What am I doing wrong?

[PleaseDontTakeMySunshineAway]

I'm mid 40s. Single for around 8 years apart from a few short flings and content to stay that way, although I would like to see myself in a relationship with someone one day.

The problem I find, repeatedly, is this.

I'm just not what men are looking for. I know, I know, men aren't a homogenous group; I don't need to find hundreds of men who are 'looking for' me, just the one; beauty comes from the inside and all that but I keep having the same recurring issue. They seem to like and be attracted to 'me' but equally seem to be embarrassed to be seen with me and don't seem to find me physically attractive. I've only ever been with one man who I genuinely believed was attracted to me, physically as well as mentally, and it showed.

My relationships have all failed because they've 'struggled' with this and I've got too much self respect to hang around until they manage to come to terms with being with me so I end them.

I feel I'm on a journey to becoming the 'best version of me' and have been on it for the past 8 years. I'm almost unrecognisable from the person I was a decade ago for the better.

In that time, I've met and dated a few men. One of them was very recently. All of them have really liked 'me' but there have been 'tells' that something wasn't quite right.

From suggesting I lose weight even when well within the 'healthy' range; to refusing to introduce me to friends; to not wanting to be seen with me in public locally to their home; to keeping their eyes closed throughout sex (presumably to think of someone else, I don't know!); to avoiding us being seen together by ex gfs; to not being easily sexually aroused when with me; to walking 6 feet in front of me when we were out and not speaking to me; to avoiding all forms of affection in public when I know that they are not generally averse to it.

I so often read on here women reassuring each other that it's what's on the inside that counts but my fragile confidence is being constantly hit by these experiences and I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.

OP .. I think you’ve been brought up to believe you have no worth .. and this has translated into your adult relationships .. if you are giving off the message that you don’t love and value yourself you will attract the wrong type of men .
As for your booty.. err I really don’t think any man who really liked you is going to give a damn !

FuriousVexation The thing is, it hasn't really become an issue until further down the line. Or I haven't been aware of it until then. The ones who expressed any negative comments on the first date were dismissed immediately. I have tended to end the relationship once these issues become apparent. There was only one where I didn't and I was much younger then and didn't realise exactly what was happening until much later.

This is what I mean by I think it's an issue they've been wrangling with. I think they've wanted a relationship and really wanted to find me attractive but, when it came down to it, my 'inner beauty' wasn't enough to cancel out my appearance.

RandomMess Not the ones I meet! I genuinely think it's a bit of a sticking point. They like other things about me but it's definitely a problem.

Mary1935 My mum said it to me repeatedly from when I was about 10 years old when I was still skinny but was obviously going to have an arse. She used to tell me I was "too fat" and "the wrong shape" like it was such a huge negative that it pretty much signed me of as unloveable/unfanciable/unattractive. It was only really a few years ago that I began to think differently.

It’s probably always at the back of your mind - you are waiting for them to “notice” and if they say something “it re-inforces the belief”

This is definitely true.

junebirthdaygirl I understand what you're saying and, in some cases, I'd agree. But the ones I had in mind when I typed them are definitely because of it.

One boyfriend in my 20s used to walk ahead of me and I know it was because he didn't want people to think we were together. He didn't introduce me to his friends for a couple of years and I wasn't allowed to visit him at work (he worked in a pub). He made really feeble excuses but it later came out that both of these were because he was embarrassed to be seen with me. But my mum told him I was lucky to have him and that no one else would want me. So I stuck with him for 12 years.

Space That's probaby true to a degree. Although, I think I mask it a lot and I do come across as quite confident. I don't hide myself away and try to tell myself that I don't give a shit what people think. I feel more confident when I'm single so I don't think I am attracting the wrong sort of men in that respect.

I really don’t think any man who really liked you is going to give a damn !

