MIL and FIL imminent - and heavy smokers....

[JayTree]

Help - they are have just informed me that they are going to visit (they never wait for an invite...) and it is likely to be for a while. The main problem (but by no means the only one) is that they are both seriously heavy smokers - of the nasty harsh cheap type of cigarettes to make it even worse. Our house is tiny and has no ideal room to demote to the status of smoking lounge! Even the kitchen is an airless room without a back door. I just know that it is going to totally stress me out trying to tactfully keep my dd away from the smoke etc.
To make it worse, when I tactfully mentioned my concerns to dh he went spare. We live really near my parents (my choice) and they see us all the time, we only see his once or twice a year and they have poor health ( not surprising...). He says that it is important that we make them feel really welcome and that I am not to say the slightest thing to make them feel uncomfortable as they have been through a tough time recently etc. etc. I know he has a point but even so....
It would be easier if they enjoyed going out but they are very over weight couch potatoes and all they will want to do is sit, smoke and play with dd. I am totally dreading the entire thing. To give you an idea of how bad their habit is and convince you that I am not over reacting - last time we visited them I went with them to Tescos - they had to have two cigarette breaks during the shop followed by one on the car on the way home!
As an ex smoker myself I try really hard not to be judgemental and make a big effort not to be rude but this is really going to try my patience. AAAAAAGH.

Ellaroo - I wish I could apply your logical and sensible "black and white" point of view to the situation - on one hand I totally agree with you and would love to tell them (kindly) that there is an absolute ban. It just doesn?t seem a realistic option. If I do this I know that visits will dwindle down even further to the point that they miss out almost totally on my child?s life. I know that this would be their decision and their loss - but it is a loss that would be terrible for my dd as well as dh. It would also be one that my husband would find very hard to cope with. He has an awesome amount of respect for his parents and misses them terribly as it is.
Thank you for your message, Copper - it had a slightly different angle to it than most of the other (kind, carefully read and appreciated ) comments and it made me feel a lot more positive about my decision to allow them restricted smoking in our home. Thanks

I know Jasper.

It's tricky but look at this way, if they were doing other things which were harmful to the children, would you ignore it just because it was in their house?

Jbr, they ARE doing other relatively harmful things. Lets just say the stereotypical west of Scotland diet is alive and well in their house

However they are wonderful people and the kids adore them. In an ideal world they would not get fed so much junk at granny's or come home smelling of smoke but hey, it can't all be my way and I have to accept that their house rules apply in their house and that in the great scheme of things I am fortunate to have such great inlaws who are also great grandparents.

It used to annoy me more than it does now .
Dh gets a bit defensive when I have mentioned any of this.
How did you handle it with your fil?

Well, he did used to smoke in the other room but it didn't stop the bags of clothes and things getting covered in smoke.

I used to just try and take the minimum with us. The thing is Jack had a cough for a while when he was really little and one weekend, he was coughing like mad, just off the smell of the clothes.

I wouldn't let ANYONE smoke in the house. My son shouldn't have to breathe carcinogenic fumes just because he is around an addict (sorry, smokers, don't hate you, just the habit!). They should go in the garden. No question. I'm shocked your dh doesn't support you on this.

My parents moved to the UK and needed a base whilst they got themselves sorted out. At the time I was pregnant and had given up smoking when I had a positive pregnancy test. I didn't give my parents any choice - we have never smoked in our home (even before I was pregnant) and NOBODY is allowed to smoke inside. The reason I am posting is because I did make a stand about it and unfortunately it did REALLY offend my parents. At the time they refused to stay with us and they hardly ever visit us now and make a really big deal about having to go outside to smoke. I have stuck to my guns but sometimes wonder if it has been worth damaging the previously great relationship I had with my folks.

I can't believe that you would even consider letting them smoke around your child. There is no question that 2nd hand smoke is damaging and to inflict it on a child who has no choice but to inhale it is positively wrong in my opinion. Both my mil and her "companion" are chain smokers, but when they come and visit I make them smoke outside (even if it's pouring rain) as I'm not interested in inflicting their harmful addictions on my child (or myself for that matter). They are welcome to drink themselves silly and eat all the junk food they want in my home (which they do) as that isn't harmful to anyone else but themselves. I'm sure they think i'm nuts/unreasonable etc., but my son's lungs will thank me for it in the future.

I'vce only just read this thread and am horrified that some people are still so selfish as to inflict their smoke onto others - especially when it is children. I thought that Roy Castle's death had finally shown those non-believers that passive smoking is bad for you (i.e. he died of lung cancer when he'd never smoked a single cigarette in his life, but had worked in smoky clubs for years).

