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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Affair just started, is it ever OK?

61 replies

Allinadayswork3 · 22/05/2019 21:09

Hello everyone,

Hmmm, I am the wife struggling with infidelity. It is me that is resorting to doing anything I can to cope with my marriage / other stressors and not break up our family of 3 little ones, I know that sounds completely counter intuitive.

DH was really into me when we met, as you would expect. But we moved quickly having spent hours discussing how we would like life to be when we got married. Since babies and in between there is no motivation on his part to be intimate. And when I initiate I am often rejected. Not great for self-esteem. I love intimacy and he seemed fairly tactile when we met, enough so. He doesn't like it if he has to change anything or give up the things he might have done before marriage, as so I no longer make the suggestions which means I resent every minute he sits in front of the TV not helping with the house or children. He is the main bread winner and I though that was is as he pushed hard for me to go back to work becuase his wage doesn't quite keep us afloat. Now I work 4 days and he is worse becuase he has to look after the children for 2 days and work a high level job for 5. Some restbite in that he works from home many days and have time off to run a club which is allowed in his work contract.

DH is very grumpy and rather than discuss any issues that crop up he basically ignores me, no matter which tac I take. Even if I just let everything go and am considerate, polite, affectionate with no sexual tone, he would take that and perhaps return a foot massage if I ask. But nothing is coming from him. He had been under immense pressure but is succeding at work, he also has not enjoyed early years of children and I resent him stonewalling me so much and making me fee like I am the problem that I have become angry and resentful with him. He was drinking too much and has it underconntrol with the odd wobble. He also is overweight and suffers from gout, but anything I do to try and ask him about or support a healthier life is snubbed. So meal times have gone, bed time, intimacy, doing date night which I had set up or they don't happen, all of that has gone and on top of that me working and getting us out of a tight money spot had taken it's toll. Non of these things excuse him getting angry and being awful to the kids, and rude to me. I really love him and am very attracted to him but am no longer entertaining him. He started getting angry that I am not about anymore and I explained that I didn't think he wanted me to be about anymore....I don't like just sitting on the sofa becuase it always leads to us falling asleep and him staying there. I explained I needed a little compliment here and there, some positivity and intimacy regulalry if I was to cope with the way we have set up our lives at the moment, and to stay together happily. But he still just hits a point after maybe a day of trying that he has to retreat into the man cave. Flowers, they were regular but stopped. He doesn't return calls, but can be incredibly romantic, and that hurts now he isn't. I looked it all up and feel like it is emotional abuse, and my response has been abusive when I have got the the point of feeling he is giving nothing. I hint at things to help himself kickstart a new way of living, take some space if you need it, go away and stay with a friend, live with your folks, rent a carvan, whatever, go on a lads weekend. Whatever! I even try saying nothing. It is so hard, then one day someone in a nightclub (not my usual habitat) started dancing with me. We danced ceroc, and after a few hours of non stop dancing we took water, and saw that we actually found each other attractive, so danced some more. Then it was late and we didn't want to say goodbye after so few words and such an amazing connection. We were both attached and in the end he lived abroad so we decided to just walk about hand in had and say goodbye. That made me think. But then I boxed it up and talked with hubs about taking up dancing or something and he tried but then dropped out. Then another club and I actively engaged sharking brain, for my sister who was single, and it was me that attracted a couple of seemingly decent chaps. One wanted to be in touch as we had had a great natter. So we just added each other on FB. We met up the next day, I was not interested in an affair and had said that, and we just thought it would be nice to finish our conversation less drunk. DH saw that addition on FB and basically looked up the guy and told me that if I went anywhere near him he would call the police saying I was an unfit mother! Brilliant. Then I realised his strategy to keep his life in control is to undermine, he decides to pick a fight as soon as he wants a drink, or to do his own thing, which is a few times a week. Just bowled me over to have identified the behavioural pattern. We spoke and he feels bad about it and feels worse if I raise it, but I asked how else can we get around and along with it if we don't understand it and what we might be able to do to support each other in tricky times? So, it is continously in this loop and having said I am too tired of it to keep bridging all the gaps and firefight all the time I explains I don't know what I can do now...how do I feature in all of this, I can be kept in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation forever. He also does 'take my offer on this or I will retract more than the offer' bargaining with me which is humiliating. So I have made myself independent, and no longer consult him on things except some kids things. We function and I am polite to him in front of the children, sometimes we laugh and smile and have really nice days to and the kids obviously love that, but I'm sad about the undue level of tension they will be absorbing, it isn't what I want.

The most recent thing has been my idea to seek an affair online. To regian some intimacy whilst I work out what to do, also to give me some much needed attention. I have met someone also married with 2. He has explained fully his situation which is similar, controlling partner witholding affection and being unkind. And interstingly offered me some understanding of my husband becuase we both think that after some time partners might come around and our support for each other might give us the zest to turn things around. It is working in that I now feel better and feel generally more loving and tolerant (ps we are starting to fall for one another but have not been particularly physical yet, a kiss at the end of the short times we spend in a pub, we are being very cautious in case it isn't what we actually want to do, testing the waters so to speak).

