How do you teach children about good relationships if you aren’t in?

[PicnicAtHangingRock]

I recognise the importance of modelling good behaviour and relationships and the way that that influences children, both short and long term but if you are not in a good relationship and you don’t have friends and family around who are, then what do you do? Is there any way to make up that ground?

I don’t know what to do other than try to model kindness and love in my interactions with the children themselves. I am sure I am not the first to ask myself how to deal with this and I wonder what other people do, what steps people have taken to try to mitigate the lack of good relationship role models in their lives?

Thank you for sharing if you have any experience of this or thoughts on the matter.

Sorry I messed up the thread title. Obviously it meant to say “if you aren’t in one”.

I’m going to give this one bump to see if any evening readers have any thoughts. Admittedly it probably isn’t the catchiest of topics!

Are you in a "bad" relationship, or just not in one? Because big difference between the two in terms of modelling. Modelling "you don't need a relationship that doesn't make your life better!" is still important. People need to realise life isn't all about romantic relationships and pursuing them. People with happy childhoods with happy parents can still be prone to doing this, chasing "what they had" etc.

Yes to the above. I think one of the best ways to avoid having bad relationships is to be happy single and have high expectations of any potential partner.

If however you are in a bad relationship then that’s what will be modelled 😢

Thank you for replying, Boilerbap. I could be accused of trying to have my cake and eat it because I was hoping to keep it general and not focus too much on my own personal circumstances but perhaps it isn’t fair to expect people to respond without saying something about my situation and why I am asking.

I have an unhappy relationship with the father of my children. We separated when the youngest was days old because I didn’t want to endure the effects of an unhappy relationship, but for financial and other reasons which are so particular that I don’t want to divulge for fear of making myself recognisable, he moved back into the family home about a year ago and will likely be here for another six months. We are sharing the house but we are not a couple. We don’t share a bedroom.

You have made a good point though. When we do go our separate ways I have no intention of looking for a new relationship and I suppose I worry that the children will never see what that is actually supposed to look like. But if they see what it is to be cared for and treated with love and kindness, then hopefully they will carry that with them and it will serve them well and knowing that you can be happy without a romantic relationship is possibly not such a terrible thing either.

I am frustrated though that in the meantime, I can’t seem to speed up our proper separation and I feel awful that the longer they see the “bad model” the more ingrained that is going to be and the harder it will be to undo.

Thank you, museumum. Sorry I hadn’t seen your response when I posted.

As I mentioned, I have no problem being single and I don’t need to be in a relationship. Obviously being alone is hard on a practical level but it’s much easier and healthier than having a terrible relationship.

Sometimes I think DH and I don't model very well as we're not very cuddly with each other and we sleep in separate rooms. But we are kind to each other and rarely argue. It's maybe better to show children that relationships aren't all hearts and flowers and someone has to take the bin out....? Just my thoughts.

Gotmychocolate, you guys sound like you’ve nailed it to me.

I’ve wondered this too. I’ve been a single Mum for just over a year. The marriage was hideous by the end - not modelling good relationships at all. I don’t see myself with anyone ever again. All I do is try to show having good relationships either people in general whether that be family members, friends, colleagues, people out and about in general.

I wonder about this too. My children have never seen me in a relationship (I have had a few but DC never knew about them) the upside of this is they’ve never seen me have horrible rows but of course they’ve never seen the good stuff too.

I agree it's far better to be single than in an unhealthy relationship.

It also depends on the ages of the DC and how much they understand about your situation and relationships.

Whilst showing them love and care is fine, their seeing how a parent is towards a child and may believe the relationship between their parents as normal...especially if they dont see Aunts/Uncles or grandparents in healthy relationships.

I was in and out of relationships in my younger years, all with my DS in tow I’m afraid. I always kept my own house so we had a secure base but I often felt I wasn’t a good role model on the relationship front. However we have a very genuine and close relationship now, he and I. And I think it’s because I was always honest with him. We are not there to live up to other peoples’ Expectations, including our children’s, just as they are not there to live up to ours.

It's maybe better to show children that relationships aren't all hearts and flowers and someone has to take the bin out..

I think this sets very low expectations in relationships for them tbh and could make them settle for someone in the future.

It just seems like plodding along and not fulfilling or exciting.

I don't think kids need to see their parents constantly cuddling either. That just embarrasses them.

...and you can have a loving physical relationship and he still takes the bins out.

Having said that... at least you're kind to each other and I do hear some adults say they want a much better and loving relationship than what saw their parents had.

We are not there to live up to other peoples’ Expectations

It's not about living up to your children's expectations, it's about setting a good example.

