed at. He may not know himself.

I am really fed up of being in charge of everything all the time. I’m also fed up with the lack of intimacy but at this point don’t want to be intimate with him anyway - his behaviour has really done damage to the feelings between us. There are 3 DCs to think of and not a lot of money in the pot (plus a lot of debt, but that’s a whole other thread). I’m thinking I want to start again on my own (plus DCs). I dream of a less stressful life where I can control my own finances, take proper charge of the grown-up stuff and just not have to do battle very, very indirectly all the time. I feel really tired. My health isn’t great and I wonder if all those problems would clear up if I just cut him out of the picture.

I’m scared of chucking away 20 years with a man who isn’t all bad, by a long chalk. But then I think of that £4K tax fine and think that that probably ought to have been a dealbreaker right there. I’ve been so worried in the past about all the ‘forgetting’ to do things, that I actually urged him to get his hearing checked (perfect) and see the doctor about early-onset dementia (not the problem either). This is quite extreme, isn’t it? When I write it like that I start to feel he's really done a bit of a number on me. Have I just got so used to his uselessness that I can’t see the wood for the trees? Should I run for the hills before I have a complete nervous breakdown? What do you guys think? What would you do?

Have you had counselling? I think you need it. You need to get clear on what is happening inside you, and inside the relationship, what your needs and values are and to what extent this relationship is meeting those or stamping all over them.

Your dp sounds like he's clueless, annoying and shit, and he may be doing it on purpose, but even if he isn't, do you want to be with someone who lets you down all the time, no matter whether he means it or not?

God no. I would be out of there so fast. You have checked out and I don't blame you! I would have long before you have. Get thee to a solicitor and get the ball rolling. Life is too short to tolerate this level of crapitude and you will always be wondering where the next massive fuck up will come from. Mental peace will come once you have control of your life back.

You have standards, self-worth, self-esteem and exceptional insight. Normally 20 years of conditioning erodes these traits, you know what you need to do here.

How many times have you tried to bring up the issues?

ie, at a quiet time, to give him clear warning that you have nearly had enough?

And take over the taxes.

Sorry, forgot to ask, how does he react (apart from sorry sorry) when you do?

For your health and mental health, you know what to do!
You can't go on like this and he certainly won't change.
So what does separation look like?
Would you move out?
Would he move out?
What about the debt and the mortgage?
I think you need to tell him exactly what you have told us.
You've had enough and are ready to end it.
See what he says to that.
He will change - for a month or so.
But that will give you a bit of space to get all your ducks in a row.

I dream of a less stressful life where I can control my own finances, take proper charge of the grown-up stuff and just not have to do battle very, very indirectly all the time

You could also get a shag without being made to feel sleazy .

I’m with SimplySteve. I am in awe of your insight into this problem. Nothing wrong with you at all. You’ve simply, ‘woken up’.

Time to start planning the rest of your life. Get thee to a solicitor. This is what they are for.

I hope the debt isn't solely in your name. That's a trick a lot of people play.

It would be good for your kids to have a home that wasn't dirty and disorganised. I wonder what your husband's house would be like if he lived alone and had no-one else to blame it on.

It sounds like it could be salvageable if you’ve not gone gone too far for that but I really wouldn’t blame you if you just drew a line and moved on. I feel for you

Oh gosh, thank you all for replying to such a long vomit of self-pity. Just catching up with people's posts.

rvby I went to a preliminary session with a counsellor and talked myself stupid, then paid her £45 and thanked her for listening (which felt a bit weird, especially when she'd barely stifled a yawn in the middle), but then I couldn't go for the following two weeks and had to pay her anyway. And I thought, hang on, if I can sock away £200 a month without anyone noticing, there may be better things to be spending it on. So I've been putting it into premium bonds for now in the hope it will turn into a sum I can clear my tax debt with. This is not like me - either the subterfuge or the common sense.

I did find that session helpful. Just to say it all out loud gave me a sense that things had got completely out of hand without me really noticing, but counsellors are trained not to widen their eyes and say, 'He did what!?' which is what made me think a MN thread might be helpful for perspective. I'm happy to be told I'm being a bit harsh on him, though.

I would do couples counselling with him if he asked to. I think it might give him better insight into why I'm half way out the door, which might make things more amicable if we separate. But I think I would put it to him that he should arrange it, and then see if he actually does. We talked about it once before, years ago, and it fizzled out as a suggestion for exactly the reason that he said he would sort it out and didn't.

The trouble is this is what you’ve both been doing for twenty years. This is the dance you’ve been doing.
Keep control of your own money you can do your own tax returns, couldn’t muck it up much worse, and just stop doing all the donkey work. Just stop refuse to do it.
You could try counselling for both of you, but he had no reason to do anything differently at the moment.
Learned incompetence I think they call it.

