Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Can I get out of this holiday without damaging the friendship?

33 replies

GraceMarks · 01/04/2019 04:44

I'm going to be a bit vague here to try to avoid identifying myself, so sorry in advance for the lack of detail.

I'm supposed to be going on holiday this year with two friends who I've known for ages. They're both married with kids and I'm not - and not through choice. I would have liked to have had that for myself, but a lifetime of mental health issues, plus never meeting the right person, meant it just never happened.

The thing is, whenever I go out with these friends as a three, they always end up talking about their children for most of the evening and leaving me out of the conversation. I do my best to be interested and join in, but I can't really contribute when they're talking about weaning techniques, or the least convenient place their babies have needed a nappy change.

I get on well with both of them individually but they've always been much closer to each other than either of them is to me, and this has definitely intensified since their lifestyles have become more similar. It has got to the stage where I don't want to go on this holiday now because I don't want to spend the whole time feeling like a third wheel.

Is it possible to get myself out of it without estranging myself from them? I still want to be their friend but I can't keep being in this situation where I feel like I have nothing to offer.

OP posts:

3luckystars · 01/04/2019 04:48

Could you say you can't afford it?

You do have something to offer, that's why they are still your friends.
I would have no interest in going on holidays with 2 friends, so I would probably just lie and say I couldn't afford it.

HeathRobinson · 01/04/2019 04:49

Can you just invent a busy period at work/someone's off sick etc, if you know the dates, but nothing's been booked?

Original poster

GraceMarks · 01/04/2019 04:59

Either of those is possible. I wish I could actually talk to them about how excluded I feel, but I think they genuinely believe that they're already including me by inviting me out at all!

OP posts:

EmeraldShamrock · 01/04/2019 05:16

I think you should talk to them. They are being rude constantly talking about their DC, I know it happens, or hum loudly when they start. I bet it gets boring listening about DC, do you have any shared interests.
If they're good friends be honest with them.
You might enjoy the trip.

AceOfSpades123 · 01/04/2019 05:32

Is there anybody else that you can invite? I hate 3’s. It’s the worst friend number. I’ve always felt left out in a 3 group. 2 works and 4 works but 3 doesn’t.

AgentJohnson · 01/04/2019 06:25

Be honest, concocting a ‘story’ is a short term fix to a long term problem. I have a child but talk of weaning etc would have bored me to tears and I would not find women who couldn’t hold a conversation without talking about their kids particularly interesting.

FineWordsForAPorcupine · 01/04/2019 06:48

If you lie and exclude yourself you will "damage the friendship" anyway - your friends will think you don't want to hang out with them.

I think honesty is the best way - at the moment, your friends are wrapped up in this new phase of their lives and probably don't notice how they're behaving. If you let the friendship drift they will surface from babydom in a few years, look around for you and think "wow, you find out who your REAL FRIENDS are when you have kids, I guess SOME PEOPLE can't be bothered helping you, etc" and add you to the list of people they've lost touch with. Some (not all) parents just don't realise how ruthlessly they excluded anything that wasn't to do with babies, and are apt to blame their friends for drifting away, when in reality they were being shoved :)

At least if you give your friends the truth, there's a chance to salvage your friendship?

dragoning · 01/04/2019 06:49

I would definitely cancel with an excuse. It doesn't sound like fun. Particularly because the two others have historically been closer to each other than individually to you.

gateway-women.com has tons of support for women who are childless through circumstance.

Ihatehashtags · 01/04/2019 07:08

Make a rule of no kid talk. I can’t stand it when I go away with my friends and all they talk about are their kids. It’s SO BORING!!!! And yes I have three kids and still don’t want to talk about them on a girls weekend away.

ShatnersWigIsActuallyAMammoth · 01/04/2019 08:06

I wish I could actually talk to them about how excluded I feel

I actually don't understand this. If these people are supposed to be your friends - and presumably close friends - why on earth can't you talk to them?

LemonTT · 01/04/2019 08:16

I wouldn’t recommend lying about why you can’t go. It will just be the first of one to avoid their conversation and company. The best approach is honesty but that is easier said than done. Just explain as you have done here but not that you don’t want to go on the holiday. Ask them how things can change and improve. Use the holiday as a way to reboot the friendship. Even if that means you actively change the conversation and organise activities that are not child based. Some of this will be down to you. You all have to build some mutual experiences and interests not based around babies.

Don’t hum during conversations, that is just rude and stupidly passive aggressive.

Needsomebottle · 01/04/2019 08:41

I'm in a friendship group like this but am one of the ones with children. My friend and I with kids fall into this trap sometimes when we three meet up and I'm really conscious of it so try and move conversation back to her or involve her. What helped me notice it initially is that she goes really quiet and doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. Are you politely trying to join in? If you are, and you aren't comfortable telling them how you feel outright I'd say don't add anything when they're talking at length. Obviously they're going to mention their kids as they're a huge part of their lives, but when they get into long conversations about the latest weaning fads etc, just sit silently and I would hope they'd notice and bring it back to a more mutual subject.

It can be hard as (particularly when my children were younger) most of your life is based around them, but i still used to stop and ask lots of questions about what was going on in her life, at work, with friends etc.

Amongstthetallgrass · 01/04/2019 08:44

Talk to them about. And if they are true friends they will understand.