My BIL smoked for years - and never had a problem that we kicked him out into the garden - raining or not - and that was before we had kids.

As soon as I found out I was pregnant with ds my dad gave up smoking so we could visit a smoke free house (however he does still have the occassional pipe but does that outside) and my MIL has also given up so ds can come and go in a smoke free house.

Jaytree-have you got an extractor fan in the kitchen? Doesn't help much but...As everyone has said you are in the right...MIL is a heavy smoker but despite the whinging she has excepted that she has to go outside or in the shed. I don't feel embarrassed at all as she hardly ever visits and I don't want the kids choking or the house/furniture etc stinking for weeks afterwards. I have a big problem with kids stinking of fags!

WOW - never for a minute did expect this thread to get such a huge response - and such a passionate one. We all know the facts and the undisputable medical risks but as dejags says, it is a matter of personal opinion when it comes to waying up the consequences of laying down the law - especially when dealing with in laws/ parents. I admire those of you that can be so black and white about it regardless of other?s opinions and feelings - and I agree that you probably have your priorities correct and yet still I wonder....

If you were between such a rock and a hard place, would you all really be prepared to risk losing face to face contact with two fairly elderly and unhealthy in laws over this issue? If your dh felt so strongly that visits are better than no visits despite the risks, I wonder how you would be able to handle the consequences and emotional fallout, how would you cope with being seen by all as responsible for the inevitable argument? As dejags situation shows, it really isn?t that black and white when you are in the middle of it. If you are able to send all smoking members out of the house with only minor grumbling, reluctant acceptance or understanding then try not to be smug for sticking by your principles, consider yourself lucky that it is all going your way fairly easily. It really is not always that easy. Saying things like "I can?t believe that you would let them.." is a bit harsh - isn?t it ? Or have I tried to weigh up everyone?s feelings and potential consequences and still got it wrong? Please, I feel guilty about it all what ever I decided to do - don?t lay any more guilt on to my shoulders or I am going to emmigrate....
Thanks for all your thoughts - I have appreciated them, even if some of them have made me feel worse!!!

Jaytree - My answer to your question (would you be prepared to sacrifice visits from granparents) is absolutely not!

Passive smoking is obviously a danger, but I haven't seen any studies which compared children who had been exposed to smoking grandparents for a couple of weeks a year to children who hadn't. In fact the only clear cases are those where someone has worked in a bar for 20 years or whatever. I really think that your children will not suffer too much if these visits are occasional and if others don't smoke around them.

I think sometimes the dangers of smoking are overstated anyway. Can't find a cause for something? blame it on smoking. Can they really control for all those other factors which affect smokers more than non-smokers (poverty, poor diet, drinking, cavalier attitude to health generally!)? All kinds of other factors - particularly air pollution - are more important for health and I personally think that one of the biggest factors is happiness. In fact a friend of mine was advised by her doctor not to give up smoking during pregnancy (an unplanned pregnancy that is) as the stress would do the baby more harm than the smoking. Not sure he was totally right there but he certainly had a point.

That said I would certainly point out that you'd rather smoking was kept to a minimum (and to the kitchen), but to avoid arguments, say it once and once only! Best of luck with your visitors

Oh JayTree, don't go feeling worse over this!

Your compromise of them smoking in the kitchen and keeping the kids out is what works for you and that's fine (consider having that extractor fan fitted before Sept for your comfort though!!!). Personally, I think your children knowing their grandparents is more important, although being sensible about it obviously.

There's a lot out there we want to protect our kids from but we can all only do our best (I always worry about particulates in the diesel fumes from the buses in our city centre - so much so that I make my Art Gallery staff close the windows they always want open, to protect the paintings - but I still push my dd past said buses at exhaust-pipe level in her buggy...). Do try and enjoy their visit if you can.

JayTree, when dd was born out-laws came for 3 weeks ( long story ) - now FIL is a very heavy smoker and although he was asked by dh to smoke outside mil said it was too cold (October) and that the weather would kill him. I think the smoking will do that first (diagnosed with lung cancer this april). FIL chose to smoke in our small kitchen without opening back door or window so smoke bellowed back up hall as soon as he left the room. He then started smoking in the bedroom which had all dd's soft toys and clothes as her room was being decorated. He smokes roll-ups so would leave dirty butts in his make shift ashtray lying in the kitchen - not very hygenic - just as well I was breast-feeding and didn't need to sterilise bottles etc. DH said nothing and I quietly seethed. My own Mum smokes outside when visiting me or if I visit her - regardless of the weather. At one point FIL moved a chair into the kitchen to "make himself more comfortable" - suffice to say chair was swiftly removed by myself with a loud "this room is not big enough for a chair". We got through it and dd is a very healthy child however I am annoyed that our wishes were disregarded. When we visit them we come home with a suitcase of smelly clothes. I am an ex smoker so I know the habit can rule your life but with baby no 2 due in sept and out-laws planning to visit (shorter this time please) and now FIL being diagnosed with cancer what can I do? Can I insist that a terminally ill man smoke outside regardless of the weather?? He gets up in the night for a few drags!! I think I can insist but will I have a marriage at the end of it?

