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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Keeping husband’s last name/snark

58 replies

Ihavehadenoughalready · 24/04/2019 04:42

STBX just announced that he is a “firm believer” that for women “giving up on the marriage” (meaning me, evidently), that they should “have to give up the husband’s name”.

I have already told him at least twice that I am not changing my name back due to several reasons, all of which I already discussed with him, and said furthermore, that he had no say in the matter and it’s none of his business what a woman wants to do with her last name.

Then he said once we are divorced, that he will no longer refer to me as a member of the (last name)s, and so then I said, well, if you’re gonna be pissy about it, I’ll insult you as well, so I said “Good luck paying for the house after we’re divorced”. (I make 3X what he does so it’ll be interesting to see how he thinks he can afford the house. I’ve opted for moving to an apartment big enough for me and our three kids).

So he said “what’s that supposed to mean?”

And then I hear my son say as I’m walking away “it means you don’t make enough money, Dad.”

Oh god I can’t wait for this divorce to be over!!

OP posts:
IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 24/04/2019 12:48

I don't get this thing of thinking a maiden name is still a man's name. Just because you get something from your dad, it doesn't mean it's not really yours. Half of my DNA comes from my dad so I cannot see the problem in having his name too. Some kids get their mum's last name or a mixture of both.
Anyway, regardless of whether you are born owning your name or get it via marriage, it's yours to do as you please with.

PicsInRed · 24/04/2019 13:05

I don't see the feminism in going back to what is most likely op'sfather'sname.

It's not her father's name anymore than her brother's name is only his fathers name. It's her name, the name she grew up, lived with and achieved under, as much as it would be if she were born a boy. If John is allowed to own his family name, why not his sister Joan? Is she not really of her own family?

Obviously, kids should get their mother's name. After all, maternity is surer and often more enduring Hmm than paternity. But they don't. That's just not how our patriarchal culture operates and whatever name a girl-child is given is her own name. If she wishes to give it up on marriage, that's her choice, but it doesn't make her birth name any less hers.

prawnsword · 24/04/2019 13:11

An ex of mine took his ex wife’s last name, as he hated his abusive father & didn’t want to pass on his name. Perhaps this discussion needs its own thread ! What’s in a name...

PicsInRed · 24/04/2019 13:13

The nominal is political. Wink

Whichwayfoward · 24/04/2019 13:50

Well done, op. I enjoyed reading that.

We all have our limits and if that's the worst your son has to deal with, he isn't doing too bad. You didn't say anything that wasn't true.

TheNavigator · 24/04/2019 13:59

We all have our limits and if that's the worst your son has to deal with, he isn't doing too bad

Really? A child is going through the divorce of his parents and you can brush aside his feelings so easily? For most children, the divorce of their parents is, quite literally, the worst thing they will ever deal with. The effects ripple out for years and influence all future relationships, so should not be lightly dismissed for the sake of a bit of self gratifying point scoring.

Whichwayfoward · 24/04/2019 14:12

Oh please, get off my case. Good enough parenting is what it's all about, not doing everything right all the time. We all do our best but I'm yet to meet anyone that didn't mess up once or twice when under stress of a divorce.

I'm sure the op cares and loves and looks after her child. Truth is dad earns a lot less. He'll likely see that himself when he's visiting his dad who is struggling financially now mum is no longer on board

TheNavigator · 24/04/2019 14:20

Oh please, get off my case. Good enough parenting is what it's all about, not doing everything right all the time. We all do our best but I'm yet to meet anyone that didn't mess up once or twice when under stress of a divorce.

Agreed. I was 'on your case' because of the cheerleading response. Of course we all make mistakes, but they are mistakes, not victories to be celebrated at the expense of your child.

Happyspud · 24/04/2019 14:25

The main loser in that exchange was your DS. So I wouldn’t be so proud of myself for it.

EL8888 · 24/04/2019 14:25

He doesn't "own" the surname. You didn't give your reasons for not changing your name and it's none of his business. I'm assuming to keep the same name as your children and / or professional reasons. Is that really so bad?

AryaStarkWolf · 24/04/2019 15:40

Poor kids

Whichwayfoward · 24/04/2019 16:31

Of course we all make mistakes, but they are mistakes, not victories to be celebrated at the expense of your child.

I admire you for never having let yourself down. I have and am sure will again.

Op, I understand why you lashed out. We can't always say/do the right thing. I'd say your separation has been difficult on all the family. Just do your best :)

RomanyQueen1 · 24/04/2019 16:34

You are getting divorced, stop the childish games and think about how this is affecting your kids.
One of them telling their dad he doesn't earn enough, what a bloody cheek.
So you two argue and your children can be as rude as they like.
Great parenting.

