Ex’s stressful plans for the kids - do we have a choice?

[exisadouche]

Hi all, I'll try to keep a long story short but it won't work.

Split from exP about 4/5 years ago - we share two DC and my eldest from a previous relationship. He moved in with his parents and we had a casual visitation arrangement, whereby he would see the kids at my place. This became far too lax, he started crossing boundaries and staying over as often as he could. Sometimes helpful in a practical way but controlling, nasty and was suffering from substance abuse problems (drinking, smoking and cocaine addiction) and generally poor mental health. Has had 16 jobs in the last 7 years. It was very stressful and any attempt of mine to change the status quo and move him on a bit, was met with fury. But his selfishness was getting too much to deal with and any guilt I felt ended after he moved his unemployed arse into mine with no prior discussion for 5 months and acted like the king of the castle. I had no financial help from him for the kids but every penny he did get his hands on went on gear. A user in every sense of the word.

Late last year he was arrested for beating me up when I asked him to leave. I called the police myself (thankfully all kids were at school at the time). It was an awful time but the long and short is that he finally got removed from mine, I got my key back and he could now only see the kids at his parents house (generally supervised by his mother). The relief was instant. I was always the main carer anyway. I have had to deal with three very distressed kids who have had a lot of upheaval (other unrelated dramas included) although they're getting used to things and calming down. My house is peaceful again.

Ex has gradually improved his behaviour since, gotten another job (albeit another temp job) and claims to be clean (I know this to be not entirely true but I do think there's been a slight improvement). I had some very drunken, regretful tearfulness from him on Thursday night (that my teenager sadly overheard) but I put that down to a one off as there's been no trouble from him for a couple of months. This weekend was his allocated weekend with the kids (he generally sees them every other weekend and 1-2 nights on his non-weekend weeks, if that makes sense). His mum is lovely and helps him out quite heavily.

Anyway, I made the mistake when dropping the kids off, of mentioning to his mum that I was excited to be going for my first night drinking in 8 or 9 months (haven't touched a drop at home either - how very dull)! He appeared over her shoulder suddenly and had obviously overheard. I knew he'd cause me trouble if found out I was going out to have fun - I don't think he can stand not knowing my business any more. I was only going out with my sister but he didn't know that I guess.

Any way, all of Saturday and Sunday he was texting and ringing pointless bits of shit about the kids (nothing urgent, although he sent me a message saying "call me urgently" and when I did he told me a pointless story about how he's grounded the kids from the iPad for a week because they'd been rude to him - a punishment he now expects me to continue). All this trivial shit he could have waited to tell me when I picked the kids up.

My mum and sister were getting annoyed and basically said to me "why can't he leave you to have one free weekend in peace? It's like he needs you to have him and the kids at the front of your mind all the time with no break!" And I hate to say it but they're right - if he'd thought I was spending my childfree weekend at home cleaning (like I usually do) or having a coffee round a mates house, I would have perhaps got 6 or 7 texts maybe. But the mere thought of me getting tipsy and potentially going on the pull and I get over 40 texts and three phone calls)! I ignored the majority of texts but it was ridiculous...

It got worse when I went to pick them up yesterday evening. Not only did he not have them ready so I had to wait around for TWO HOURS whilst he showered himself, then they and just generally faffed. But he then wanted to have a private conversation. I don't want to be in a room alone with him for obvious reasons so I made sure we were in the next room to his mum and that the kids were with us (one cuddling on my lap). I didn't know the content matter yet.

He said; "I hate living here with my dad he's a prick, blah blah blah. I can’t wait until they finalise the sale on this place so I can get out!” [his parents are selling up and moving rurally, house just gone in the market].

I was like "okaaaaay, well maybe you should get your own place now? You are pushing 40!"

Him: "oh I was thinking of moving into my girlfriends new place soon when she gets it. She's moving to [deepest darkest south london]. Probably be completed by September. There will be a spare room for the kids to stay over."

Me: "okay well that's a solution! Great for the weekends but tricky on the weekdays as the kids have school [me and the kids live/go to school/work in Hertfordshire. He currently lives a few miles away in north London].

Him: "oh it'll be fine. I'll still see them every other weekend still and on the weekdays I have them I'll just go back and forth by tube train" [he doesn't drive].

Me: "I hate to put a dampener on your plan, but I'm not sure it's workable. You'll be 35-40 miles away and during rush hour traffic/problems with the trains, the journey could take up to 2-3 hours! It’ll be 3 trains and a bus!!! That much travelling for the kids twice a day, a couple of times a week isn't really fair on them - they're already exhausted most weeks and that's just with their school being around the corner! You also have terrible timekeeping (which you admit yourself) so I'm for-seeing lots of late marks for the kids, which isn't nice for them as they have to miss playtime when they're late. Plus DC2 is autistic and would struggle, maybe even meltdown on the tube. That could be dangerous if they run off. Maybe we should change the plans so that you see them more over weekends/holidays as I'm not thinking your plan is a good one. Or perhaps you could organise your job to work from home or do part time/condensed hours like I've had to? Then you'd get more evening time with them without having to drag them back and forth!"