I want to hear from any people who aren't going to just try and shoot me down for fun / personal gain here becuase I'm just interested in some perspective and hearing of some experiences that might offer useful tips on how to navigate, work through how to go forwards becuase I am enjoying feeling cared about again, but not the dishonesty. I think if DH started to enjoy marriage and kids and intimacy without the need to defend his freedom so much we could have it all. I don't like feeling like I am not important to 2 men when it is tricky for the affair to find a time to get together. Basically I have no problem with my situation but I am unsure of how that might change going forwards. Obviously I could hurt 2 men and be alone, I could just get on with leaving my husband. But I don't want to leave what we have if he simply is just having a tricky time temporarily! HE won't talk to me about any of it. He literally walks out.

OP posts:
GabsAlot · 23/05/2019 10:25

Stop seeing other men and just end your marriage first-If he wont talk to you about it its obviously over but dont try and justify having affairs

Pinkmonkeybird · 23/05/2019 11:27

No, it's never ok to start an affair. End your marriage before you start something new. Don't be ridiculous.

AnastasiaBeverleyHills · 23/05/2019 16:43

As usual the venom from the Morality Party is coming thick and fast.

Your situation sounds horrible and frustrating. I was in a very similar situation. I thought about having an affair so I do understand where you are coming from. It turned out my ex-H was having an affair. I stayed for a while, we went for counselling and I, again, considered an affair as I felt low and lonely and confused. I didn't go down that route but it would have been very easy to and I see all your reasons for it.

In the end I left. We were terribly unhappy. He wanted me to leave. He never stopped seeing her even during counselling. Splitting from someone and making that decision takes a lot of strength. Right now you are vulnerable, sad and confused and he seems like a welcome distraction. In the end though it may lead to more pain.

Seek out a personal therapist and couples counselling if your husband will attend. If he doesn't then go for the personal counselling yourself. Look after yourself and your kids. You absolutely can make it on your own. I did and years later I'm very happy.

For what it's worth my children are also very happy. I have a very amicable relationship with my Ex-H. We have new partners and are both happy now. I did bring my children to see a children's therapist not long after the break up. The thing is staying in a situation like that might be more damaging for them in the long run.

Put yourself and your kids first and trust your gut. You won't find what your looking for in someone else, you have the strength inside you to live the life you want.

Tixytrick · 23/05/2019 18:26

The bloke will be bullshitting too. They all do. Say anything to get in your pants and stupidly vulnerable women like you believe them.

SunshineCake · 23/05/2019 20:08

As usual the venom from the Morality Party is coming thick and fast.

Hmm. Lovely.

SpecterLitt · 23/05/2019 20:38

Here's your short answer - no.

Please have a good hard look at what you have written and tell me how on earth you can think this is at all ok to do?

You're an adult, take responsibility for your situation, either seek help by counselling if you want to save your marriage, or WALK AWAY. If your husband does not want to put effort in, counselling will not work. However, that does not give you any sort of right to play games with other people's lives and cheat.

As aforementioned, you're a grown woman, stop looking at justifications for an affair and do the right thing and walk away from your marriage if you're that unhappy. Irrespective of how your partner is, it does not justify you wanting to or actively looking to cheat on him - that is fucking horrid. How would you feel if you found out that he was actively looking to cheat on you with another?

Your children will be better off with you two separating and each taking responsibility for them.

You want to be with someone else? Leave, and go do what you want. However, do not mess around with married men, regardless of what they tell you about their partner, don't be that disgusting and vile. There are plenty of single men you can begin a relationship with.

Ultimately, I feel you will go ahead and have an affair and in your mind you have already thought of 101 justifications as to why you can participate in ruining someone else's marriage whilst also deceiving your own husband. Congratulations, you sound fucking lovely.

SpecterLitt · 23/05/2019 20:42

@Jsku Not condoning affairs is not exclusive to MN, you'll find the majority of people who aren't deceptive and cheats will tell you the same - that it is wrong. Nothing gives you the right to play games with people's lives, it's fucking selfish and disgusting.

You basically use someone until you get what you need whilst having no care that you are a liar and a cheat. If you are unhappy in your relationship, you do the adult thing and leave. You do not play games and use people for your benefit.

Have a word with yourself Hmm.

AgentJohnson · 23/05/2019 20:56

Your have every reason to end marriage but sleeping with someone else and inserting yourself into someone else’s marriage, isn’t OK but nice try.

If you were being honest with yourself you’d acknowledge that your affair is to keep you occupied while your H continues to check out of your relationship.

