At my wits’ end. Please help.

[Pinkarsedfly]

I’ll try to keep it brief and outline the facts.

My dad is 85 and pretty much blind. Will not register as such, and we’re ‘not allowed’ to mention it. I do, of course, and am met with flat denial, glib jokes, general glossing over.
He also has a heart condition and COPD, plus he has prostate issues.

My mother is 80. She has lupus, plus osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, a crumbled spine and various nerve issues which cause her to randomly fall over. She also has cataracts, which she refuses to have treated. She uses a trolley to get around, but refuses to use any of the wheelchairs/mobility scooters etc that she has bought under duress, and even gets my poor dad to hide them if they have visitors.

They refuse all outside help. They have a gardener and cleaners, whom they moan about, but other than that, nothing.

My sisters and I have organised carers in the past - mum has sacked them.

This last week we tried to appoint someone to go in for one hour a day to make them their evening meal. Mum is now refusing to use them - the kitchen is ‘her domain’ apparently.

But they let my sisters and I run ourselves into the ground, shopping, cooking, ferrying them to appointments, etc.

The real problem is, I have a totally different attitude than one of my sisters. I’ve got to the ‘hands off and step back’ stage, as I think we’re enabling them to stay in an unsafe situation.

My sister falls for the manipulation every time, though, and then ropes me in. I can’t bring myself to say ‘no’ - what if a bad accident happened on the occasion I’d refused to go and help?

For context, I work as a tutor and am usually busy teaching across mealtimes. I live 40 minutes away, she lives just over an hour. My other sister lives down South and we have a brother who isn’t as involved.

What makes it worse is that my parents are seriously rich. They could afford round-the-clock care - but just refuse. They’d rather we did it all.

I’m becoming resentful, angry, sleepless and anxious.

What the hell do I do?

I’m sorry this is so long. If you’ve taken the time to read it, thank you so much.

She sounds a lot like my grandmother whom I loved deeply as a child, but as an adult realised she was actually extremely selfish and manipulative.

Eventually my mum just said no - no you can’t keep living with me, no I can’t be your sole carer etc. She moved into a warden assisted flat and my mum arranged carers. When that became untenable she went into a home despite the guilt tripping. You can do the same - it’s not easy but it is not your responsibility

Things may have moved on now. But the family meeting wouldn't be to get them to agree to do stuff, which you will never achieve because they don't want to, it's to say that there are things you can't do, and to agree between you to stick to.

Did they care for their own parents in their old age?

I think one of the main problems is to make sure you and your sister agree about what you are and aren't prepared to do. If you aren't united on this then there will always be problems.

It is very difficult when older folk fear the loss of their independence. You only mentioned needing help in terms of cooking them an evening meal and putting food away. That is not the role of a carer and, if you have used that word, maybe that is what has put them off.

So are they actually okay with managing their personal care and washing their clothes? Do they actually cook anything themselves at present?

Firstly you have my sympathy

Speaking from my own personal experience, my in-laws were exactly the same as your parents. The situation is extremely unhealthy and purely one filled with stubboness and manipulation, with your parents being of the mindset that its now your turn to return the good deed and take care of them. They feel it is their right and your duty, so how dare you challenge them.

They are so stubbon that you will find it impossible to make them see sense and the situation will affect your health whilst not being the best for them.

My in-laws were so adamant they were going to get their own way, they used the other brother to put the pressure and guilt trip my husband into doing what they wanted. My husband then had to go on antidepressants and had a breakdown, which resulted in him losing his job. Even after this despite their son being unwell, they still kept on making demands on him. When we told them he couldn't take them to the doctors at that particular time and didn't know how to fix their roof, the father got agressive and shouted at us saying, you will do it and I'm going to make sure you got no time for each other because you will be to busy doing for us. Don't allow your sisters to put pressure on you, if they are happy to do it let them.

Honestly I fully understand how difficult it is but please do not let it take over your life and well-being. Be firm, say what you can and can't do, offer to put help in place for areas you can't do. If hey refuse the help, then you have nothing to feel guilty for

Can I ask how old you are OP?

