We had a HUGE row last night.

[Flossam]

OK in two minds whether to post this or not but here goes...
Me and DP had a huge row last night when he got in from work. He is an obsessional Virgo (!) and likes to come home to a spotless house. The house wasn't particularly messy, at least in my book, just a card to post to my mum on the table and something he had asked me to get him. There were a few things on the sofa next to me, and the kitchen spray was still on the kitchen side rather than the windowsill. Anyway he comes home and starts going off on one about the state of the house, how I have had some days off and why haven't I done the cleaning? Started doing his usual 'What is this doing here? Why is that there? Does this need to be here?' all shouted at me.

To cut a long story short I rose to it and ended up going nuts at him, tried to go away to the bedroom to calm down, where he came in and started at me again, cue more shouting etc. It it the worst row we have had for a long time.

He has gone out today and now I won't see him at all for the weekend as I am working and he has friends down. I think this was partly why he wanted the house to be sorted, but these are his friends, his arrangements why should I tidy up every time? He never does any cleaning, any of the washing (then complains he never has anything to wear), or cooking and I have to do pretty much all of the maintenance type things around the house because he just wouldn't ever bother to do it. I don't want to be the little woman at home who is responsible for all the household chores, at least when I am working full time as well as him.

My plan was that we could sort out the house together today. I've been off work sick and have hardly been feeling up to doing much. I'm six and a half months pregnant and I have to say this whole pregnancy malarky has knocked me for six. I'm always knackered and still trying to work full time doing 12 and a half hour shifts (nights as well) in a very physical and mentally demanding job. I also worry about the baby, rows and stress can't be good for him in there, after all that last night he stopped moving for quite a while, I told DP (as I was worried) and he told me I had probably scared him to death with all my shouting . He hasn't bothered to find out if things are ok with him today (which they are)

I have a fair idea that this argument is to do with all the stress we are starting to feel (well I know I am anyway) about trying to move house next month and the iminent arrival of our baby. When life gets a bit tougher we always seem to take it out on the other which is a shame really. What I would really like to know is would you apologise? I know I acted unreasonably but this behaviour on his part is not acceptable to me and by apologising I am letting it pass IYSWIM? It is always normally me who apologises, just because he is incredibly stubborn and I don't like to live my life this way. But I can't help feeling that it is a shame that this is the only day off we could of had together all week and he's taken himself away somewhere rather than try to resolve things.

Oh well, I feel a bit better having had a good moan. Sorry!

Your dp would have a fit if he even called at our house! I often can't open the front door because of the pile of shoes on the mat just inside the door! But then, we do have 4 children and I have never been a great housewife and dh has never demanded a single thing of me domestically (he doesn't help much in the house but he doesn't criticise if I do nothing either). I'm afraid your dp has a shock in store when you first have the baby and, unless you want this situation to continue - imagine when the child is older every day having to clear up all their toys before he walks in the house - I suggest you sit down when things have blown over and talk about your expectations and the fact that you are in a partnership.

In my experience the more you do for a dp with this attitude the less credit you get. I'd go on strike! you've enough with work and pregnancy let alone running after him. Esp tidying up for his weekend with friends while you at work!! Agree with MeanBean, makes me mad when male input is regarded as 'help', female input as 'well, naturally, and ooops you missed a bit'. However it may be that he's stressed with the move and that's why he's acting so unreasonably. Hope you can talk it through. and hope you feel better soon. Does sound as if you're bearing a disproportionate part of the load at present. Oh, and my dp NEVER says sorry if he can avoid it.

WTF is it with some men?! This has made my blood boil. Won't be able to write anything helpful because I'm so on your behalf, Floss, but you have had loads of good advice here.

I hate it when men lifting a finger around their own house is regarded as helping the little woman, just as I hate men who regard spending time with their their own child as babysitting. GRRRRR. Don't apologise, and demand a present, flowers at the very least, a meal out or preferably jewellery

Everyone on Mumsnet is right and he is wrong!
My dh would be dead if he talked to me like that. "What's this doing here?" "Why? Would you prefer it rammed up your arse?"
Sorry, apparently Pluto is in Cancer atm.