No one has dumped me for it. But I know it's an issue. They just don't find it attractive. I don't get complimented physically and most of the men I've dated haven't seemed to want to touch me particularly. I can only think it's because they don't find me attractive and aren't drawn to do so. I always finish things when it becomes apparent that my appearance has become an issue for them.

I think the answer is to lose the weight, stick with the exercise and then maybe try again when I look better

The thing is, there's always going to be something, for everyone, that puts a partner/potential partner off right up until you find someone that wants to stay with you. And even then, many women (as you did) find themselves stuck in actual relationships with men that don't like them very much. It's all too common. Finding the right match can take ages and is part of the reason why lots of people settle. You aren't settling and so it's getting frustrating that it's taking a long time, but that's OK and isn't a reflection on you.

Yes, there may be men who would have otherwise been very attracted to you but found the way you looked wasn't quite for them, but I suspect you are massively overestimating the effect of your bottom! The guy who didn't walk next to you for instance - just an arsehole plain and simple. It happens to women at all 'levels' of attractiveness when they are with a nasty man. Nobody nice really thinks about whether another person's bottom embarrasses them - would you?

The chance of the thing you have a huge childhood hangup about actually being the same size of problem as you have it marked out as in your head is tiny. It's a lesson I have had to learn myself excruciatingly slowly. But basically our hangups are mainly ours. There will be some others who agree that x isn't for them, but our own feelings will not be mirrored proportionately across the population. Especially for things like bottoms.

I would change your whole dating ethos. Ban yourself from wondering what they are thinking about your bottom and focus on whether they are acceptable to you. Don't just bin them for finding you unattractive; any hint of meanness or judging other women negatively on their appearance, or tales of many mad exes and you run away as these are men who will find fault with you regardless.

Also is there a particular type of man (or place?) that you go for that you perhaps expand on so you don't keep finding similar guys over and over.

Reading through your comments about men not wanting to walk together in public or not introducing you to your friends, I'd say the problem is not you... its them going out with more than one woman at the same time and not wanting to be accidentially caught out. This lot were not worthy of you.

Sorry, have just been thinking about all this quite a bit today.

I was with the most recent man for a few months and we spent a lot of time together. On the second date, he made a comment about his ex wife having big breasts. It was a factual, neutral comment relevant to an anecdote he was telling me, so I let it go at the time and put it down to nerves/just misjudging the conversation. But did commit it to my mental notebook.

Following that, he did/said nothing to give me cause for concern. If anything, my friends all thought he was lovely. He treated me well, he was kind and thoughtful. His family liked me and told me how much he thought of me. We appeared to be 'very much in love'; no disagreements; open conversation; emotionally literate; very compatible. My children were introduced to him and really liked him. Everything was good and it really started to look like it could go somewhere.

Then the last time we saw each other, I saw him check two women out when we were out. He wasn't gawping but he did look. I'd not seen him doing it before.

Later when we were talking just about 'us' and the relationship etc, I told him I'd noticed. He was shocked and asked if I was sure because it was something he didn't think he did and was mortified that he had. I elaborated and he said "Oh yes, I remember now. I'm really sorry." I said it was ok but I wasn't interested in being with someone who 'checked out' other women in front of me. We had a chat about it and it was all fine but then he followed it up with something along the lines of "I do like a nice pair of boobs but I am really sorry". The last comment was intended to be lighthearted and throwaway and, tbf, the woman in question was attractive and had a very attractive figure - I'd noticed her too. But clearly boobs are a thing for him. Then later, when I was on my own, I realised that he hadn't ever commented (positively or otherwise) about me in that way.

And this is what I mean. My 'inner beauty' wasn't enough to make me 'beautiful' to him overall. He still saw my lack of physical attractiveness and, as much as he wanted to love me and as much as he fell in love with me as a person, physically, I just wasn't doing it for him.

