Ex’s stressful plans for the kids - do we have a choice?

[exisadouche]

Hi all, I'll try to keep a long story short but it won't work.

Split from exP about 4/5 years ago - we share two DC and my eldest from a previous relationship. He moved in with his parents and we had a casual visitation arrangement, whereby he would see the kids at my place. This became far too lax, he started crossing boundaries and staying over as often as he could. Sometimes helpful in a practical way but controlling, nasty and was suffering from substance abuse problems (drinking, smoking and cocaine addiction) and generally poor mental health. Has had 16 jobs in the last 7 years. It was very stressful and any attempt of mine to change the status quo and move him on a bit, was met with fury. But his selfishness was getting too much to deal with and any guilt I felt ended after he moved his unemployed arse into mine with no prior discussion for 5 months and acted like the king of the castle. I had no financial help from him for the kids but every penny he did get his hands on went on gear. A user in every sense of the word.

Late last year he was arrested for beating me up when I asked him to leave. I called the police myself (thankfully all kids were at school at the time). It was an awful time but the long and short is that he finally got removed from mine, I got my key back and he could now only see the kids at his parents house (generally supervised by his mother). The relief was instant. I was always the main carer anyway. I have had to deal with three very distressed kids who have had a lot of upheaval (other unrelated dramas included) although they're getting used to things and calming down. My house is peaceful again.

Ex has gradually improved his behaviour since, gotten another job (albeit another temp job) and claims to be clean (I know this to be not entirely true but I do think there's been a slight improvement). I had some very drunken, regretful tearfulness from him on Thursday night (that my teenager sadly overheard) but I put that down to a one off as there's been no trouble from him for a couple of months. This weekend was his allocated weekend with the kids (he generally sees them every other weekend and 1-2 nights on his non-weekend weeks, if that makes sense). His mum is lovely and helps him out quite heavily.

Anyway, I made the mistake when dropping the kids off, of mentioning to his mum that I was excited to be going for my first night drinking in 8 or 9 months (haven't touched a drop at home either - how very dull)! He appeared over her shoulder suddenly and had obviously overheard. I knew he'd cause me trouble if found out I was going out to have fun - I don't think he can stand not knowing my business any more. I was only going out with my sister but he didn't know that I guess.

Any way, all of Saturday and Sunday he was texting and ringing pointless bits of shit about the kids (nothing urgent, although he sent me a message saying "call me urgently" and when I did he told me a pointless story about how he's grounded the kids from the iPad for a week because they'd been rude to him - a punishment he now expects me to continue). All this trivial shit he could have waited to tell me when I picked the kids up.

My mum and sister were getting annoyed and basically said to me "why can't he leave you to have one free weekend in peace? It's like he needs you to have him and the kids at the front of your mind all the time with no break!" And I hate to say it but they're right - if he'd thought I was spending my childfree weekend at home cleaning (like I usually do) or having a coffee round a mates house, I would have perhaps got 6 or 7 texts maybe. But the mere thought of me getting tipsy and potentially going on the pull and I get over 40 texts and three phone calls)! I ignored the majority of texts but it was ridiculous...

It got worse when I went to pick them up yesterday evening. Not only did he not have them ready so I had to wait around for TWO HOURS whilst he showered himself, then they and just generally faffed. But he then wanted to have a private conversation. I don't want to be in a room alone with him for obvious reasons so I made sure we were in the next room to his mum and that the kids were with us (one cuddling on my lap). I didn't know the content matter yet.

He said; "I hate living here with my dad he's a prick, blah blah blah. I can’t wait until they finalise the sale on this place so I can get out!” [his parents are selling up and moving rurally, house just gone in the market].

I was like "okaaaaay, well maybe you should get your own place now? You are pushing 40!"

Him: "oh I was thinking of moving into my girlfriends new place soon when she gets it. She's moving to [deepest darkest south london]. Probably be completed by September. There will be a spare room for the kids to stay over."

Me: "okay well that's a solution! Great for the weekends but tricky on the weekdays as the kids have school [me and the kids live/go to school/work in Hertfordshire. He currently lives a few miles away in north London].