Him: "Well I think you're making a fuss about nothing - they'll be fine! Plus they're my kids as much as yours, I don't actually need your permission!"

Me: "It's not me being difficult for the sake of it. I'm just trying to think of it from the kids perspective and how taxing that will be for them. If you decide to move so far away from them, you won't be able (or probably willing) to get them back for any weekend activities or friends birthday parties they may have on your weekends and they will miss out on a lot. That's without the midweek travel and stress you're planning! Also what if there's an emergency? Is there any reason you can't move a bit nearer?"

Him: [the truth comes out] "erm, well it's not really up to me as she's buying the place - I'm just going to live there so she gets to chose the location and she wants south."

Me: "okay, well that's up to her and the kids aren't her problem, but your first responsibility should be to your kids, not your romantic life. And hey, if you're not going in on her mortgage then surely you'll have enough money to rent a little studio flat near the kids school for your days with them or even hire a hotel room or an air bnb, right?!"

Him: "why waste money on an extra place?!"

Me: "because the alternative is you seeing the kids a lot less OR making a few sacrifices to see them more. Look - you're the one that's choosing to move so far away from them. You can't expect your pre-existing kids to just slot in with your madcap plans because they suit you. It will really mess them up and I think you know that. I'd obviously love for you to still see them the same amount - I don't want to come in-between your relationship with them. But I do feel I have to advocate for them here - they are already struggling with the upheaval of the last few months and I think this is going to be too much. It needs a rethink..."

Him: "FINE! SEE YOU IN COURT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE LIKE THAT! THEY'RE MY CHILDREN TOO!" [slams door and storms off]

I left with the kids at that point. I don't really know what to do next. Am I in the wrong for worrying about this and insisting he look at some other options? What WOULD a judge say?"

He’s jerking your chain. (Though possibly subconsciously because it’s the only way he knows how to get attention)

The way to deal with these requests is a noncommittal ‘that’s nice dear‘ to all of them. He wants you to say hell no, and get stressed.

He’s a lazy scrounging shite. Even if that arrangement does come to pass, how long, exactly do you think it will last. It will cost a fortune, money he could spend on booze and fags.

Document everything you can remember right now - the drug use, coming down around the kids, screenshot abusive texts. It sounds as if youre going to need as much evidence as possible.

Wow I really resent being told that I used my own child as a shield! That's not true at all! The drunken phonecall happened at almost midnight when I assumed DC1 was in bed. I put a very quick end to the phonecall but DC1 had unfortunately overheard it and came in to ask if I was okay.

As I say, he had been behaving appropriately (a bit text heavy but otherwise much better) for the last 2-3 months so I'm a little taken aback by both his behaviour and also the assumption that I've just let him carry on telling me what to do. I've worked very hard to put in strong boundaries against him and thus far it's been much more pleasant. This weekend has thrown me.

And stupid me fell right into the trap. It's horrible that he uses my worry for the kids as a reason to get to me. It's not happening whether he wants it to or not!

Too late.

You are in far too much contact with him. Tell him that as his mum is supervising the visits, you only want to hear from her during his contact time, and only in an emergency.

Don't even consider the implications of the move South for now. Let him crack on and stop doing his thinking for him.

I don't want to be in a room alone with him for obvious reasons so I made sure we were in the next room to his mum and that the kids were with us (one cuddling on my lap).

Sorry but that is using your child as a shield - quite literally.

So he attacked you resulting in a criminal conviction?
He was abusive when you were together?
He’s irregular with contact?
He continues a coercive controlling relationship after you’ve broken up?
He’s a drug addict/ ex drug addict who still dabbles?
He borders neglectful when they’re with him?
He cannot control his autistic child to a point where he could lose them?
He’s moving in excess of an hour away?

And he thinks the court will grant him additional access?
Lol, let him waste his girlfriend’s money, he sounds a fucking prick.

My friend moved 40 miles away from her ex. He took her to court and the court ruled that the upheaval and extra travel (similar to what you are describing) would not be in the children’s best interest. He was awarded custody.

Thinking on that I’m sure any court would rule in your favour - having a stupid journey like that for school wouldn’t be for their benefit, just his.

Gosh you have been giving him far too much attention. Seriously woman sort your boundaries out. You should have left with the two kids and told his mum to tell him to get the youngest back to you as he wasn't ready. He's an abuser. He hasn't changed. He's still abusing you. In front of his parents and in front of your children. And you're letting him.