We also went out for the day with some of his friends and he told me afterwards that he was pleased they had been 'discreet' with the photos they'd put on SM. I asked what he meant. Apparently, in the photo of me and him, it was obvious he was with his girlfriend (we were walking ahead holding hands) but were in the distance. I asked him why and he said that his ex gf and friends were connected on SM and she would have seen us. They split up around a year ago and she knew he had met someone else.

So. Not an issue that his ex gf might see a photo of him with his new girlfriend but very much an issue that she might be able to see me in any detail.

This is essentially what I experience every time.

I think you should think about online dating. Get some nice pictures including some flattering ones that show your lovely bum and you will know that any man who asks you out is definitely into it!
I am overweight. I have a big wobbly bum. I know I'm not every man's cup of tea but I have lots of interest online dating because that pre-selects the men who are into my body type.

its them going out with more than one woman at the same time and not wanting to be accidentially caught out

I really don't think it is that though. I have met family and some friends. But close friends who would get to know me as a person not acquaintances who'd judge me on appearances from a distance.

I know why you're saying that and, in one case, it's a possiblity, but not in the others.

Don't just bin them for finding you unattractive; any hint of meanness or judging other women negatively on their appearance, or tales of many mad exes and you run away as these are men who will find fault with you regardless.

Yep, I already do this. The last man I was with only spoke respectfully to and about women. He treated me with respect and described his exwife and him as being increasingly incompatible as they got older rather than criticising her per se. He was also quite self aware in terms of what he got wrong in the relationship and could have done differently.

Sleep Actually, your whole post made a lot of sense to me (and made me smile!) and I do understand what you're saying. I feel quite contrary responding with "yes but..." but it's the same thing each time that puts men off.

You're right though, it is a massive hang up for me

....’but a size 12/14 covered in a layer of fat round bum......’

I think I’m a little in love with you already 😍

A lot of men would much prefer a big round bum to a scrawny skinny one. I know i do!

Be confident in yourself. I know its easier said than done.

However big it is it can’t be that bad surely and probably better than a flat bum which many of us are afflicted with!

So. Not an issue that his ex gf might see a photo of him with his new girlfriend but very much an issue that she might be able to see me in any detail.

Believe me when I say i'm not someone who sees the good in people; but I think you've got that completely wrong. He meant a discrete distant photo showing an ex is in a new relationship, not a closeup, smiling face, possibly hugging etc. one of the happy couple - is easier to deal with. They know their ex is with someone else but it's not rubbed in their face, hurtfully.

Thank Codename but I can't think of anything worse than online dating! I tried it once and hated it.

Glad it's working for you though

And don't you get anyone who later turns out to have an issue?

When I did it, I had a head shot and two full length shots - one from the front and one from the side where it was clear I'm not a skinny minnie and am quite curvy. These men all claimed to like curvy women and not to have a problem with it until it became an issue.

I think that's all he meant.

You're not obese, you're below average size. You have a big/round arse; lots of men like that. Lots of men hate small, skinny, flat arses.

You're projecting.

Your mother had fucked your head up with this.

*has

I don't think these relationships finished for the reason you think they did. I don't think it's that simple.

Haha Otter Thanks. Thing is, they've all known. I mean, I dress well so it's not 'in your face' but when the clothes are off, there it is. And the reality is an issue.

Divinely I don't really have an issue with it personally. But it is an issue for me in relationships and clearly not just for me.

Moralitym1n1 Thank you. That hadn't even occurred to me

These men all claimed to like curvy women and not to have a problem with it until it became an issue.

To clarify - these men weren't met on online dating other than the one who I think might have been seeing other people too.

There's a lot to discuss in your posts, but just to add; few people get into relationships with partners they find physically perfect. They find them, on the whole, attractive - and are compatible in other ways e.g. values, personality. Many people compromise/disregard physical things they don't find ideal; as long as they are overall attracted and get along. No offence bug I think you have an over simplistic view of attraction, compatability etc.and it's not doing you ant favours; though the biggest issue is this insecurity and projection about something that's actually minor.