Him: "oh it'll be fine. I'll still see them every other weekend still and on the weekdays I have them I'll just go back and forth by tube train" [he doesn't drive].

Me: "I hate to put a dampener on your plan, but I'm not sure it's workable. You'll be 35-40 miles away and during rush hour traffic/problems with the trains, the journey could take up to 2-3 hours! It’ll be 3 trains and a bus!!! That much travelling for the kids twice a day, a couple of times a week isn't really fair on them - they're already exhausted most weeks and that's just with their school being around the corner! You also have terrible timekeeping (which you admit yourself) so I'm for-seeing lots of late marks for the kids, which isn't nice for them as they have to miss playtime when they're late. Plus DC2 is autistic and would struggle, maybe even meltdown on the tube. That could be dangerous if they run off. Maybe we should change the plans so that you see them more over weekends/holidays as I'm not thinking your plan is a good one. Or perhaps you could organise your job to work from home or do part time/condensed hours like I've had to? Then you'd get more evening time with them without having to drag them back and forth!"

Him: "Well I think you're making a fuss about nothing - they'll be fine! Plus they're my kids as much as yours, I don't actually need your permission!"

Me: "It's not me being difficult for the sake of it. I'm just trying to think of it from the kids perspective and how taxing that will be for them. If you decide to move so far away from them, you won't be able (or probably willing) to get them back for any weekend activities or friends birthday parties they may have on your weekends and they will miss out on a lot. That's without the midweek travel and stress you're planning! Also what if there's an emergency? Is there any reason you can't move a bit nearer?"

Him: [the truth comes out] "erm, well it's not really up to me as she's buying the place - I'm just going to live there so she gets to chose the location and she wants south."

Me: "okay, well that's up to her and the kids aren't her problem, but your first responsibility should be to your kids, not your romantic life. And hey, if you're not going in on her mortgage then surely you'll have enough money to rent a little studio flat near the kids school for your days with them or even hire a hotel room or an air bnb, right?!"

Him: "why waste money on an extra place?!"

Me: "because the alternative is you seeing the kids a lot less OR making a few sacrifices to see them more. Look - you're the one that's choosing to move so far away from them. You can't expect your pre-existing kids to just slot in with your madcap plans because they suit you. It will really mess them up and I think you know that. I'd obviously love for you to still see them the same amount - I don't want to come in-between your relationship with them. But I do feel I have to advocate for them here - they are already struggling with the upheaval of the last few months and I think this is going to be too much. It needs a rethink..."

Him: "FINE! SEE YOU IN COURT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE LIKE THAT! THEY'RE MY CHILDREN TOO!" [slams door and storms off]

I left with the kids at that point. I don't really know what to do next. Am I in the wrong for worrying about this and insisting he look at some other options? What WOULD a judge say?"

I'd let him go to court tbh (if he actually does it - it will take time and money)

Just to add: ex is lazy with the kids, rarely takes them anywhere on his own and struggles with keeping control of them (especially on public transport)! He’s never taken them alone to their friends birthday parties or extra curricular activities even when living nearby and has a huge problem with lateness and timekeeping. He does love them and they love him. And he is somewhat better with them at indoor pursuits. But I just know his plans are gonna be a killer on all concerned and I’m not sure how to play this next. It’s good that he wants to see them regularly. But he’s an unstable person and very selfish sometimes. I’m not sure he can see how grim his plans are. 35-40 miles might not seem that bad on a weekend, anywhere else in the country. But he doesn’t drive and he’s talking about dragging them all that way through London, on three trains and a bus and in rush hour! It’s more intense than say, driving that amount up the m11 or something.

If his parents weren’t moving then he would have probably carried on using their place as a base to see the kids, even if living with his GF the rest of the time. But as that option won’t be available soon I guess there needs to be a new plan. Any ideas would be appreciated.

My first impression is that you're FAR too chatty and lenient with this dickhead.

If he's texting you that amount and you're responding, you need to stop.

