Am I a boiled frog?

[TiredBrokeFrustrated]

Long-time poster, regular namechanger, first time I’ve started my own thread. Please be gentle - I think I’m about to turn my life upside down.

I’ve been with DP 20 years. Outwardly it looks like a very successful relationship and I’m proud of that. We’ve had our challenges. We got together in haste and had a baby very quickly. We now have 3 teenage DCs. In fairness to DP, he’s been a good dad in practical terms. He liked babies and put the hours in, in terms of nappies, bottles, school stuff, etc. Everyone thinks he’s wonderful, partly in comparison with some less than stellar dadly performances in our circle of friends, and partly because DP is Mr Nice Guy, gets on with everyone, sidesteps conflict.

Over 20 years we’ve had two main areas of conflict. One is our sex life, which was never very thrilling and has dwindled to nothing. I’ve asked myself the usual questions (medical? affair? porn? gay?) but I don’t think so. I think he is quite asexual and also the importance of sex to me is something he sees as a bit sleazy (I’m actually quite vanilla, just not dead from the neck down!) and is something he can use to control me. The other is housework/wifework. He thinks he pulls his weight in the house, and admittedly is better than some, but is fantastically messy and our lifestyle is one of domestic chaos, both physical (dirty house, overgrown garden) and symbolic (unpaid bills, unopened letters). We both work full-time, for context. He earns more than me but that’s because my work hours are very curtailed by the amount of shitwork that gets piled on me. We’re both self-employed and partners in each other’s businesses. He does the books for both and deals with HMRC for both of us (I know, I know). Last year, he didn’t file the tax return for my business. The first I knew about it was when we each got a £2K fine for late filing (there had been warning letters but he hadn’t opened them). I went ballistic, I felt it was a complete betrayal. He apologised a lot but eventually got pissed off at how furious I was. He apologises constantly about anything and everything, but nothing ever changes.

Lately, I’ve had a stressful time with work and I’ve lost my elasticity for this stuff. I started to think about separation a couple of months ago. The trigger was a domestic task he’d said he would do and didn’t (trivial in itself but this happens several times a day: cue all the sorry-sorry stuff). I started reading about the mental load and emotional labour and realised that I do absolutely all of it. He takes no initiative, ‘doesn’t see’ household mess or tasks, has to be asked/told to ‘help’, yet rushes to the scene like a boy scout the minute I begin doing anything. He also piles his emotional load on to me. He doesn’t cope well with stress and tends to pass it on. I sometimes feel like a repository for all the problems in the house.

For a long time, I thought I was stressy and controlling, constantly finding fault, feeling dissatisfied, imposing solutions, but lately I’ve come to feel that it’s him who is controlling me. Not hearing, not noticing, forgetting, procrastinating are all classic passive-aggressive personality traits, I now realise. He doesn’t do direct conflict - we almost never argue properly and healthily - but it seems clear now that he’s been waging a 20-year campaign of passive aggression against me. I don’t know why, or if it’s even me it’s directed at. He may not know himself.

I am really fed up of being in charge of everything all the time. I’m also fed up with the lack of intimacy but at this point don’t want to be intimate with him anyway - his behaviour has really done damage to the feelings between us. There are 3 DCs to think of and not a lot of money in the pot (plus a lot of debt, but that’s a whole other thread). I’m thinking I want to start again on my own (plus DCs). I dream of a less stressful life where I can control my own finances, take proper charge of the grown-up stuff and just not have to do battle very, very indirectly all the time. I feel really tired. My health isn’t great and I wonder if all those problems would clear up if I just cut him out of the picture.

I’m scared of chucking away 20 years with a man who isn’t all bad, by a long chalk. But then I think of that £4K tax fine and think that that probably ought to have been a dealbreaker right there. I’ve been so worried in the past about all the ‘forgetting’ to do things, that I actually urged him to get his hearing checked (perfect) and see the doctor about early-onset dementia (not the problem either). This is quite extreme, isn’t it? When I write it like that I start to feel he's really done a bit of a number on me. Have I just got so used to his uselessness that I can’t see the wood for the trees? Should I run for the hills before I have a complete nervous breakdown? What do you guys think? What would you do?

OP, he is not your best friend. He has sabotaged your career. And as for phoning the kids sick off school as he was too lazy to get up - there are no words! These are not the actions of someone who has your back, but an opponent.

The more you post, the more I feel you would benefit from personal counselling. It would be a safe space for you to get it all out, and explore whether you want to save your marriage.

My situation has many parallels to yours; I did therapy (via Relate) on my own about 18 months ago & for me it has been life-changing. I have co-dependent traits & that's how I ended up in this sorry mess.

Maybe you have co-dependant traits too?

I'm glad you found the Banshee threads. The most useful one I found was the "Incompetent Husband" threads - I'm not sure if they have been deleted, but many of the OP's posts have been redacted. But they were an amazing insight into the world of living with passive-aggressive abuse.

Can I ask what you are getting out of your relationship with your DP? And how he meets your needs?