This is who he now and you should base your decision on that, rather than waiting for the person he once.

TooManyPuppies · 23/05/2019 21:18

Not condoning affairs is not exclusive to MN, you'll find the majority of people who aren't deceptive and cheats will tell you the same - that it is wrong

Agree. It's not rocket science but it is a principal that is lost on some people.
I have found that when it's a man who's having and affair or woman coming in here about her husbands affair he is ripped to shreds. But when it's a woman contemplating it there is always a few who support the poor hard done by woman who deserves intimacy etc and so they think it's ok then.... This is just something I've noticed on a regular basis and is just a select few who bat for the op in that situation and usually have low morals themselves, if you read the post or past ones, which they don't realise or acknowledge.

SpecterLitt · 23/05/2019 22:09

@TooManyPuppies Oh TooMany, I completely agree with you. The double standards often presented here are dreadful and I am always shocked and appalled.

There are far too many women here who think women should stick together no matter what. There's constant dismissal of certain things a woman can do but if a man were to do it, he'd be ripped to shreds as you've mentioned.

I just think that is ridiculous, if someone is wrong, they're wrong and what their sex is makes no difference. I wish more people gave decent advice here with honest intentions. There's also so many here who just post on threads to get an OP to cause more drama, they egg on the OP to do certain things failing to realise that actions have consequences. It's all a bit of entertainment.

Nice to meet more level-headed people, it's always a pleasure. Have a good evening :)

Jsku · 24/05/2019 01:44

@SpecterLitt

Had a word with myself - and myself wanted to clarify....
I didn’t as much as had an affair - I wanted to have a friend who I could have a bit of fun with. Something to take my mind of life....
I didnt go and seduce some poor hapless man. He came looking for exactly the same thing and we found each other. It worked for both.

As to the mantra - unhappy then leave.... Its so so easy to say, when it’s about some theoretical life of someone else. And in real world - many people live in unhappy marriages and have no strength to do it.

Point is - affairs happen for many reasons. In the situation where the relationship is broken and people are missing connection and intimacy - it’s quite understandable.

TooManyPuppies · 24/05/2019 03:31

Yes they happen. Doesn't make it right just because it's padded with excuses and "reasons" though. It is what it is.

julensaor · 24/05/2019 04:06
Biscuit
SpecterLitt · 24/05/2019 10:39

@Jsku No, just stop. Just because they happen does not make them understandable or right. To go ahead with an affair is NEVER right, no matter what your circumstances or the other person's. Stop that nonsense narrative as oh woe is me I had to, no you made a conscious decision to be a cheat - own it and accept it was wrong.

I can bet if you found out that any of your partners current or past cheated on you you would find it wrong.

In regards to your statement about how easy it is to advise someone to leave their partner, no it isn't. Good advice is always given with careful thought, consideration and understanding. If you're brave enough to go around lying and cheat, then be adult enough to get your affairs in order and leave the relationship that makes you unhappy. The amount of effort put in to an affair you can put towards making your escape plan and ensuring you can leave.

You went out looking for someone to have an affair with, that's wrong, no matter how you try and paint it. It's wrong for any one to do so no matter the situation. To purposely be deceitful and play with people it's fucking vile. Be an adult, take responsibility for your life and actions and leave whatever relationship it is that you do not want to be in before you go out looking to start something with another.

If you have the "strength" to put time and effort in to committing an affair, you have the "strength" to leave your relationship. Honestly, how healthy is it to be living two different lives? Surely it's better to end the chapter that is making you unhappy, get yourself sorted and then start again.

I would love to see your reaction to any partner of yours saying they just wanted some fun with a random woman to take their mind off of their life.

Anyway, I have no further interest in engaging with you, you go ahead and keep justifying your affair to yourself, because you'll only ever convince other cheats that it's ok, no one else.

SpecterLitt · 24/05/2019 10:40

And of course, the OP disappears. If you start such threads have the courage to stick around. Surely you write here for advice, so why not engage further? Hmm

Huskylover1 · 24/05/2019 14:59

I can see why you'd have an affair in these circs.

HOWEVER. This married man is only ever going to shag you and then gradually withdraw, or ghost you, once he's had his fun. This is what men do who are on these married dating sites. They shag a lot of women. This will knock your self esteem and you'll feel even worse than you do now. He's not looking for an emotional connection. He's looking for a free fuck. And whatever he tells you, he will still be shagging his wife.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 24/05/2019 16:47

SpecterLitt, Why should OP post back here? I see plenty of judgement and lecturing in many of the posts but very few posters (and they were the early ones), who have looked at the actual issues.

Why should OP stick around to engage with any of us for our entertainment?

Affairs are wrong, nobody's saying any different but the same old posters who have this subject as a 'hobby horse', for whatever reason, have made it personal. There's obviously more going on in the background and that's what some posters have tried to help the OP with; the hectoring is what's driven her off. Nobody should have to put up with that but if it's an 'affair' topic then it seems to be considered fair game - and it isn't.

