To marry now or later...

[rosetonightplease]

have two choices either a registrar's office wedding with no guests (but baby born within wedlock) or wait and have a "big" wedding with just my side of the family (they live overseas and I haven't had a big wedding before whereas he has).
My first wedding was like I could have in the next couple of months and I found that to be utterly depressing and one of the saddest days of my life BUT I'd like to be married before baby is here. I wish I could do it all by post! I know it makes not legal difference apart from re-registering the birth and I can have a party in a few years (when we can save for tickets for 7 transatlantic tickets...) And we have no local friends so an "intimate" dinner is out of the question.

Ah well in that case I would just wait until you can have the wedding you want.

Right it's starting to make sense.

You live in Country A with, which is Dp's home country. All your friends and family I've in Country B.

So small registry office do in A with his family and the kids now, or wait and have a big wedding in B with your family and all the kids in a few years.

Realistically how long would it take to save up for all those flights plus a big wedding?
Can your family afford to fly out to see you? Will they do so once baby is here?

If thry are coming out to see baby, I'd actually hold off and have a small registry office do with both families when they visit.

If they won't be visiting, I'd have the registry office do now with just the kids and his parents. In a few years do a big trip back home and throw a party then

@SleepingStandingUp yes that sums it up pretty well. My mom will come to meet the baby but that's about it and I wouldn't want a wedding with just my mom. I think some family (mom, dad, maybe a couple of cousins) and possibly one friend would come over here. Our wedding wouldnt be THAT expensive. My mom has a big enough house and garden to hold the ceremony/reception in it. In fact I think it would very sweet. My bestt friend is a florist, another very good friend is a photographer, and another one would be the officer. I think we're talking about 2-3 years so we can also take the kids on a road trip to Florida.

Have you considered getting married now @registry with all kids and his mum, and then have a reception later either in the UK or US?
or
registry office now, then vow renewal and reception in the US later?

I think any reception most likely would be in the US. Unless we have two of course (my sister did). I think we if we wee to have one in the UK is up to him. Although he first wedding was so big (he's still paying for it!) That he feels like anything is like a fraud to his guests.

How about something like this. A wedding just for the two of you in a special location, best of both worlds??
www.lakesidehotel.co.uk/celebrations/weddings/just-the-two-of-us/

I wouldn't be rushing into marriage to a man in debt from his last wedding. Especially as you're more financially well off!

Although he first wedding was so big (he's still paying for it!)

That is so many kinds of wrong I can't list them all.

@PerspicaciaTick that's really nice thank you! although I don't know what we'd tell the children.
He's the father of my unborn child and I'm certain I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I know financially it doesn't make much sense, just like it doesn't make any
real difference to have a baby in/out of wedlock.

No one is saying don't be with him, but either they were massively financially irresponsible ordering a huge wedding they couldn't afford, or it's 3 seconds since he married the last one, split, divorced and is having a baby with someone else.

Both of those options would give me pause before i tie myself financially to someone else, and therefore put a financially stable future for my child at risk

@sleeping I think it was the latter for the most part. I've seen some documents from their mediation and all I know is that of the almost £8k they owed to his ex FIL they split that in half and he's still paying him. I don't know much as I haven't asked but the way he talks about it was a massive event.

Ok personal debt is different to a loan that's accruing interest somewhere, and probably means that payments are quite low too. just saying eyes wide open Good luck with the baby

Yes, I think he pays him around £50 a month or thereabouts. None of my business (in a way) but never understood why extended it for so many years instead of getting done with.

I think any reception most likely would be in the US. Unless we have two of course (my sister did). I think we if we wee to have one in the UK is up to him. Although he first wedding was so big (he's still paying for it!) That he feels like anything is like a fraud to his guests.

I'm not really clear what he thinks is fraud.

Have a legal cermony here now, and a blessing in your Mum's garden in a couple of years when the baby is weaned and walking. Sounds lovely.