Whichwayfoward · 24/04/2019 16:36

The child made one comment. Funny how people can sum up another's parenting on the basis of one incident. Ridiculous.

ravenmum · 24/04/2019 16:51

The boy made a comment that showed he was listening closely to the whole nasty argument.

Of course it's normal to say things you regret during a divorce. OP presumably also regrets this whole situation and doesn't want to be patted on the back for saying that in front of her son.

There really is no need for you to be defending your choices, OP, though - no reason for him to even know what name you are going to take. Let him find it out afterwards and just don't discuss it, aka "grey rock". Block him on texts so you can have a bath in peace and go as low-contact as possible.

Happyspud · 24/04/2019 16:56

The issue was not the OP having a bad moment. As we all do. It was the lack of insight that it was actually a bad moment, and not good for her child, that is the problem. She sees it as a triumph and posted about the exchange as such.

Whichwayfoward · 24/04/2019 18:03

Maybe that insight will come once the moment isn't raw. I imagine it will, like with most things. In the heat of the moment, we react, feel a sense of triumph. How we think about it after is an entirely different matter.

I am a bit bemused at the ex's comment "what do you mean by that". Did he honestly think op would continue to pay for the house while he lived in it?

Ihavehadenoughalready · 24/04/2019 18:06

Thanks for appropriately chiding me for my petty response. I agree it was petty.

The reasons I would keep the name are twofold. One, I would like my children and I to have the same last name. Two, an extended family member has my old name now and I just would feel weird having the same exact name. OK, threefold....after 19 years of having this name, it feels like my name and so I see no obligation to revert to the old name. It has zero to do with hurting him.

Why am I not keeping the house? Because I don’t like the house. I haven’t liked the house since when I thought we needed a bigger house due to us going from a family of four to a family of five, H flat-out refused to even consider it. Instead, we “compromised” by him building a bedroom in the basement. I said if we weren’t gonna move, then could we please hire someone to do the improvements. He has a history of swearing, throwing things, and being generally disagreeable and scary when doing projects. I also wanted it to look professionally done, all done to code, all legal permits from the city drawn, etc. He insisted, such that he decided, that he could do it on the cheap, so he did, and he did not pull permits. Earlier, same deal with the rec room where he did it on the cheap and did not pull permits. This was against my advice and my OK, despite me being co-owner. Fence for yard, same deal, don’t even consult me on what type of fence, just went with cheapest fence, cheapest quote...fence and gate looks horrible. He did get a permit for the fence. Anyway, I don’t want this house. He’s the one emotionally attached to it and has agreed to keep it. I want a fresh start with my own place, my own things. I feel he’s dictated enough decisions.

Yes I make more money than him. I got a job out of college that utilizes my skills and I’m happy to work. I’m not happy to have to work full time while he willfully only works part time. Early in our marriage, he finished a college degree but has failed to get a job that would utilize those skills and remains in the same kind of somewhat low-paying job he’s had since we married. When the kids were little, he was working FT and I was therefore able to cut back to half time while they were little. However, he then experienced a mental health crisis that pretty much forced me to pick up hours to accommodate him getting a part time job. At the time, I agreed to work full time so he could have less stress and recover from his issues. However, that part time thing became permanent and my resentment grew. My resentment boiled over when I discovered, having also then taken over bill-paying and financial planning so he would not have so much “stress” that made him grumpy, irritable, and angry at us and the kids—-discovered that he had developed a severe gambling problem. It became clear why we could never pay off our credit card bills, why it felt like we never had enough money, why I was needed to work full time. I admit I let him take care of all the bills when the kids were little. It was a shock when I did take over and discovered this nonsense. Credit card cash advances, casino ATM withdrawals, etc, etc. Oh was I pissed! But I considered it at the time to all be included in his mental health problems, so I agreed to working full time while he got his mind in order. Well, his mind is still not completely in order, I’m very done with feeling constantly on edge about money and has he gone gambling again, and why can’t he get a better job and why is this all on my shoulders while he does what he wants when he wants in his off time......well, and there are other issues I haven’t even discussed here that contribute to my decision to sever ties with H except for shared child-raising.

I know I will be the one paying him child support. I know I will need to work full time until I can retire (in about 12 years!) I know I will have to give him half the house, half my pension, half my retirement account, and he’ll have to do the same, but in the end I will be so relieved not to have to worry and wonder every single day about how his actions affect our finances. The relief from that constant worry will be so worth it. I did manage to save enough in my retirement fund for the both of us. I felt I had to almost hide away as much of my paycheck as possible so he couldn’t gamble it away, so I did end up saving a LOT of money. I’m glad about that.