Violent I think it's true that I've checked out, yes, but that's very recent. If you'd asked me a year ago, even six months ago, I'd have said there were problems but we were basically solid. Somehow things suddenly feel very different and I don't entirely know why, which is what's making me hesitate. Like I said, I think the work stress is making me less tolerant of things I had previously accepted just as part of life, and wondering just exactly why I'm expected to put up with them. But part of me is also wondering if I'm just having a midlife crisis or something, and worrying that leaving him will all seem like a massive overreaction in a year's time. I think that will be the line he takes when we really start talking turkey, which is why I need some outside perspective before we do.

You are also spot on about the stress of wondering when and what the next big fuck up will be. There are small fuck ups every day. I started off being tolerant and absorbing all the crises. Then I became exasperated and incredulous. Right now, I'm just coming to the end of a sarcastic phase. I don't want us to get to the point where we're making cutting remarks in front of the children constantly, so the only other choice is indifference, which seems like a waste of a life. I don't know if he's escalating in uselessness or if I've just woken up to it and can't stop seeing it everywhere.

Mental peace sounds good.

Thank you to those who complimented my insight and for everyone's kindness generally. I thought you would all have a go at me for letting him take control of the finances so comprehensively. I'm not very good with money. We never had any growing up and living from payday to payday is normal for me. Easy come, easy go. I had a massive change of career a few years ago and have had to get to grips with budgets and business plans, which is right out of my comfort zone. I'm smart, and I know I can learn how to do my tax affairs - and as Lllot says, I could hardly fuck it up worse - but it was just easier to let him get on with it, especially when there's always so much else taking up my time.

I don't suspect him of any financial irregularity (in terms of embezzlement or the like) and I wouldn't say he's financially abusive, although an unintended consequence of our arrangements is that I don't have 'my own' money, but then neither does he - as far as I know, though I do wonder where it all goes sometimes. I opened a separate bank account when we were going through a bad patch a few years ago, so I can sock money away without scrutiny, and I've been in the habit of using it to build a cushion up for the moments when he drops a bombshell about an unpaid bill that's gone toxic because he didn't open the first 3 reminders or something. Actually, that's happened quite often now I think about it. All the household bills are in his name because we have different surnames and the utilities wouldn't put them in both (or not 20 years ago), so I often don't see bills til it's too late.

The debt is huge. It would be fantastically outing to say what caused it, but suffice to say it wasn't regular spending, but something awful that someone did to us. It was only his fault in that if he'd been more assertive it might not have happened, but it still might have. I was not as savvy as I should have been either. More of it is in my name than his, but he has plenty too. He is better placed to get family help paying it off if we separate. I think I would probably have to make it a condition of selling the house that ALL the debt is paid off before anyone gets any proceeds, which in turn will probably mean there won't be any.

Only you can say whether you want to carry on. One thing you do know for certain is that he won't change. He knows fine well that you want him to be so much 'better' but he either is totally incapable of that or he doesn't give a rap enough to try. Either prospect has the same result. You carrying on being the adult of the pair of you and him having essentially an easy ride of it. Go for the mental peace option. Get the house sold, debts paid and a clean sheet. There's nothing more terrifying than when you can't see the edges of your own world!

Why can't you open the letters/bills? Then they wouldn't get missed.

I was in a not dissimilar relationship-22 yrs and young adult DCs later, I left. Unplanned, not at all well handled by me, but I simply fell off the cliff I'd been slowly inching towards all those years.

My relationship with him is far better now I don't get irritated by his procrastination and dithering, and don't feel the awful resentment of having a partner but no intimacy. He notices me now where I was invisible before. We have only good times together now when we meet, which we do regularly, for fun. We have a far deeper intimacy now, as people, (not sexually) having spent the last 18 months talking, in couple counselling, and our own counselling.

There is huge joy in being able to decide x and make it happen without having to go via Mr Procrastination. In managing my own life. There is a huge untangling, for me, of the crappy bits of me that grew in reaction to him, and the crappy bits of me that are mine alone (plenty of that!). It's peaceful no longer having that endless churn of am I a bad person or is he, is he intolerable or am I unreasonable, is this it and can I stand it...

Don't know if one persons experience helps one jot, but mostly I'm saying that it sounds to me like you might be closer to the edge than you think, and regardless of how much better things are for me and for my ex now, the cost to our DC of the abrupt manner of my leaving was undoubtedly high and I wish very much that my ex and I had arrived together at the decision to part. But of course that is a pipe dream when part of the problem is a DP who won't be pro active and collaborative.

The thing about the "midlife crisis" is that it's about taking stock of your life, realising your own mortality, and how "this" could be it. It's not foolishness. IMO.

Heading into my 40s I started thinking, is this what I want the rest of my life to be like? My ex had had so many chances and we went round and round in the same patterns, and basically the answer was no, I didn't. All there was to look forward to with him was more of the same.