No, that's honestly never happened. I mean, I've dated men who haven't been interested after a few dates but I've never had the impression it was because of my body. I've had nothing but appreciation for my curves my personality is a different matter

Thank you Moralitym1n1 No offence taken - it's really useful to get another perspective. I don't really have anyone in real life to go over these things with.

I probably do have an over simplistic view of attraction etc. I do tend to evaluate myself in terms of 'that is attractive'; 'that is unattractive'. And I know that, when I look at other people, I tend to see them as greater than the sum of their parts.

The thought of someone having to 'compromise' or disregard less attractive aspects of me makes me feel very insecure and vulnerable to being compared unfavourably to/replaced by someone who doesn't require those compromises.

I feel very temporary and don't really have any experience of being in a good relationship.

I feel very temporary and don't really have any experience of being in a good relationship.

I think that is the essence of your previous relationships - you have yet to experience being in a good one.

You should ask yourself why you would spend 12 years (12 years????) with a man who wouldn't walk next to you. You have been raised to expect little from men, and therefore that is what you will get from them.

We all make mistakes. Partly going out with different people is learning where your own boundaries lie. And yours are almost non existent.

You deserve love and respect and from what you have written you have yet to be in a relationship where you have had this.

A man who truly loves you will love your arse - big, small or somewhere in between.

You need to love yourself first and foremost. I think you are projecting your fear on to them, or giving them false reasons for the relationships not working g out.

You sound like an intelligent woman with little to no self esteem. This is what you need to work on - not dieting or going to the gym.

For many years I chose men just like my father - men who didn't like strong, independent women (which is what I am). It took me a very long time to realise that I was actively choosing the wrong type of men. It took me a long time to say enough is enough. It was only when I was confident in myself, my looks (pretty average) my personality that I finally found someone deserving of me.

I spent too long wondering why these men were with me, why I wasn't good enough when I should have spent the time thinking are they good enough for me? They weren't. Plain and simple.

I changed my mindset.

I do hope that you can work on yourself - you sound pretty fab to me.

Wow minmooch that was hard to read but I can see what you're getting at.

Yes, I was brought up to expect very little from men - mainly because I was brought up to believe I had nothing to offer - including the attributes required for a relationship or to be loved. So I was encouraged/told to hold onto the first man who showed an interest and not let go. Along with being told to manage my own behaviour so that he didn't have cause to dump me. Any 'issues' were my fault and I needed to try harder.

I agree completely with dating lots of different people to discover where your boundaries are, I have done this and, believe it or not, my boundaries are now far better than they were before

A man who truly loves you will love your arse - big, small or somewhere in between.

That's what I want to believe. But how will I know? How do I know if I'm reading a situation correctly or not?

You sound like an intelligent woman with little to no self esteem.

Pretty much sums me up I don't know how to get that self esteem though. Believe it or not, that's a lot better than it used to be too. I've done loads of work on my self esteem and boundaries and it has helped. But clearly not enough.

I don't know what I'm supposed to accept.

If I accept that relationships require compromise and attraction requires compromise, how do I work out what compromise is reasonable and appropriate? How do I work out when someone has crossed a boundary? What expectations are reasonable? What fears are real and which are projected?

Obviously, these are rhetorical questions... but also, ones I need answer to.

If I accept that relationships require compromise and attraction requires compromise, how do I work out what compromise is reasonable and appropriate?

Why do you feel you need to go into a relationship looking for compromise? The sort of things you are discussing are things most people would not accept at all. These are major things - red flag things that should have you running for the hills.

Obviously there is always compromises in life. It's more things like choice of restaurant, choice of evening entertainment, maybe holiday destinations. The sort of compromises you are talking about are huge. And if the compromise is huge then it's wrong. If the compromise makes you feel sad, makes you feel less than you are, makes you angry - these are the wrong compromises.

You need someone who loves you, respects you, who treats you with kindness, laughs with you, who has your back, who supports you when you are down and who will accept your reasonable support in return.