I doubt that most kids have expectations beyond being treated well, being loved, food, clothing, shelter, holidays, the latest phone, Wifi etc

You guys are giving me a lot of food for thought. Thank you.

I have to finish some work emails and then I will respond properly.

I suppose one of my personal worries which may or may not apply to others is that I know that harm has already been done but even when we separate properly I don’t know if there is anyway to counter that damage. Obviously I will always be honest and open about things when the time is right but as we know children emulate what they see more than what they are told.

I left my marriage with the goal of meeting someone and having a chance to model a normal healthy relationship to my children

Thatnovembernight, thank you for replying. This is what I try to do too. I probably have to work on my assertiveness with others though for the sake of setting a better example and not letting them think anyone is there solely to look after others needs. Or rather so that they know that everybody’s needs ought to be met, rather than just one-sided exchanges.

And yes, like you, I can’t imagine having another relationship. I haven’t chosen well so far and with so much more at stake now I just wouldn’t risk it.

ILoveMaxiBondi, yes I also worry that they won’t know what the good stuff looks like and that they need to see it to mitigate and put the bad stuff into context but as I said, I don’t think I would risk a relationship myself in the hope of finding that. I don’t fancy the odds.

Thankssomuch and SandyY2K, you both make a good point. Please correct me if I’m wrong and putting words in your mouth but I read Thanks as saying that we can only do the best we can with the resources we have and in the circumstances in which we find ourselves and there is no point in berating ourselves or allowing others to berate us any more than we should ever berate our own children for being the imperfect people that they inevitably will be. Sorry that was so long-winded but I hope you know what I mean! None of us are perfect. But I agree with Sandy that we nevertheless have that responsibility to do our best to set the best example that we can. And make the best choices we can for our children given that they are pretty powerless. I hope that’s a fair interpretation but please forgive me if I am stretching my assumptions.

In terms of expectations I have tended towards the too low but I think as long as everyone is happy, it’s just a matter of taste if you like things more low-key or more exciting. As long as both parties are on the same page and respectful. I agree with you though and I think my own childhood definitely primed me for some of the less good choices I have made and not having high enough expectations of how relationships should look was a big factor.

It's something I've thought hard about. My kids saw some things they shouldn't have when I was married, including when their mum assaulted me and the police had to be involved. And there were years of angry, jealous, and controlling behaviour before that. So, naturally, since divorcing I've thought hard about how to re-balance things, and ensure they're learning the right things about relationships. Here's a few of the things I've tried to do with my two daughters (now 14 and 12):

• TV shows, films, and even music can present opportunities to talk about what good relationships look like. It can be done very easily, without making a big deal of it. We've laughed about that song where the guy sings about being willing to take a bullet for someone but they won't do the same, because he needs to get some self-respect. They think we're having a laugh, but they're also learning about independence and avoiding co-dependency.
• make sure they spend time around relatives / friends who are in happy relationships. It takes a village to raise a child 🙂
• talk. We talk about everything. And I listen, invite their views, and treat those views with respect. I listen to their preferences too - they know that they don't get pressured into doing things they're not comfortable with, and they have autonomy. Their templates for relationships don't just come from seeing romantic relationships. It comes from the expectations that all their important relationships give them about how they should expect to be treated.
• role model how a decent man behaves (this also works for women if you have sons). It's the simple stuff - right down to always opening car doors for them (their friends find this hilarious). Each thing small in isolation, but taken together they are being shown what respect and gentlemanly conduct looks like.
• discussing the difficult stuff too. My eldest is 14 now. Her friends are starting to do the boyfriend/ girlfriend thing, and we talk about it. We've talked about the risks of boys asking her to send them photos, and we've talked about what she can do if she ever feels uncomfortable. We had a good chat about the boy at her school who thinks it's funny to lift girls' skirts, and she knows full well that I will back her to the hilt if she ever finds herself in a position where she needs to administer a swift, hard kick to the nuts.
• respect their own development. There may be a little good-natured teasing occasionally, but there's none of that crap about how I will kill any boy who comes around her. Because I'm teaching the girls to have confidence in their own decisions and their own agency.
• talk to them about your own decisions to be or not to be in a relationship. In a way that is appropriate, naturally - but it's okay for them to learn from your thought processes. They know that I wanted to be alone for a long time after the divorce, to focus on them and to work on me. We had conversations where we talked about how ineffective it is to rely on someone else for your happiness - how that has to come from inside, and then somebody else should just add something. And they felt able to talk to me about how they felt when their mum met and moved someone in with them very, very quickly.