Sorry OP; but I’m starting to see a few red flags fluttering here.
Your DP is only recently divorced from someone. He met you; wealthy ; main breadwinner and you’re already pregnant.
I would definitely lay off legally binding yourself to this man till your baby is born.

A ‘big’ wedding with your own baby/toddler in tow isn’t going to make you any more married than a small wedding so as to have your child in wedlock (does anyone worry about children being born illegitimate?)

A healthy marriage isn’t about the wedding, the day, the reception or the dress.
Ask yourself what matters most? Being Mrs wife, or a grand ‘do’ ?
Don’t put the cart before the horse, marry your future husband so you and he have a life partnership and can take on the world, not because you want to wear a big dress and be centre of attention for a day.

Ps, a ‘big’ wedding will be almost impossible to save up for once your baby is here, don’t be surprised to find your both still saving for the big day when your baby is starting secondary school.

Tbh married not married I don't feel the partnership changes in that way. I've been married before and I don't think the level of commitment is any different. To me partly is to make our loved ones participants of our "love and commitment" . I will of course feel a lot happier because I can freely call him "husband" rather than having to say "partner" to refer to him when I really dislike that word. It's all semantics I know. I wanted to do things in the right order but we're not getting any younger and because the actual wedding is a logistical nightmare we never really got to do it but instead went on our TTC journey, which in the end did take some time. Seeing my exH as my NOK at the hospital and then having to be firm with the staff that I had no other family and them reluctantly changing it was an eye opener that I needed to fix this. I'm not taking his last name and baby will have both. As old fashioned as it sounds it's more about the baby within wedlock than anything else. But then the older children would have to be involved and that makes it a bigger deal than signing a paper that puts my mind at rest.

Normally I would say just get down the registry office with all the children, do a big party later.

BUT

£50 a month to his exfil on a £4k debt for his first wedding???

You realise you become financially tied to a man when you marry him right? Half of all you have becomes his and it sounds like he really really needs your "main bread winner" income. Why isn't he earning and paying his debts before remarrying and having more children?

Usually I am all for marrying before children arrive for the legal protection it affords but this sounds like a frying pan to fire situation OP. You say you got ripped off financially in your first marriage why are you lining up to repeat the mistake?

Any sane person would be paying debts to exlaws asap to cut ties and obligations, this sounds like he has no intention of paying his debt ever and there are SIX children already, did I read that right? How is he paying for them and how much is he paying? £4k is really not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things and would generally cost more than £50 a month in interest so why on earth aren't you bothered about him resolving this? How can you marry someone without having hard conversations about money and making a solid plan to start with a clean slate?

£4000/50 = 80 payments

80/12 = 6 years and 7 months payments

and that is without any interest and you have gleaned this from some papers but have never had the conversation?!?

Everything he is doing (or not doing) to take care of his existing responsibilities is the best current predictor you have of how your marriage to him will turn out. For that reason you ought to refuse to marry him until he takes care of his life properly, don't do his work for him. He sounds like an extreme cocklodger. If he loves you and the children is he working extra everywhere he can to pay debts and provide?

How long have you been in this relationship?

What does he contribute?
Why don't you have any friends here, you sound very isolated?
What relationship do the older children have with their father?
What is your marital financial plan for managing all the children?

Usually the protection of wedlock is to you and the child, that is a financial protection if he is contributing equally to you or more financially. If he isn't doing that now then you are the one who will lose out and so will your child. How will this marriage benefit you in any practical way, does he have a huge pension you will miss out on for example?

My friend recently married for the second time, her husband took on a second job to make sure they had paid for the wedding before it took place and he also managed to save enough for an unexpected honeymoon. It has taken a few years for her to be sure this was the right move. The children from first marriages were a huge part of the planning process, the marriage and the wedding. This is how she knew the marriage was a good one and the family would work.

Love is all well and good, cold hard facts butter the bread.

You realise you become financially tied to a man when you marry him right?