Compromise on any one of those things is a compromise too much.

You look like what you look. Your body is the shape it is. Anyone who meets you sees that straight away. To then say later it's because of your shape/arse whatever is just bullshit and nasty. This person was not deserving of you.

You really, really need to work on yourself. You need to truly believe in yourself.

Your mother has done a tremendous job of making you believe you are not worthy. She has done you such a disservice and it's terribly sad to read.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. You deserve so much more than the legacy your mothers cruelty has given you.

But you are talking about this. You sound willing to listen to what others are saying. You can do this. You probably could do with some proper counselling to help you work through your feelings and help you raise your self esteem.

I reckon the major issue here is that you’re not online dating, so your pool of potential guys is tiny compared to what it should be. You’re relying on chance meetings and crossing paths and then that’s narrowed down to whether they’re single, interested, it’s a small pool before you even consider attraction and compatability. While actively dating I had profiles on tinder and plenty of fish and would go on two, maybe three dates per week with different guys. Most I only saw once as it wasn’t a match, a couple I’d meet twice and it just wasn’t there, one was my partner. The chances of us just randomly coming across one another are incredibly small. Let alone within the right timeframe before either of us met anyone else.

Get on tinder and a free site like POF, shove a profile up including a tasteful casual shot from behind and you’ll have more interest and men approaching than you know what to do with and you can select the best options who treat you well and fancy you like crazy.

OP sorry if I've missed this but are you in therapy/counselling?
I think you would hugely benefit from it. Possibly even CBT.
My advice is try it for a few months and don't date at all during that time. Then see where you are with your questions.
I'm sorry your mother/parents did this to you.
Good luck

Hey OP - I had to comment as you sound like such an intelligent and nice person and quite a few things jump out as being rooted deep in your childhood. It really is possible to tackle and talk about these kind of issues in therapy.

I had therapy to deal with severe issues I had in every relationship (mainly paranoia/ jealousy/ obsessive thoughts that my partners were eyeing up other women/ about to cheat on me) - I wouldn't hve believed it possible but after a year of therapy of looking at the roots of this fear I realised two things.

1. I was able to 'choose' a man who wasn't going to do that - yes it was in my power. I was not only able to control being abandoned by being vigilant and paranoid - I could actively choose a trustworthy honest kind man. I didn't realise how deeply I had internalised the belief that all men were potentially liars/ cheats - they aren't btw.

1. I was also obsessed with a very 'shallow' view of attraction - ie. only pretty / sexy people found love - this is utter bollocks, in fact I know some extremely beautiful people who are very unhappy in their relationships and vice versa.

1. I realised I was subconsciously CHOOSING / BEING DRAWN TOWARDS shallow self obsessed and basically unreliable men - because this CONFIRMED my own beliefs about myself - that I was at heart, unloveable and difficult to love.

I promise you - some of this will apply to you if you were given a very negative self image.

You are bringing together a toxic blend of fear, mistrust and poor choice in men. You are probably drawn towards shallow feeble men because they are going to confirm in you that you are unattractive, which is what you believe.

A big bum, a big nose, being fat, being ugly, none of these actually stop people finding love - they really don't.

If your boyfriend is not showing you enough love and attention and is eyeing up other women - I am going to tell you something honest - it's not because of you ,it's because of his personality failings and because the two of you just don't have enough of a connection.

When this happens - examine how you really feel about him - is he that great? I bet not. I bet you have just chosen to keep seeing him because he triggers an anxiety in you that is familiar to you from your childhood

I could go on! however, there is so much interesting reading you could do about the effect of childhood on relationshpis - Oliver James writes very well about this and was eye opening to me. 'they fuck you up' is a good book about family dynamics.

but - find a therapist - not CBT - sorry, it's okay for some anxieties but it's not actual talking therapy and it sounds like you need to unravel the poisonous voice in your own head.