Crikey Flossam, your dp should count his lucky stars he doesn't live at my house.
My dp once did this, he came home and anounced that dd should be in bed asleep and all toys should be put away. I took his highness' word for it, and when he came home the next day everything was immaculate, dd and I were both tucked up in bed and he could get his own dinner... the next day dd refused to comply and dp heard her giggling in our room, he came rushing in and when I told him to keep it down dd would be asleep any minute now, he said 'No no, she's obviously awake we can't force her to sleep' and whisked her off downstairs, I relented and got his dinner for him and to date he has not made any demands on me since. But dp's life revolves around dd and I have to say dp does his share of the housework and doesn't expect a pristine house anymore. BTW mines a virgo too, still no excuse for such ridiculous behaviour and I work part time so perhaps he can expect it of me, but we are human if he feels tired after work well so do you.

I work part-time at home, am married to a Virgo and I am emphatically NOT in charge of housework. Choosing paint colours, yes. Housework, absolutely not.

Do you know, if I was you I'd throw a sickie over next week, and I don't mean from work! In your shoes, I'd come home from work, sigh a lot, tell him how tired you are, go straight to bed (get yourself some food on the way home). Do this 3 or 4 days in a row, so he has to do some of the stuff himself, go long enough that he has to wash & iron clothes, wash dishes etc. after that if you cook, make sure you just can't clear up afterwards, "Darling, I just can't stand in the kitchen another minute, my legs/back/head aches soooo much. You will clear up won't you"

Really lay it on with a trowel. You have 2 1/2 months to get him used to looking after you, cos you're going to need it when baby arrives. You've left his house-training too long already. START NOW

Ooo flossam! Your dp has unleashed the wrath of mumsnet and no mistake. I have to say I agree that he's well out of order- I think you have been most restrained in allowing him to remain alive. I also agree that no apologies from you should be forthcoming. Sit him down and make him read this thread instead.

And you should both read "Wifework" by Susan Maushart- have you read it, meanbean? Think you'd enjoy it if you haven't.

Agree with Easy - sort him out NOW and lower his expectations.

PS I'm married to a Virgo too and he gets very short shrift if he complains about anything....he tidies the kids toys up himself if it bothers him...and I'm SAHM

I think the problem is we both work long shifts. So I don't get home till gone 9pm, and no he dosen't expect me to do the housework then! He was supposed to of cooked for me the other night though and I got home and the oven was on alright, nothing in it and him nicely glazed and dreamy on the sofa after several beers... I have to admit, as I carried the iron over to do my clothes for the next day I could of easily had a 'little mo' incident ! He will sometimes get something together when I get home. I always have something for him when he gets it, couldn't imagine it any other way.

What I am trying to say is I probably make more work for myself really. When he is at work I'll cook a meal which invariable wont get cleaned up or washed up that evening then it is up to me to sort it out the next day (cause he is back at work). I normally do the housework when I am off on my own, for twofold reason, a) it's easier to get on with when I'm alone b) he'll start bemoaning why things are where they are and moan about how messy I am if he has to help.

It is quite strange really. All this behaviour only started a year ago when we arrived up here. This coincides with settling in London together and him finishing his training and starting his new job, so I do think it is to do with how stressed he is. My last flat was an ABSOLUTE pig sty almost all of the time. I'm naturally a messy person, I think there are more important things to worry about, and he knows I've never been any different.

When he gets like this there is little I can do to appease him. He does become comletely unreasonable and it is bullish and seems a form of trying to get control. He dosen't recognise things when I do do them, for example cleaning out and tidying the kitchen ready for moving a few weeks ago, he just asked why I hadn't tidied the bedroom, as he would appreciate that more , so I don't really feel any want to do these things as it is a thankless task.

However, it is a very rare occurance that I come back and the flat isn't wonderfully tidy (if not clean!). The thing he dosen't seem to appreciate is it takes little time to tidy and a lot longer to clean IYSWIM. I could go on strike, but other than the mess I don't think he would really notice. It has been threatened lots of times, but as you can imagine is a lot harder to carry through.