AnastasiaBeverleyHills · 24/05/2019 18:23

@SpecterLitt

My ex-H had an affair. Unfortunately life is not black and white. I can still understand why the OP is thinking the way she is, like I said above I almost went down that route myself. Break ups are so difficult. It's like being a whirlwind of confusion, telling yourself "If I only do "A,B or C" then everything will be ok". I think back now to that time and can't believe I manged to get dresses in the morning. If you managed to leave a situation like that without all that confusion and turmoil I envy you. Well done on being so decisive, I wasn't. It took me a long time to see what was best for me and my children. I thought staying together was best and that once my children were ok it didn't matter what else happened. It has given me a different perspective on affairs and break ups and life in general. I understand your perspective, that affairs are wrong, and in a world where everything lands on one side or another, it is wrong. I'm sorry that you were hurt, but sometimes life is not as simple as right or wrong.

Jsku · 24/05/2019 18:50

@SpecterLitt

I understand that your views are common. However, I believe that very few things in life are absolute.
Like, say, it’s not always wrong to kill. Why is it that an affair as a concept is treated so differently?

I made a choice that was right for me and my children.
And as to my partners having affairs - I fantasised for years that my H has an affair and leaves. Hoped for it. I don’t know if he does or does not see someone else, and don’t really care.
We have lived separate lives for a long time.
And now the time to change is here and I am very happy.

SpecterLitt · 24/05/2019 20:09

@AnastasiaBeverleyHills (I hope you're not the real ABH lol), but back to the point, not for even one second do I think that leaving an abusive, or a relationship where you are not loved, no intimacy, where there's children but you're not yet financially independent, is easy. God, no. Years of abuse, fear of the unknown can cripple you emotionally I wholeheartedly understand that, but that does not give you, or me the right to deceive another. I can understand the need for the attention, but my point remains that the most sensible thing and the right thing is to get your affairs in order, begin to plan for an escape and take that action before you begin a new relationship. It is far healthier for you mentally to tackle the first issue then muddle yourself further and add another relationship in to the mix.

The time you spend on affair can be spent on YOU, on reaching out to friends, family, agencies, resources so that you can begin to do what is best for you to leave the horrible position you are currently in.

Life is not black and white, I know that, and my stance on affairs does not come from personal experience. Fortunately, I've never experienced someone cheating on me, but I have seen it around me for sure.

I'm glad that you were able to get yourself out and you were able to do what is right for you in the long run. Relationships are never straightforward, and that does not always mean a romantic one, families can be just as poisonous.

SpecterLitt · 24/05/2019 20:12

@Jsku Oh goodness, you cannot compare murder to affairs now, please just stop.

You had an affair, you did what you felt was right for you, I'm glad you were able to get out of the situation and are happier now.

Nonetheless, I won't agree with you that you cheating was right, and as much as you may have wished your husband would cheat on you, I'm sure if you found out a current partner or one in the future cheated on you you would hate it.

But, you're of course entitled to your outlook and as said before, I'm glad you're in a better place. The OP however is looking for an affair with another married man so this situation is all shades of fucked up.

Jsku · 24/05/2019 21:24

@SpecterLitt

It’s funny. How a clear point that in life nothing is absolute gets totally overlooked when it’s a fear that one’s partner can leave them.
Understandable, but still.

Of course murder and affair aren’t the same in essence. But as concepts the judgement on their morality isn’t absolute in either cases.

There are plenty of miserable, broken, distant or abusive marriages where spouses are deeply unhappy. And if they can’t leave (for whatever reason, and only they can decide on that, not court of public opinion) - a spouse looking to have their emotional, companionship, or physical needs outside of their marriage is understandable....

Just read the the threads here on MN where one spouse decides to stop having sex with the other. And who are we to tell that poor other spouse who doesn’t want to break their children’s family but still wants to have a physical connection in their lives - who are we to say they can’t and it’s wrong.
Live their life before you judge. That’s how I see life

SpecterLitt · 24/05/2019 21:32

@Jsku Oh god, in such cases where your partner is not having sex with you no more, and you're not in a romantic relationship yet still together for the children, just be open and agree to have an open relationship. The issue is the dishonesty, if the other person knows that you are seeking to have a relationship with another and has no objection do as you will, that's between you two and you both have been honest. It's the deceit and the playing with people's lives that is wrong. Those poor spouses can be adults and take responsibility for their lives. There's always options before you decide to be deceitful.

Any way, I'm not interested in discussing this further with you, you had an affair and you're all for it so good for you, I'm out.

boobirdblue · 25/05/2019 08:14

You really would be better off apart, makes steps to leave.

Smilingthroughtears · 25/05/2019 12:22

No never. My family is broken because of an affair

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