Stop replying to the stupid texts. Only respond when it's basic stuff like "Ill be there at 11." or whatever.

Of course he can't have them during the week. YOU go to court. Get it sorted out now...with his past he hasnt a leg to stand on and to be frank I can't believe you've been this accommodating given the violence and bullying and abuse.

He might possibly drag us to court if he can —leech— access his GF’s cash as she’s apparently loaded! 🙈😁 I have no idea what a judge would suggest - it seems so geared towards what the dad wants rather than what’s best for the kids at the moment and that worries me. I know my kids and they’re only just about coping with the situation now - this would be too much!

I would suggest him expecting his gf to fund his court case and take his focus off her, will dampen her plans to whisk him away tbh. He is all talk. Can he actually manage the dc alone? Especially if one has extra needs... You need to have less communication with him and more guts to ignore.

I did stop replying to all bar the first few texts this weekend as I’d had enough! I just said “I’ll discuss this with you at 5pm” and fully expected to have to hear some waffle on his doorstep - not what actually ended up happening.

I did try and get a non-molestation order it against him late last year, after he was arrested and charged but sadly couldn’t afford the solicitors bills to go ahead with it. When his mum stepped in to say she’d oversee contact until he’d improved that seemed like a suitable compromise but perhaps now he thinks he’s on the straight and narrow, he’s starting to take the piss a lot more. And it was going so well recently!
He’s an arsehole and I can’t stand him. But as far as I’m aware he’s still entitled to access with his kids. I’ve always been accommodating but I am vetoing this stupid plan of his. I wonder if a judge would see it the same way as I do or if I’d be seen as too controlling?

He’s a using addict. He should not be having any unsupervised access, and the supervised access should be MUCH shorter.

Why did you wait at his place for 2 hours while he had a shower? Why not just take the kids and leave?

Yes I'd also wondered why you waited for 2 hours while he showered!?

Look. It’s so unlikely to actually happen that it’s not even worth thinking about!

IF it happens, let the kids do it a few times and see how it goes. I rather suspect he will think it’s FAR too much hassle.

IF he wants to carry on doing it and the
Kids don’t, tell him they won’t be doing it and if he wants to see if a judge thinks it’s a good idea to crack on. Then you could mention the DV, the drugs etc and we what he thinks the judge might think of him carting the kids off to some new gf’s place, miles from home, with his parents nowhere to be seen. I rather expect he will think twice about bothering with court.

Do NOT start letting him see the kids at yours.

HOWEVER, it’s unlikely to happen anyway, so stop worrying about it now. Worrying in advance doesn’t change a single thing in the future and only ruins the ‘now’.

Stop facilitating this.
He has attacked you.
Do not reply to text messages or phone calls, you are doing your children no favours at all.
He is a violent, lazy, druggy.
Don't engage with him.
Start communicating only via e mail.
Let him take you to court.
Report him to the police every time he is violent or abusive and keep a record to show to the courts if he can be bothered taking it that far.
If he gets mid week access, he gets it.
With all due respect you need to start protecting your children.
He is not a good person to be around.

Your ex sounds a lot like mine in that he has these big ideas that make no sense logistically and won't benefit the kids. I learnt a long time ago to just go along with it because it will never happen. When you start arguing about it they see it as a challenge and it spurs them on. Let him do the midweek tube nonsense for a bit and I guarantee it won't last

Why did you wait at his place for 2 hours?

and why are you getting into an argument with him about him moving in with his girlfriend and contact arrangements when it hasn’t even happened yet?

His girlfriend hasn’t even bought a place yet? Why are you having a conversation about this? It probably won’t ever happen.

I think sometimes as mothers we get so court up in accommodating and trying to smooth things over for our children that we dont see the wood through the trees.
He is completely and utterly taking the micky out of you. You can not work with someone who is unreasonable (i also have a very unreasonable ex husband). You need to be putting firm boundaries in place and sticking to them.
He can do what he wants to do with his life, if he wants to take you to court just go with it (you have to actually go to mediation first)
YOur still in an emotional relationship with this man, detach yourself stay strong and focusd for the children and allow him to find his feet as a parent. I suspect he will fall drastically, but again this is his choice.