Can't see this 'loaded' girlfriend (if that's true) putting up with these ideas for long. Agree with the posters saying let it go to court. And ignore all texts! The second phone is a good idea.

This is too close for comfort with an abusive addict.

Tbh I wouldn’t have had the conversation with him in front of the children. They shouldn’t be listening to that.

I’d be inclined to think midweek visits would have been too much for him to stick to anyway. But it’s done now.

Let him take you to court. Might cop him on!

Okay so - you are too lenient with him, but you know that. I get it though. You are trying to do the best for your children. Nobody can blame you for that. Co-parenting is hard and there's no guidebook to teach you how to do it - nor is there only one way to do it.

With regard to your actual question, I don't think the courts would ever go for his arrangement. Your points are all correct - the children would suffer by being late to school and being dragged on a lengthy commute through London. I'm Scottish, I don't know London well, but I can imagine what the transport is like a rush hour. If he does take you to court, state your case as you have in the OP. He's the one moving away - no one is asking him to.

Im sorry to say but there is still a level of co dependency from you. I get it i really do, this was me a year or so ago. But your kidding yourself you really are. Co dependency comes hand in hand with abusive relationships, esp ones where the other partner is an addict.

Your trying to smooth over the cracks, but this is not sustainable. You need to do some serious sole searching and dig deep to get some strength to mentally detach from this moron. Its hard it really is but its a necessity and will benefit your children.

Your really not seeing him for what he is (i mean this kindly) your still singing to his tune. Just because he has been ok for a couple of months, you lowered your guard. The truth is he hasnt changed and wont change, hes manipulative and controlling. YOu need to set your standards and your boundries and live by them. He will spend a lot of time trying to take that control back and things will probably get a lot worse before they start to get better, but never belive he will change cos he wont.

I did a lot of research into personality disorders and very quickly realised that he is more than abusive there is actually something else going on. I can not and i mean can not reason with my ec husband, he always does the opposite of what i suggest regardless of if its in the best interest of the children or not. Our children are young but they are already seeing what their father is like. I do not cover over the cracks neither do i bad mouth him.

Can you get some legal advise? half an hours free legal advise or you may be entitled to legal aid??

I'm sorry you didn't like what I had to say OP. But you were uncomfortable being alone with him in case he kicked off so you made sure your kids were in the room and you had one on your knee. It is literally using them as a shield.

Op sorry but you are still being far to involved with him....

Listen really listen to what previous posters have said about how to hand over and deal with calls/texts.
Seperate phone.Don't give him your usual number
If he is concerned enough to call you he has to be verified by third party.(when he has DCS)
If he NEEDS to speak to you he can email re subject, (only check once a day)
Don't EVER put yourself into a room with him and no other responsible person, he is a vicious thug remember.
If Dcs are not ready, leave and come back at an agreed time, repeat, repeat repeat. Sit in car if necessary.

You have to cut him off

Hi and thanks for your replies. I've just got back indoors after being out for the day so probably should have waited before I started this thread this morning.

Okay, to clarify - I DID NOT use my child as a human shield and nor would I ever. That's a needlessly inflammatory and unkind thing to say, although I admit I probably didn't explain myself well. As I mentioned before, exP was upstairs in the shower with DC3. I had DC2 downstairs on my lap whilst I was chatting to exP's mum and waiting for them to finish up. I was ALREADY IN THE ROOM when exP came in and started talking and his mum then went into the adjoining kitchen through double doors and busied herself in there. She was entirely privy to the conversation and is aware of her son's shite. So we weren't unsafe. Also DC2 at that point climbed off my lap and started playing with DuoLingo on the iPad WITH headphones on, so thankfully didn't hear. DC3 was walking in and out so may have heard some but the kids granddad was in the front room, away from the kitchen diner, so DC3 was mostly hanging with him. We were safe with his parents right there (his mum in earshot) and actually, I was in the room first before he came in and started waffling. I was perfectly calm when making my points but he stormed off upstairs with the jump. His mum sympathised with me before me and the kids left. DC1 by the way, is from a prior relationship so was with family from that side this weekend.

As I also mentioned before, this behaviour was unexpected seeing as he's been entirely reasonable since the beginning of February now and I was hoping things were on the up and he was finally sorting himself out. Sadly, I think his behaviour this weekend suggests that he is probably incapable of being reasonable and making long term changes - at least where me and the kids are concerned. So yes, I will have to react accordingly. And no I don't think I am co-dependant any more (I fully admit that I used to be!). My boundaries have been pretty solid thus far - he is blocked from all of my social media and WhatsApp, is not allowed near my house and can only communicate about the kids via text message. I rarely see him actually as it usually all goes through his mum, who I have been working hard with to keep things civil but distant with exP for the kids sake. Although it looks like my guard dropped this weekend and he took the piss immediately. Obviously it's back to basics again where he's concerned, however sad it is for the kids (and his poor mum who must be so tired of him).