I'm sorry JayTree, I didn't mean to sound critical of you. What I was trying to say is that I am amazed that you would feel guilty about asking something so totally reasonable of your in-laws. I wasn't trying to suggest that you were doing anything wrong by not asking. No situation is black and white and we all have our limits about various things. I am sorry that your dh isn't backing you up. In my case even a few visits a year with smoking is an issue as I am asthmatic and as it runs in my family, fully expect my son to be as well. A couple of days of cigarette smoke could kill either of us on the spot if it triggers an attack. It's not just a matter of deciding whether to put up with a stinky inconvenience for a few days.
Anyway, you didn't actually say whether you had ever brought the subject up with them (rather than just your dh). Maybe if they realized how distasteful it was to you they would be happy to smoke outside. (my in-laws may think i'm nuts, but they don't grumble about smoking outside). And there are plenty of other ways to make them feel needed and wanted to make up for it. I always ask my mil for her recipies for desserts and advice on babies (even if i don't actually use any of it).

Jaytree, cant you ask them to smoke outside during the day and evening if the weather is ok and only in the kitchen if raining etc. Surely this is an allround compromise. Surely they wont mind sitting in those nice comfy garden chairs you have bought especially for them for sitting in the garden?

thanks guys, I am trying to be a little calmer about it now!.
They both hail from Scotland so maybe they should be able to cope with the late summer weather outside now and again - will clean up those "comfy" garden chairs and make a go of it.

JayTree I can't add any better advice than you've already had. All I can say is a im a naughty, occasional evening smoker but I never smoke in the house or around dd but also, my mum and grandma are heavy smokers and come around 5 or 6 times a week and never smoke in the house. Even when my mum has dd to stay at hers she and my step dad never smoke in the house !!

I also agree with whoever posted that DH should tell them not you (can't remember who posted that now). It's not your place to but it's definitely his. It is not their right in someone else's house and I would be furious.

Sorry. Don't mean to get you all wound up again just am flabbergasted at the cheek of it

JayTree, my outlaws are from Scotland (Glasgow)too so is it a Scottish thing!!?? I'm surprised they visit at all as apart from the bad water we have here in London and the unfriendly people here and the fact young women cannot cook (oh woe is me as I don't soak everything in lard), our house is too far from anywhere and the traffic is too bad to drive (when offered the car) so I suppose what is there left to do other than smoke and moan? All you Scots out there don't give me any defense as DH has tried and failed.

can i just say that i am a smoking mum of a two and a half year old daughter...i quit while pregnant and then started again(stupid i know)after she was born BUT i have never smoked in my house(even before i had her),my partner is quite anti smoking so i have always gone outside to have a cigarette and do so in other peoples houses i visit too,i even do this when visiting my grandparents house andmy grandfather smokes!
i find it good manners to do this and even if people say its ok to smoke indoors i wont.
i wouldnt feel offende if asked to smoke outside and if your inlaws have any feeling for your child they wouldnt either.

Jaytree - I absolutely sympathise with the position you are in, fortunately I have never been in the position of having to ask someone not to smoke in our house, but I would find it equally difficult to do so to an elderly relative. If your DH is not prepared to ask them I just think you have to accept the situation as it is, for the sake of all your family relationships.

I have to say I think it unlikely that your child would suffer greatly during a short visit from passive smoking; my MIL (before she died from lung cancer, needless to say) was an extremely heavy smoker who smoked throughout her two pregnanices (not such an issue in those days) and DH & his sister were bought up in 'smoking' household - they are both now in their 40s & in very good health - I'm not saying that they won't develop anything in the future - but just that everything has to be put into perspective & in this case, as it is such a difficult situation for both you & DH, I suspect you will just have to put up with it.

Luckily for me, my MIL always went outside to smoke whenever she visited, & since we had a baby she would go in another room to smoke if we visited her at her house. Good luck with the visit.