How old are the kids? Would they say they didn't wasn't to do all that travelling? It seems crazy to do pick up from scho at Sat 3.30 so he'd need to leave his at 2.30, get then home 5ish, feed them etc then leave the house at circa 7 am to get to school for 8.30 ish so up at 6? I imagine it would get old quick Tbh.

You do need to stand up to him more though. You collected the kids from his Mums - why did you stand there waiting for him to shower?

He was in the middle of helping DC2 get ready when I arrived (DC2 is autistic with sensory issues so this an take a while sometimes). He then locked him and DC3 in the bathroom to shower together so I could hardly barge in or just leave with one child. I stayed downstairs with DC2 and had a chat with his parents.

I also try and keep contact minimal, by phone or text and only about the children (I actually rarely see him in person). He's using the kids to have more contact IYSWIM - pointless reasons but still child related and constant. I am ignoring anything that's not relevant but he's very manipulative.

He has taken any gear around the children (always on a night out) but he HAS been hungover and coming down around them, which is what I hugely objected to when the incident happened at the end of last year. Quite a shock. I have written about this man in the past before. It looks as though he is clean now (apart from cigarettes). Im well aware that he's a piece of shit but I'm not sure if that matters in the law. As a semi acceptable father, what rights do I really have if it goes to court? That's what I'm asking.

HASN'T taken any gear around the children! Still a loser though!

How old are the children?

Boundaries. You need bloody boundaries woman. This is a man who is physically and verbally abusive and a using addict.

1. All contact should be supervised anyway until such a time he can prove he is clean and has the best interests of his children at the heart of his behaviour and plans.

1. All communication should be via text on a spare phone. When you plan days/nights out and he has the kids inform him you will not be contacted but in emergencies he can contact a third party who will let you know only if they deem it serious enough.

1. He can move wherever he likes but the children don't have to follow him on contact days if it is not in their best interest. You can stop access or limit access to being weekends only.

1. How is his mother going to supervise contact once he has moved in with gf.

1. Drop offs and pick ups should be that. There is no reason for you to be waiting for him to shower for 2 hours. It takes ten minutes to shove kids into clothes and shoes and get them in the car. He is controlling you and you are letting him.

I wonder if there is still some co-dependence issues on your side because I can't see why you would do this.

1. When he asks for a private chat say no. It's not appropriate to have private chats with someone who assaulted you. It is also not appropriate to use your child as a shield in the hope that he will be reasonable. What resulted was your children hearing a conversation which they should not have had to listen to. It is conflict and not separation that results in negative outcomes for children.

See a solicitor and get a more formal supervised contact arrangement drawn up. You are trying to be flexible with an abusive addict and it's not going to turn out well for you, but more importantly it's not going to turn out well for your lovely kids who deserve more.

Ok it soudns like you need to make some BIG changes OP. You're at his mercy....all this shit with making you wait while he showers etc.

NOPE!

Do the children actually enjoy his company? What's his girlfriend like? Do you trust her to be more responsible around your DC?

Oh and he is not clean if he called you drunk.

I hear what you're all saying. Now I look back he was probably teeing up to starting a row about something when I didn't properly respond to his crying regretful phonecall on Thursday night. And stupid me fell right into the trap. It's horrible that he uses my worry for the kids as a reason to get to me. It's not happening whether he wants it to or not!

I don't believe he IS "semi acceptable" either.

He's beaten the Mother of his kids up. That's enough to make him unacceptable.

I suspect he would get eow and a tea date during the week and half of all school holidays.
He could collect the children from school take them for tea at a local cafe or something and then just return them to you, this would involve them doing no travelling.
Tbh the courts dont appear to take a lot of the abuse into account, also i believe the drug taking is only an issue if taken with the children around. But of course i could be wrong.

Perhaps you need to look at the Freedom Programme. Or counselling to explore why you feel like you need to be so reasonable to someone who is abusing you.