Basically, it's all about talking with them. About anything and everything. Doubtless, we all make mistakes with that stuff, and nobody ever gets it all right. But this is a bit of what I'm doing - it's conscious, and it's deliberate. Seems to be working so far - the things they say suggest they have a well-rounded view of the world.

Slightlymisplacedsingledad that was a pleasure to read. Bravo!

MissSmiley, you’re braver than me and I take my hat off to you!

Slightlymisplacedsingledad, thank you so much for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully. There is so much good, practical advice there. I appreciate it and I would like to come back to you but I have to finish something else off before my brain fogs up! I couldn’t not reply though when you have written such a lovely post about your daughters and a similar scenario. They are very lucky to have at least one parent with such a wise head on their shoulders. It sounds like you have a really strong relationship with them and that will always stand them in good stead.

we nevertheless have that responsibility to do our best to set the best example that we can. And make the best choices we can for our children given that they are pretty powerless

Yes...pretty much. No parent is perfect in this life ... sometimes kids see and hear things they shouldn't.

At least you're not actually still in the relationship as such.

Quite often I see on here, women (occasionally men), who model really poor relationships for their children. I'm not talking about arguments that all couples have...but when you hear an adult talk about how many 'uncles' (mums boyfriends) came in and out of his/her life and how they hoped the ones who were mean to them left quicky and how they were sad when it ended with the nice ones....you see the impact it has on them.

Relationships breakdown for many reasons, but it can have a lasting effect for the children who have no choice but to be in the chaos.

Excellent post Slightly

Thanks @redshoeblueshoe and @ringonright hand.

@Picnicathangingrock - I got to thinking some more about this on the train this morning (your post got me reflecting on how the girls are doing at the moment, and whether there's more I need to be doing). And there's one thing I didn't touch on last night, that's pretty important (and a live issue for me, given some of their mum's behaviour at the moment). That's how you deal with them seeing poor behaviour from the other parent.

All of the divorce advice for supporting kids rightly says that you should avoid criticising the other parent to the kids. Very good advice, for obvious reasons. But I have learned that there are exceptions. My ex is very emotionally volatile (she has mental health issues), and sometimes she takes that out on the kids. They have also seen her behaving very aggressively towards me even after the divorce. Sometimes, the way she treats them makes no sense to them (because it's deeply irrational) and can upset them a lot. I have learned a few techniques for supporting them through that, and teaching them about what is and isn't appropriate.

In these cases, they need to hear that what they've experienced isn't okay and it isn't normal. We talk about what upset them, what might be causing that behaviour, and ways of dealing with it. But I am always careful to criticise the behaviour, not the person. And we talk about how they can handle it without accepting it - helping them to set boundaries.

One of the hardest conversations we ever had to have was after the assault, when my ex and her family spent a lot of time telling the girls how terrible it was that my parents had called the police. I had to walk a very fine line between being clear that violence is never acceptable from anyone, and not alienating them from their mum.

It's that line that is the hardest thing to walk, but which is so important. They have to feel validated and heard, and they need to know when things aren't acceptable, while still recognising the importance of their relationship with the other parent. It's not an easy one, but my advice is to not take never criticising the other parent to heart so strongly that it normalised things that aren't okay.

From the viewpoint of a child:

I didn't see a healthy relationship when I was growing up. My father died when I was young, and my mother remained single. I have trouble with relationships to this day, not just from the above but also from my mother's reaction to it. What would have helped me (and I know these are particular to my circumstances, but it might give you food for thought):

1. Her actually having a relationship. But that was partly because I didn't have a father in my life in any capacity. Also, it would have been good to see a relationship, even if it wasn't entirely great. But also it would have made her less dependent on me, so would have given me freedom to investigate relationships of my own.

2. Not being bitter and negative about relationships. I only heard negative things about my father. My much-older sister's relationships were spoken about negatively. When my mother found out she was having sex before marriage, I got lectures about how this wasn't a good thing.

3. Following on from 2, not deciding that I wouldn't have a relationship, being jealous that I might do so, because she is single. Those sort of thoughts from from when I was young really turned me off the idea.

In your shoes, I'd certainly say don't totally discount having another relationship, and don't talk about the concept of relationships negatively to your children. I suspect it's a fine line to balance, but do your best.

Both my parents were unhappy. Both my parents didn’t like each other, didn’t care for each other. And argued mainly in a passive aggressive way.
I thought it was normal.
When they divorced they were different people. And I felt a bit that we had to endure a pretty grim upbringing, and live with the consequences forever after.

Because of course it’s had a huge impact on all the children. 1 in four is in a happy relationship. And we all old.