There's a long sad story behind all this and was a nice, normal, SOBER human being for the first decade I knew him and was a decent step-father to my oldest child. Sadly over the last 7 years he has lost his damn mind, started doing drugs and losing jobs and generally being a cunt an it's been a horrible, horrible time, watching him destroy himself and all around him. I do protect my kids though and he was gone as soon as found out about the drugs in 2014/15. I began to trust him again over time (just in a friendship way, no more) but in November as soon as I found out he was using again and asked him to leave, he beat me up. At this point onwards he was irredeemable to me. I called the police on him for this reason. And he was arrested and punished.

I have been the sober, responsible parent all my young DC's life (not one drink for 8 months as I mentioned in my OP, and it was another 5 months before that as well). I am doing my best. But I am a single mother of three on a shoestring budget - I can't afford to pay for a solicitor and take him to court and I don't qualify for legal aid (does anyone)?! And if he wants to take me to court then I'll have to represent myself. Which doesn't sound fun. Because he is in and out of work so often, maintenance is patchy (although he doesn't seem against paying it - he's just unreliable in general). I'm doing my best with a really shit situation and I have his family on my side. But I can see that he just isn't ready yet to properly put the kids first and behave selflessly. So yes of course I will step in. No idea what comes next. All I was hoping to find out is if anyone knew whether or not a judge would rule his plans for the kids as reasonable. Surely not?!

Yes well that is a VERY different story to the one you told earlier.

No one is questioning your love for your kids or your dedication to them. And it does sound as though you have been through the ringer. But courts are more likely to rule in favour of you if you have been demonstrating that your complaints have not been made up for the sake of the court.

If you tried to use in court that he can't be trusted to take the child to London, for example, due to alcohol or drug dependency, a judge may ask why you have been happy for him to have unsupervised contact here.

The thing is- no one knows what way a court will rule. Once you let a judge (or Sheriff) decide it is completely out of your hands.

Personally I would hope, like you, that the judge would see his proposal as wholly unreasonable.

Good luck op.

I'm not entirely sure yet whether he's going to be capable of unsupervised contact when he leaves his mums or if the supervision will move over to his his girlfriend, who I have never actually met (although the kids have met her twice and seem to like her enough which is good). It's a really difficult thing to decide. He has mental health and substance abuse issues and has behaved atrociously towards me so by extension that now not only rules him out as an equal career but probably makes him a bad dad. Although he is affectionate and gentle towards the kids, he is also lazy and a bit clueless really. I mean any idiot can see that what he's proposing with all that travel is completely unworkable (it's barely workable for the weekends). But he will give it a good go - at our children's expense!

I wish he'd be selfless enough to either get his own, nearer place - OR - adjust his working hours/agree to more holiday time visits to make up for it. But he wants to see himself as a dedicated dad rather than actually being one. And that means frequency rather than actually looking closely at their needs. Maybe I'm being unfair? I know he misses them hugely when they're not there and do would I if I were him. But he consistently makes choices in his personal life that don't tally up with being a decent dad. Even if he WAS willing, he just doesn't seem capable of sustaining a less selfish way of life. There's no sacrifices made on his part ever.

He's going to expect me to roll over on this but I won't. And that's when I worry that he will take it kicking and screaming to court and a judge may order 50-50 (with me doing the travelling - I've heard of shit like this happening before) which would be utterly catastrophic for the DC's. Hopefully not and hopefully it doesn't even go to court and he relents on this issue. But I'm sure there'll be something else soon enough because there always is with him - I'm so exhausted already and I've got to deal with this man for a lonnnnnng time to come.

Just going to keep doing grey rock but standing my ground on this issue. I think I need to look at what my legal options truly are. If there are any legal eagles online then I'd be much obliged...🙏🏻

Thanks for the luck

the person that moves is the one that has to travel not the other way around.

if he has been violent it's on police records surely and the SS would have been involved.

If he takes it to court this will be brought up and he might get supervised visits only in a contact centre if his parents move and he has moved into his girlfriends because she might be deemed unsuitable or she might not even want to do this for him at all.

One day at a time and dont roll over for him.

He’s an addict, I doubt a judge will give 50/50 or allow your autistic child to travel mid week for several hours. Tell him to take you to court, fuck him. He has no chance.

You need to close up your drawbridge, OP, you’ve let him away with far too much recently, probably because you’re a nice person. He, however, is not. Boundaries in place and be consistent.