One last thing (sorry I've been rambling) is I don't think I do explain how I feel at the moment very well. I feel like I'm a whinging miserable cow, but when I said this to someone he said he thought I'd been very good! I think he has realised that I'm not really enjoying being pregnant, but I don't know if I'm not moaning enough or if he just switches off from me! Only the other day he says to be, 'God your back seems to hurt all the time!' Umm, yes and it has done since May!! Men!

Sorry that challenges my original post for long windedness!

Blimey, you have got to get this discussed before the baby arrives. it changes everything. If you don't make it clear that the baby is joint resposibility, that you will share getting up in the night and that tidyness will no longer be a priority of any kind for you, then you will really start to resent him once sleep deprivation etc starts to take its toll. I do wonder when you say this started when you settled in London together, could it be that he now regards you as his wife, not his carefree girlfriend and has expectations of you based on his own parents' roles in their relationship? If so, then you do need to thrash this out now. After the baby is IMO too late.

Good lord, I agree with everyone. Poor you, definitely go on strike and show him this thread.

Flossom i am a SAHM and if dh came home and spoke to me like that wow i would put ant powder in her work clothes. But then he wouldn't he spent the first yr at home looking after dd and i went to work we have changed over now so he knows how difficult it can be. Suggest that to your dp mmmm

He does say that he wants to be completely involved with the baby, and we plan that he will be caring for him when I am at work. So provided that works out he aint all bad! I've been very good and just left him too it today, no idea where he is or anything but I'm not going to text etc. Thanks for letting me vent on here, I was on the verge of texting him to come home... Was sitting here just wanting a hug really! How sad am I? I will try and talk to him on Sunday and see if we can sort some things out. Thanks for all your help.

Flossam you must have the patience of a saint to put up with that. If DH behaved like this now he'd be in big trouble. If he'd done it while I was pg there would have been bloodshed. All those pg hormones made me much fiercer than normal. I too moved house when heavily pg and it is v stressful but you seem to be coping better than him.

I'm really amazed that you took all that sh1t from him. Don't think that you are a miserable whingeing cow YOU ARE BEING MORE THAN REASONABLE. And I would advise, like all the others, that you get this issue, and your finance plan, sorted before Baby arrives (have you seen moneysavingexpertdotcom for finance advice - very very good)

Good luck.

ScummyMummy, I'm off to the library!

flossam - I am a SAHM looking after a 2yo and due in Nov like you - dh would not dare say things like that cause I am lucky if I get to do anything around the house. I am exhausted by the time dd is in bed - I may do dinner but he does dinner and helps with dd and does housework around the house. You will be even more exhausted when the babe comes - and you will find it difficult to have the immaculate house and so on...

Doesn't matter how stressed he is - no need to take it out on you. When I was pregnant with dd - working full time, we were in the process of selling our house - so dh would do the cleaning etc for viewings, we also had to worry about a baby we knew would be born with special needs and a heart defect - BUT dh never ever took his stress out on me - really is a poor excuse on your dp's part.

If he has friends coming to stay - he bloody well does the cleaning and tidying up... not up to you.

As for rushing you back to work - what purpose will that solve in terms of paying off debts sooner - I am sure you will find yourself paying for childcare - if he is this moany about a house I don't think the reality of looking after a child has sunk in...... therefore your debts will take further to pay off.

You probably find you are better off staying at home - if it works with family tax credits, dhild benefit and so on.. as well as not having the added expense that would come from you working.

Sorry but he is bang out of order...... he does nothing around the house whilst you work full time, are pregnant and do all the house duties...... what makes him think this will suddenly change and he will become involved in the care of the baby....... Given his present behaviour I find that hard to believe.... he may prove me wrong.....

FWIW - I would hire a cleaner to clean the house and keep it up after the baby is born.