He sounds rubbish, but like you say 20 years is a long time.
Are you able to have a proper conversation - not one where he avoids conflict.
Maybe have a therapy session together outline your issues, and look for real meaningful change, one small thing at a time.

I think it's possible to get yourself in a negative mindset and think everything is terrible. Maybe write down the good things about him - are there enough? Are they worthwhile things? Is he, does he, or could he contribute anything positive to your life?

When we argue we try to apologise but also then say what we each will do to negate that situation in future. The argument doesn't stop until we find a path forward that is better.
Which can be exhausting and maybe you're just done already, but it helps reduce the build up of issues.

For those saying why can OP not open the bills or do x, y and z, the way I understand it is that she is already pretty much doing everything. And the bit her husband is supposed to be doing, he is messing up on to huge financial cost and how at the cost of her respect of him.

At which point, I think it must feel like he does not respect you Tired, because otherwise he would pull his weight and not pull you down with the disorganised, messy chaos.

The £200 a month would go somewhat to covering your first consultation with a solicitor to get proper legal advice on where you stand financially. It seems that there are two things:

If the house needs to be sold to clear debt, then at least you are not squirrelling money away to do this. You would be able to save your money (plus, your own place would be neat and tidy). This presumes you will have enough capital to get a new place to live.

How you disentangle the businesses.

I think your mental health and overall health would improve if this was sorted out. This must be dragging you down because you are carrying a huge mental load and the atmosphere sounds quite toxic.

I think control comes in many ways, and this does not look like coercive control on the surface. But it does not look healthy either. And in the end, what you call it does not matter, the point is that you are unhappy and it is making you poorer and sick. Just do a cost-benefit calculation about how much it will cost you to stay, versus starting to wrap up things and move on - and peace of mind is priceless.

I could have written your original post to describe my current situation. I've been with DH for 27 years and we have 3 DC. He is seemingly "perfect" but the constant lack of intimacy and sex has ground me down and I've been left feeling crap about myself. We've had counselling twice in the past but nothing has really changed and I've finally come to a realisation that I can't do this anymore so I told him six weeks ago that I'm leaving him. Being in the house with a man begging you to stay has been hideous especially when everyone else thinks you're the bitch as "why would you leave all this?". I've found a house today and it looks like going. I blame hormones, mid life crisis, mental health issues all sorts but whatever it is, I've never got to this point before so it must mean something. You sound to me like you also know what you need to do. Have courage, take the next step. It sounds like you know yourself well enough to know this relationship isn't right for you anymore.

Just caught up with the thread. I'm blown away by people's generosity in writing so thoughtfully. And I asked for a reality check and it seems like I'm not being unreasonable in my expectation of better than this. So I'm grateful for that too.

To answer some questions:

Why can't you open the letters/bills? Then they wouldn't get missed.

I very rarely see them. He has a little office space at home where everything like that ends up. It looks like something out of the last days of Pompeii. I literally struggle to get in there still less find anything in it. If I posted a photo you would all be horrified. We're meant to be clearing it out to repurpose for one of the kids to use (for something important). That was 3 or 4 strata ago. DC recently asked me to intervene to get the job done. DC has been really patient about it (like 18 months-worth). The bills are in some respects the least of it.

I wonder what your husband's house would be like if he lived alone and had no-one else to blame it on.

HollowTalk You have me bang to rights here. He lived like a pig when I met him. His flat was like a student house - dirty plates on the living room floor, unopened post all over the kitchen surfaces, dirty bathroom. I can’t pretend I have any excuse for not knowing how he lived. I suppose I thought family life would mellow him. Stupid, I now realise.

Lady Sutch We’ve talked in the past about the things that drive me to the brink, but always in anger. I flip out about every two or three years and let rip about how nothing changes and I just can’t stand it anymore. His response is always to purse his lips and listen for a bit, and then he just says, ‘You’re right. I’m being crap. I’m sorry and I’ll do better from now on.’ Almost word for word every time. It’s calculated to take the wind out of my sails and works eventually. I can’t sustain anger for long and unless I actually do leave there are very few options for dealing with someone who won’t engage in conflict. But, as I’m now realising, he has his own ways of doing battle. I think he probably learned this from his parents. Reportedly, they went through a phase of arguing bitterly - plate throwing, packing suitcases and walking out, the works - and he hated it. I can hardly imagine it looking at them now, but his mother is very passive-aggressive so this is probably her coping strategy that he’s taken on. I know I need to lay things out calmly so we can talk like adults about it (or try) but I realise that once I do, the genie will probably be out of the bottle forever. I suppose I've wanted to be clearer about what I want first, hence the need for a reality check.

I wonder if he could have ADHD if he is that disorganised, forgetful and always in chaos?