I agree about counselling. You've gained great insights into a lot of this but counselling would give you a sounding board that would help in decision making.

Have been lurking on your thread OP and wondering if I've somehow managed to write it without remembering. Other than the money stuff and some other details it could be me. My OH is completely conflict-averse and any display of emotion on my part is greeted with baffled silence and incomprehension, so that I end up feeling like some sort of deranged drama queen for starting any kind of 'discussion' over his disengagement from matters both practical and emotional.

In RL I'm actually quiet and rather reserved and I'm pretty sure I'm not BU; I've just become divorced from what's acceptable after living with him for 20+ years. But his reaction is to look wounded and after a long period of silence (ie more disengagement) to say 'I'm sorry I'm such a disappointment to you'.

Which doesn't help anything and, more to the point, isn't actually taking any responsibility.

Good luck to you, OP, it's very hard.

These are not the actions of someone who has your back, but an opponent.

I have thought very hard about this for an hour or so, and don't entirely accept it. Yes, he has behaved badly, and the way he behaved when I was trying to retrain was very bad indeed. It was a very difficult time and I came as close to leaving him as I've ever done, until now. I only stayed because the children were still small and only after a carefully calculated cost/benefit analysis. There were other factors in my decision to drop out of my course too. My mother, who was still around then, also sabotaged me very badly. It all added up to an intolerable situation. But yes, he was crap, and I'm under no illusions about that. Together with the tax fine from last year, it's one of the things I will never really forgive him for.

It's only sensible for me to regard his behaviour as aggressive, so that I can understand it, anticipate it and plan better, but I am 100% sure about the fact that he is not doing this consciously. He has behaved badly, but he is not a bad person. He is a fucked up person and I need to think about how continuing to be in a relationship with him is affecting me, my life path, my health, my happiness. In many ways, he does have my back. He is not my enemy. But I do accept that I have to do a new cost/benefit analysis and that the result will probably fall differently this time.

It is true that I have co-dependent characteristics. I had a shoddy childhood and the only reason I'm not a people pleaser is because I have a devil streak that hates to be compliant! It's actually a survival characteristic. I've been in some desperately unhealthy relationships in the past, but am also quite capable of saying fuck it and walking out. I had low self-esteem for a lot of my life and am prone to depressions, but I've done a lot of work on myself and respect myself more than in the past. I don't rule out counselling at some point, though, or perhaps even long-term psychotherapy.

To answer your question, Prosecco, he meets one very key need for me: he 'gets' me - and he appreciates the person that he understands me to be. He does love me, I know that. But of course that's not really relevant if he can't stop himself from behaving so badly that my head explodes from the stress of it all.

I think one of the hardest things to contemplate is the scale of the destruction that will follow if (when) I pull the plug. We are very enmeshed in each other's business dealings - it's not just the tax, but other things too. It will be very hard to disentangle and may be easier just to wind up the business and start again with a new venture. I feel just about strong enough to put a bomb under my relationship, but not necessarily to put a bomb under my entire life. This will negatively affect home, work, finances, friendships, my position in my community (it's a community business), other people's livelihoods, perhaps my ability to stay in this area if my finances take a complete shit. And my children are really bad ages to be uprooted. I feel very tired just thinking about it all, tbh.

But I feel already that I've moved on from 'whether' to 'when' and 'how', so thank you all for your advice. It really helps, hard though some of it is to hear.

You could find yourself responsible for his debts by being a partner in his business if that makes losses. You need to cover that, and his partnership with you, when you see the lawyer.

A successful marriage is one in which both parties are fulfilled and happy with the set up and treatment they receive Op, not the length of time it lasts.
You describe a number of ways in which you are not compatible which hinder your fulfillment and happiness (and career and finances). He may be a number of positive things as a person, and other people might thing well of him but it only matters how he treats you I'm the marriage, goes considerate he is of you (not very) and how appreciative he is of you (not very). He may well have 'stepped up' for the DC when you had them but again, that was because it was something he liked doing. It wasn't 'for you' or presumably he wouldn't have. I think the depth of (justified) resentment you have is difficult to come back from and requires change on his part that 20 years haven't so far produced.

I would look up sunk cost fallacy and the ways in which it applies to the the thoughts you are having.

No business debts, fortunately! At last, a silver lining!

I would start with the things you can change.

See a solicitor about going your separate ways - so you know where you stand.

Get another person to do your business accounts it will be cheaper then a 4k late payment charge. And I'm sure he did this to sabotage you business like he did with your degree.

And as for 'his office space' which he keeps a mess so you can not find things, take this week end and go through every piece of paper in there. Shred and throw any rubbish away. Remove all your paper work from there, and tell him he is not to put anything addressed to you in there. Have a place for it where you can see it so you know what needs addressing.

I would also if possible start decluttering your home. I personally find myself getting more stressed if my surrounding are cluttered and 'out of control'.

Yes, decluttering! I flipped out a bit recently and the place is looking a bit better already. And as for his man cave, well, he's away this weekend, so who knows what he might return to. Not that I have the time really. The problem isn't that he purloins my post, btw, it's that all the utilities are in his name, because they all seem to have such a problem with two different surnames on the account.