Funny how it's generally daughters who are expected to take on the carers role. OP you have to step back. Your parents are being very selfish and are enjoying being able to manipulate you and your sister. This isn't about having their needs met, they can easily afford any amount of 'help', this is about keeping the focus on them and proving to themselves that they can dictate the lives of you and your sister. Your sister is a fool quite frankly if she's prepared to do a 2 hour round trip every evening to warm up some food, but some people enjoy playing the martyr. The only control you have is how you behave and respond to their selfishness. I would tell them what jobs/errands are manageable for you and say anything else will necessitate outside help, and stick to it. If they refuse help then that's completely their responsibility.

Hello all. Thanks for the replies and messages of support. It’s good to hear I’m not a complete bitch.

I’ll try to answer some questions.

Beerandpopcorn No, they didn’t. My maternal grandmother died aged 36, and my maternal grandad died suddenly in his sleep at 65. My dad’s mum lived to 92, but my aunt lived next door to her and did everything so dad didn’t have to.

To listen to the pair of them you’d think they were a combination of Mother Theresa and Dr Kildare in their younger days, though. They forget we were there at the time 🙄

Renarde75 I’m almost 45.

Friday2019 I’m sorry you went through that. Your poor husband.

Redberrytea you’re spot on in your assessment. Keeping the focus on them has been their MO for my whole life, and I guess it’s not going to change any time soon - so I’ll have to.

InadvertentlyBrilliant I don’t think we used the word ‘carer’. My mother’s objection to having someone cook for them is the kitchen is ‘her domain’ and she ‘doesn’t want some stranger going through her cupboards and pan drawers, looking at what she’s got.’

I know...she sounds bonkers...

She sounds exactly like my late mother - difficult and paranoid.

Remember that your own well being and mental health are just as important as your parents’ needs.

Paranoid! That’s exactly it.

You’ve hit the nail exactly on the head. She said yesterday that it feels like ‘four against one’ - we’re all running rings round ourselves trying to help her, but we’re against her?

Paranoid is exactly it.

You do nothing, tbh the fact you are railroading your parents is bad enough. They are fully aware of their capability's. So instead of doing things against their consent, simply tell them they can arrange their own transport and shopping from now on. If they need help they can ring SS and refer themselves.

I’ve not railroaded anyone. The homehelp was arranged by my sister. But thanks.

So what actually happened yesterday? Was there a family discussion?

Avengers what a spectacularly unhelpful post! You accuse the OP of 'railroading' but your advice is to do nothing at all? How do you think that helps anything?

Just my twopennorth, paranoia in old people can signal the start of dementia. It's like they know on some level they're losing control and it can result in this attitude. I do wish you luck.
We've had to get very firm and refuse any negotiation with my in laws.
In some ways we're lucky as FIL has had several falls which so far haven't resulted in major injury but it's been enough to scare them into taking advice and paying for help - which they can well afford.
The falls frightened everyone but turned out to be a blessing in disguise as it gave us unarguable evidence that they were not safe and measures needed to be put in place.
And our situation wasn't as bad as yours because my inlaws when younger were very devoted parents to my OH.
They now have a cleaner, who also drives them to appointments and will shop in bad weather. They go to a weekly falls clinic for advice. They have emergency button pendants to wear. They have had adaptations to their apartment and accepted advice on replacing and moving furniture. They have meals brought in. My OH is like a new man, the worry for him was terrible.

My DM ended up on antidepressants and blood pressure medication running round after my GM. She'd "worked all her life" and "saved for a rainy day", yet when the heavens opened she wouldn't bloody spend her money, but would rather people disrupted the best years of their lives chasing round. Extremely selfish and manipulative.
At the end of the day the state has the duty of care, not family. I would take a big step back and leave them to it. They want to manage without paid help, then crack on. See how far they get. Why are you prioritising their needs over your own? They're not prioritising yours. We all have choices, and the lives we live will be a reflection of the choices we make. That works on both sides.

I'm sorry, PinkarsedFly, sounds like just like my family. The sister who lives down South and the less-involved brother who are therefore out of the picture, so your parents expect you and your other sister to shoulder everything despite the fact that they are affluent enough and mentally capable enough to organise their own help? Been there.

My difficulty was all about trying to get my siblings to agree and present a united front, particularly the sister who was as near to the situation as I was. My sister is a difficult woman to deal with too and it didn't help that as a direct result of my parents' lifetime selfishness, sibling relationships have always been fractured.