Flossam, if you are doing all the housework, then he probably doesn't realise how much work it is. No excuse for being so selfish, but I really do think you need to go on strike, just so he can see how much you do. Seems to work for couples on wife-swap! Seriously, can you get away for a few days? Once he has to look after the house himself, he might realise that the fairies don't actually come overnight and tidy up and put a new loo roll in the holder, etc. etc. etc. If you keep doing all this, he'll never realise just how long it takes.

With the debts, I think he needs to take responsibility for his own debts. You CAN'T work extra shifts when you have a tiny baby, you'll be exhausted anyway and you'll want some time with your ds/dd and end up resenting him (deservedly).
Really would suggest you both of you make an appointment at the Citizen's Advice Bureau - they give expert advice on debt management, completely in your interest (unlike debt management companies who just rip you off) and it's free. If people get to the stage where they are being harassed by lots of different companies or threatened with bailiffs they even handle all the communication themselves.

Flossam - I wouldn't apologise but I think he should. My dh is just like yours but he's a Gemini (I'm the Virgo). I could go on for hours (but I won't) about this. For your own health and that of the baby you need to ask him to show you what you should do and tell him how you're feeling. Maybe even get him one of those pregnancy bellies to lug around for the next few months.

Hi there, thanks for all your kind words. Still haven't heard from him . He didn't come home last night and hasn't tried to ring or text so god only knows really!

When he does come back (if!)I think maybe I do need to point out that I'm finding this pregnancy malarky quite tough really! Maybe I haven't made enough of it IYSWIM. I do think I have to point out too that if the house not being tidy upsets him, then it is up to him to resolve, it is his issue, not mine. Hill will do things about the place sometimes. He'll wash up whenever it needs doing and he's off, but he won't think to do the dusting/put washing on, but I thought most men were like that really.

The debts, although huge are under control. I have taken out a loan to sort what I have got and almost all his debts are in one place and are being payed off every month (to the tune of about £500). So our money is getting sorted, but it is making things harder in the short term. So we will see about that. If things need to be rethought then fine. He want's me to work the extra shifts so we can save up more to pay things off quicker.

Anyway, thanks very much for all your support. I hope we can sort everything out tomorrow as now really isn't the time to be getting so upset about things.

dear flossam, my dp was/is similar to yours. if i spent all day cleaning,he would come home and pick the smallest thing i hadnt done and make a smart comment. we give the impression we can handle anything but really all we want is to be appreciated and treat how we treat them (with amaising restaraint!)my dp was recently been made redundant and although this causes stress cos like you said they like to be the money spinner, he has realised how hard my days (and nights )are! and is trying to get parttime work so he can still help me.
you and your baby are more important then a bloody cleaning product not in the correct spot! tell him you are not his mother nor his un paid skivvy, you work as hard(harder! )than he does and manage to keep your house as well as grow your baby and if he carries on being a git this could cause problems.
also make sure he sticks to his word about being involved when babba arrives! we had plans for me to go out at least once a week and have time to myself, but partly through my own fault of pretending i could manage a screaming, mucusy newborn still awake at 4 in the morning and constantly throwing every feed up and thinking it was"my duty as a mother" to deal with all her needs i am now spening my 13th month of not having a night out(no family around to babysit)and only get one hour a week on my own for a driving lesson. share baby responsabilities equally (even get him doing more than you as you will have just done something so incredibly amaising, you deserve the next 6 months on light duties)!!!! good look, i feel for you chick.xxx

He hasn't come home yet?! But your last post - about wanting a hug from him - was more than 24 hours ago! What is he playing at?

woops... also, regarding money, i was horribly made redundant from work as i was due to return from maternity and through one thing and another have not returned anywhere else.
we sold our house (good profit) ansput whole amount down as deposit on smaller!.
YOU are what you're baby needs, its not important if your debts will be paid off in 5 or 10 years, your baby wont know to appreciate that, what it will know is that having its mummy around to play with every day is great and the best possible start to its life. through money worries and family problem etc, it took me a long time to bond with my dd, but now after 16 months together, she is my best little friend and everyone comments on how advnced she is because i spend time with her, playing teaching and loving her.... thats the sort of stuff they need.xxx