I doubt he fucked up the tax return to sabotage the business. Or at least I don't follow that argument. We're both partners, so the fine equates to £2K each, in our personal names, not the business. It doesn't affect the business (which ran at a loss that year anyway), only us personally - him too.

It's good to focus on what you can control, though, although it does translate into 'me doing all the stuff' yet again.

@Clutterbugsmum - that's just OP having to take responsibility- yet again - to sort out his crap.

So the cycle perpetuates.

But instead, she's stepped back, reflected & is realising she can't control his behaviour (as he's P-A) but ultimately is struggling to find a way forward since he won't co-operate. Her choices are to do it all herself, it for it not to be done by him.

No it's about TiredBrokeFrustrated getting into a better place mentally.

By clearing the rubbish and clutter in the 'office' and house makes it a clearer space for her to either having a clearer idea of what her H is hiding from her and if she decides to leave then she has already got rid of stuff that neither needed or wanted.

But as I SAID it's what I would do not what TiredBrokeFrustrated has to do.

It struck me that one of the points on Bidermann’s chart of coercion is monopoly of perception. Your husband is taking up an awful lot of your headspace in trying to work out what is going on.
In terms of needing a solicitor, I would say it is certainly beneficial as you have joint assets. It would be helpful to know whose is what legally speaking, I think.
In terms of child arrangements, you only need a solicitor or at least a mediator if you disagree. The DC sound old enough to express an opinion which makes things easier.

@Clutterbugsmum - apologies, I misread your post (the dangers of multi-tasking).

I think it could be very enlightening to take control of the office . Who knows what OP could find? Better to know that not, I think.

Well, now I'm confused. The office does need clearing out so we can get DC's stuff in there. But it really would not be enlightening. It contains literally years' worth of bits of paper - old envelopes, receipts for sandwiches from Tesco, bus tickets, all those vouchers they pile on you in WHSmith every time you buy a piddly little birthday card, biros that don't work, reading glasses with old prescriptions and broken arms, drawings made by much younger DCs, letters about night-time roadworks long since come and gone, leads for electrical things we don't have anymore...I'm extemporising but you get the picture. All intimately jumbled up with important business paperwork, receipts that need to be kept, certificates from school, instruction booklets we actually could use, photos, things I need to find a new place for if they're not to be balanced precariously all over the place til I do. Boxes and boxes of the stuff. It's a job of work, no more, no less. Not one I'm entirely qualified to do, as there'll be so much I have to run by him before I can make a decision about it. (Plus I'm working this weekend.)

So I think you were right first time, Prosecco, unless I'm missing something. It's a real pig of a job and it would be better for my mental health if he would bloody well do it himself instead of me having to, as usual.

I split with my h a year ago. I was ground down with just doing everything. Life is much better now - I am in control of all the money and organised (he spent loads on crap)I also don't mind doing stuff - before I used to resent ur because he spent most of the time sitting on his arse!

I've been there, and i left. It took a long time, but it dawned on me that i was being passive aggressively railroaded into doing the mental work for the entire family, but that i got no thanks or reward for it and was actually undermined All. The. Time.

What i was doing was madly facilitating a nice life for everyone else and sacrificing myself. Why? Fuck that shit.

It was emotionally hard. I will be bitter for the foreseeable. But, im having fun and much healthier now im not under constant strain, too much for one person.

I was in this situation too OP. He just didn’t see mess. He was utterly bone idle with house, financial, social matters etc. It ground me down, I was physically and mentally exhausted. I tried telling him over and over again. I took him out to talk properly and make him realise how serious I was. He walked out on that occasion and left me alone in the restaurant.
I think when you know you’re done you emotionally check out of the relationship. I did. I focussed on what I wanted. It wasn’t easy but 4 years on I own my own clean and tidy home, I’m in charge of my own finances and I do exactly as I want when I want. I’ve never ever looked back

OP, how are you getting on?

Could you put the contents of the spare room/office in to boxes to get them out the room, then ask him to sort through them another time? So you get the room your DC need, but don't have to sort through the crap?

I am really fed up of being in charge of everything all the time.

OP, this ^^ is so familiar to me. In fat, much of what you write here is. My ex dh was the same. Also didn't open the tax letters; left all the shitwork to me. Been separated now almost 3 years as a result. I just couldn't stand it any more. I've now met a man who takes adult responsibility for things and my god - the difference is palpable.

I really don't think your dh will change. He's had a lifetime to habituate himself to this way of living. I'd work at equalising your pension, savings, assets - something I failed to do as I was so desperate to get out - and then I'd split.

I'm OK, thanks, Prosecco, just got home from work. I'm thinking I could empty the office out into the bath. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm loving the idea that there are pensions, savings and assets to think about, curtaintrail. I have the premium bonds I bought last month and £1 in an old savings account. Which puts me £201 ahead of him as things stand. He has a fancy guitar, though.

I am going to talk to him tonight.