-- Yes, I'm pretty aware of this. I wish "separate assets" or prenups in this country were legal but sadly that isn't the case.

You say you got ripped off financially in your first marriage why are you lining up to repeat the mistake?
--We bought a house to which I have a charge but that's about it. I'm not buying any property in this country and that's how I'm protecting my assets.

are SIX children already.
-- Five including this baby.

--How is he paying for them and how much is he paying?
I know he's paying what he's supposed to pay, I saw this in his mediation papers but can't remember the exact number.

£4k is really not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things and would generally cost more than £50 a month in interest so why on earth aren't you bothered about him resolving this?
--He genuinely cannot afford much more than that, any extra money that he gets goes directly to me.

How can you marry someone without having hard conversations about money and making a solid plan to start with a clean slate?
-- We could but with his salary that would take way too many years.

If he loves you and the children is he working extra everywhere he can to pay debts and provide?
--He is. He couldn't take a second job because of his custody arrangements but does some work on the side whenever possible. All of that extra income goes to me.

How long have you been in this relationship?
-- 2 Years.

What does he contribute?
--Half of rent and bills.

Why don't you have any friends here, you sound very isolated?
--- that is a mystery to me. I have some people I get along with who are also expats, (the only two I know). The rest see me as too snubby. Privately educated, LSE graduate with a foreign accent where the vast majority barely finished middle school. It shouldn't make a difference but IME life/world experience sometimes makes it impossible to have some common ground. I had no issue in London though.

What relationship do the older children have with their father?
--Very good they spend the half time here.

What is your marital financial plan for managing all the children?
--Not much will change. I got promoted so that will cover the extra. Eventually he plans to go independent and be his own boss but I know that takes time. In the meantime he's doing as much as he can on the side.

how will this marriage benefit you in any practical way, does he have a huge pension you will miss out on for example?
--In no way whatsoever.

I don't plan to validate my marriage in the US that will protect my assets until we move over there (once the children are off to uni). That at least will buy some time in that way.

In the meantime if we were to divorce worst case scenario I get half his previous debt. From his mediation documents I know he was a reasonable man (unlike my exH) so I think he'd agree his debt is his and I shouldn't pay for it.

if we were to divorce worst case scenario I get half his previous debt. From his mediation documents I know he was a reasonable man (unlike my exH) so I think he'd agree his debt is his and I shouldn't pay for it.

That's a heck of a gamble considering he hasn't yet paid his debt for his previous wedding.

I don't know anything about US law or "validating marriage" but my understanding is that divorce law applies for the country where the divorce is sought not necessarily where the wedding was. Wouldn't that mean under UK law he would be entitled to half yours whatever the location of the assets? Have you sought legal advice? He could control where you live via your child so you can't return to the US if you wanted to.

You say there is no practical gain, what would be the harm in waiting until he has cleared his debt?

With my previous divorce I never validated it and the notary said my exH had no claim on my property. Same would apply this time. I guess of things really go south (which I don't expect them to) there is no way he can afford a good lawyer to stop me from taking the baby away as crude as that sounds.

Clearing his debt at this pace would take four years if not more. I've always been of the idea that once living a very "married" life getting married makes not much sense and why I'd want to do it ASAP. Having very grown children at my wedding is not something I'd cherish.

I am not sure I understand "validate" but I would urge you to seek advice form a qualified family law solicitor first to be sure.

The wedding is just a party, just a day. The marriage is what matters.

"Validating" is legalising the marriage abroad. My lawyers over there said never to do so as I would appear as single and he wouldn't have a claim on my property. When I got divorced here, family lawyers were a bit clueless of American law and didn't include it so it all worked well in that way. It's also easier to defend because I acquired it all before we met (even of he was to fight for it). Again, he would never afford this type of lawyers so I'm not really concerned about that. The advice from my divorce lawyer was: if you want to get married again just don't buy any property in the UK. Which is what I plan to do for the time being.

This is @Niteandfog

No one should give a shit about her wedding, tbh.