You can't negotiate with your parents and it doesn't sound like you can negotiate with your sister either. I'm afraid you are just going to have to set boundaries and limits about what you are prepared to do, make that clear to your parents and siblings, and then stick to it. It won't make you popular. They will all grumble, to your face and behind your back. However, they'd still grumble even if you turned yourself inside-out trying to be a 24/7 support service for your parents, so you have nothing to lose.

You have your own family, your own life, your own health (both physical and mental) to consider too. You don't have to sacrifice those just to appease your parents.

Just my twopennorth, paranoia in old people can signal the start of dementia. It's like they know on some level they're losing control and it can result in this attitude. I do wish you luck.

Absolutely true of so many older people in normal families. If I'm guessing right and OP's family is anything like mine, however, it's not the start of dementia. It's just the way the parents have always been throughout their entire family life. I used to joke bitterly that I'd never be able to tell if my mother started developing dementia as she has been paranoid, suspicious, selfish, difficult and impossible to reason with all of her life.

Step back and leave them to it. Explain very clearly to your sister that you can't do it anymore and if she wants to that's up to her but you don't want her involving you. If something happens, it happens because of their choices not yours.

SingingLily I’m gobsmacked at how absolutely identical our situations sound.

You’re right about sibling relationships being difficult due to our upbringings. It doesn’t help that I’m the youngest by 10 years. Standing up to my older siblings has never been easy.

I’m feeling very buoyed by this thread. Thank you all so very much.

They need a housekeeper/carer and it would also be a bit of company. Would mean in future they could stay in the house longer and better for their safety? Would they be willing if they interviewed her and got someone they liked?

Agree a united front by all your siblings is needed to say you cant carry on.

Your mum should get cateracts done , my DF82 had them done easy operation and he can see without glasses its a revelation for him!

Good luck.., so tricky for you

Set out to your sister what you are prepared to do and when. She can choose to do more than you, or not. That's up to her.

It is tricky. But you are right-if they can afford care and it's hard for you to do it all, then if they choose not to use that option it's on them. Similarly if your sister wants to do everything for them that's on her.

I'm absolutely not suggesting that you disengage from it totally. I think families should be involved in the care of their elderly (unless there has been some sort of Abuse or other issues)-but there has to be some balance.

Lozzerbc they interviewed her on Friday, sacked her on Thursday - before she started.

Honestly, it’s mind-boggling.

Sadly, Pinkarsedfly, we are not on our own. I post on the Stately Homes thread from time to time and our numbers are legion.

My parents are in their eighties and, like yours, have multiple health problems. For years, I turned myself inside-out trying to be a good daughter. I ran around after them, provided a 24/7 taxi and concierge service, sorted out their medical appointments and health care, cooked them two meals per week (as well as baking endless bread, cakes and scones for them). I offered to find them a reliable cleaner, gardener, odd job person, to make their lives easier. All to no avail. Nothing I did suited. None of it. However, it started to affect me - the stress of trying endlessly to reason with unreasonable people, the headaches, the pointless circular conversations trying to dislodge my mother's suspicions about my motives, the neighbours' motives, the GP's motives, the motives of the man in the moon... It was exhausting.

Then came the Battle of the Chip Pan. My mother has uncontrollable shaking in her hands. Dad has mobility problems and staggers without warning. Despite this, they insisted on using an open chip pan, overfilled with beef dripping. My DSis (the one who lives furthest away but the only one I have a relationship with) was horrified. I was having kittens. We agreed, the two of us, that the chip pan had to go. Somehow.

So we each broached the subject with M and D. M went into nuclear mode (she can go from 0-60 in seconds anyway) so I offered to take custody of the chip pan and to cook the chips for them as often as they wanted. In reality, this would have meant going to their house five nights out of seven (I know, I know, chips drenched in beef dripping and a mountain of salt. However, they are in their 80s so I figured the Ship of Healthy Eating had long since sailed). Not good enough. In the end, DSis and I just backed them into a corner.

M has never forgiven me. I've probably been disinherited for being a Chip Pan Denier (not joking, you know!). Come the nuclear winter, just three things will survive: cockroaches, styrofoam and my mother. And she'll still be whinging about the chip pan.

So please stop trying to reason with the impossibly unreasonable. Please decide what you are prepared to do ("I'll help with X and Y on Thursday evenings and Saturday afternoons" or whatever) and stick to it. Put your own family and your own mental health first. Please.

Good luck!