So, yes, I made a mistake in saying that in front of our son. H made a mistake in bringing up divorce stuff in front of our son. We were both wrong.

He is, finally, btw, going to be working full time beginning this summer, and this is at his current place of employment, and due to someone quitting and he being able to pick up their duties. He will still only be making about half of what I do, but that’s his choice not to try for employment that would use his college degree in a better-compensated job.

So, I acknowledge huge resentment over the years and I need to work on not letting it affect the kids during the divorce. They do know, however, about the gambling because he told them. They kept wondering why he had meetings every Friday so he finally told them he was attending Gamblers Anonymous. Once we live apart, I think we can both be reasonable for the kids.

I am looking forward to it.

OP posts:
sparklefarts · 24/04/2019 18:06

Ouch, how old is your DS?
Please think of yours kids when behaving like this in front of them

PrincessDanae · 24/04/2019 18:16

He sounds like an arse, OP! If he is going to be working full time, and you share custody of the DC, why would you be paying him maintenance?

Ihavehadenoughalready · 24/04/2019 19:49

PrincessDanae,

Not maintenance but child support yes. It’s a formula based on incomes and custody. I will have to pay him.

He is also seeking spousal maintenance but my atty will be be arguing against that, and apparently is rarely awarded in my neck of the woods when both spouses have worked and are capable of working.

OP posts:
category12 · 24/04/2019 23:19

Picsinred, But that's the very point is that it's patriarchal - it's based on women taking their husband's names and passing that on to the children. Reverting back to a family name passed down the male line or taking on your husband's name - both traditions are kinda meh and thoroughly steeped in patriarchy. It's not a question of the girls of the family not 'owning' or having rights to the name, I'm really not sure where you're getting that from in my post. Hmm

FuriousVexation · 24/04/2019 23:43

OP, sounds like you're in the US? So "rules" around maintenance etc will not be the same as over here.

FWIW I'm not going to castigate you for snapping back at him when he's been stupidly petty and entitled about you using "his" name. You recognise that it wasn't good to have that argument in front of DC (no matter that it felt satisfying at the time.) I am sure you will make every attempt to not do that again.

Regarding names - I kept my XH surname when I left him. It meant I still had the same surname as my son, which was very important to DS, and made things much easier when dealing with school, doctors, etc. Secondly, my dad was a cunt and when I married I couldn't wait to get rid of my maiden name. Thirdly, my maiden name was hard to spell and almost every time I started a new job or joined a new club or took out car insurance or renewed my passport/drivers license, I would have to send it back because it would be spelled wrong. Fourthly, I considered reverting back to MY mum's maiden name, because I loved my Grandma, but my grandpa was also a cunt. So that didn't feel right either.

I'm not "Mrs XH" though, I'm "Ms XH". I have always been Ms since my teens. In fact when I applied for my provisional driving license I sent the first one back because it said "Miss" and I told them they needed to add an option for "Ms" 😂

"Technically" I can still use Mrs because my XH unexpectedly died before the divorce was finalised. So I'm a widow.

@PicsInRed
@IWannaSeeHowItEnds
From a feminist perspective I'd say that patronymic surnames are always going to be patriarchal. It's ridiculous when you think that when a child is given its father's name, there's always a possibility that it might not actually be his child (and I've heard tell that up to 1 in 5 men could be unknowingly parenting a child that isn't theirs by blood.) If the child was given the mother's name automatically (and if women didn't change their name when marrying) then it would make more sense, because when a baby comes out of a woman, it's 100% certain that the baby is hers.

MitziK · 25/04/2019 00:18

The only people I know who insisted on keeping their ex husbands' names thought being Mrs Whatever made them better than women who were divorced or never got married in the first place. And it was something they could refuse to 'give back' or to a second wife in the future - a 'I had it/him first and I'm keeping it'. Would have thought that if you despised somebody so much, you wouldn't want to be seen as part of him for the rest of your life, personally.

Doesn't mean you are. It's my perception of it. But it might be worth considering whether you really want to be seen as the clingy ex who can't let go, rather than the person who left a deadweight behind.

category12 · 25/04/2019 06:33

I'm not sure that's a widespread perception, mitzik Smile. Fortunately for me, anyone who knows us, knows he was the cling-on Grin.

To me, it seems like a lot of effort, having to change your name with everyone, banks etc, and for what? To have a different name to your kids and a fuck-you to your ex? For me, reverting to my family name would mean going back to a name I have no positive associations with; my father's dead, my mother's remarried, I've no siblings or relatives I know of that name, what on earth benefit would it be to me? The name didn't make me "part of him", I was always my own self and I spent x amount of years as that name, it seems like a pettier act to change it than keep it. Our marriage was shit, but I can't erase it and don't want to, it's my history.

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