I go away in a three and we have a husband and child talk ban.

Musti · 01/04/2019 09:35

Just start talking about other things?

Original poster

GraceMarks · 01/04/2019 09:36

I think that, because I'm already the one who is less close than the other two, I'm already on thin ice as far as being included goes. They do go out together as a group with their husbands and children in tow when I'm not there - which is fine, as I wouldn't want to tag along on one of those outings - so I suppose I don't feel like I'm in a position to dictate the terms when I am included.

We've all known each other since long before they met their husbands, so we should have lots of other things to talk about. What is upsetting me is that they know about my circumstances and that I'm not happy with the way things have turned out. I don't expect them to never mention their kids, of course I don't. I just think they have lots of opportunities to do the weaning talk and the poonami anecdotes when I'm not there?

OP posts:

Needsomebottle · 01/04/2019 10:54

It is easy for mum's to get carried away talking about those things as, particularly if they are on maternity leave or SAHM's, we often don't have much else to bring to the table as lives are dictated round the children, but that doesn't stop them asking about you, hearing your tales, offering advice on any situations you have going on etc.

I think I would speak to them about the holiday, just be nice about it, say you understand their lives are largely about their children at the moment, that you know they have loads in common there, and feel that for two weeks you might feel a bit on a different page, that you still value their friendships and want to keep meeting up but perhaps a holiday is a bit much and you will bow out so they can have time relaxing and catching up on mum chat, then try and set a date with both of them for when they get back to hear all about it? Are the children going? I presume not? Could you take the angle too that they might want to just enjoy time relaxing without kids but, if you're going away you'd probably want to be out and about more and that you'd understand that they probably spend all day out and about and just want to stop and relax? That way you're showing understanding to their positions so hopefully they will see if from your side too.

Needsomebottle · 01/04/2019 10:55

Sorry - not sure where I got two weeks from!! Don't know how long you're away for?!

Original poster

GraceMarks · 01/04/2019 11:25

Needsomebottle it'll only be a couple of days, and the children aren't going to be there! At one point it was suggested that husbands and babies could be included but I did grow a backbone there and say that I would feel like the odd one out if I was the only childless singleton. It's so difficult. I get on well with both of their husbands and I think they don't register that I might not want to go on a family outing when I myself don't have a family, even when I like all the people involved!

I do need to say something but I am scared of alienating them. I have had long periods in the past when I've been very poor company because of depression and other MH problems, and these friends have stuck with me when others didn't. I know I can be difficult and I'm grateful that they still want to see me at all.

OP posts:

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 01/04/2019 11:35

You don't need to be grateful for other people wanting to be your friend - it should be a two-way street.
I think it sounds like they're the insensitive ones - how would they respond to you saying 'can we limit the child related chat as I do feel slightly left out and it's difficult for me'...?

Dominiom · 01/04/2019 12:59

OP i know exactly how you feel as I'm in exactly the same situation, childless and unmarried and not through choice. It's so tough and I wish our friends would pause and reflect for a moment how difficult it is for us to have to constantly listen to school dramas, feeding problems and the like... However, if we don't suck it up then we find ourselves friendless and isolated and so the cycle of poor mental health and resulting isolation contnues. I do have some advice and this may be considered controversial (!) ,but try and find some male friends in a purely platonic basis. Whether they're father's or not from my experience guys just don't want to talk about kids especially not on social outings or holudays , rightly or wrongly they're there for a fun time and an escape from day to day stuff. I've made some great make blokey mates after years of trying to explain to girl friends my feelings on this subject to no avail. I'm not saying dump them, they're obviously been a great source of support during tough times, but try and expand your circle to include some males too then you can take your pick and hopefully enjoy yourself some non child related chat/ activities. Worked for me!

Original poster

GraceMarks · 01/04/2019 13:51

I don't know, maybe the friendship has run its course. It's been years and their lives have gone in different directions to mine, and the things we used to have in common aren't all there any more.

I am going to step back from involving myself in the holiday planning and see if the idea naturally dies off. They're both constantly busy and it could get forgotten about in amongst everything else. Then I will try to limit contact to seeing them individually rather than as a three. It's a bit cowardly but it doesn't seem worth having a dramatic falling-out, which is what I think would happen if I asked them to limit the child talk.

OP posts:

babysharkah · 01/04/2019 13:56

Difficult as it is, that's the stage in their lives they are out. They will come out the other side eventually.

I think you need to tell them the truth, if they're decent friends it shouldn't mean a falling out.

Now my kids are older I wouldn't countenance going on holiday with friends with smalls, been there done that, don't want to do it again!

NoSquirrels · 01/04/2019 14:04

Do you think though that if you did get away, it might lead to you all feeling a bit closer and having more stuff to talk about? I'm thinking that a city break with loads to see and do will naturally mean more topics of conversation than maybe a weeknight dinner when they've been stuck in all week with babies, if you see what I mean?

Dieu · 01/04/2019 15:20

God, how dull they sound.
Are you sure you're not better off getting rid?!

Suspiciousmind007 · 01/04/2019 15:43

I have DC myself but get very frustrated with how people are so insensitive about these things.

My best friend has had an awful few years of failed IVF. We regularly meet up with two other friends from school who have children and can quite happily spend the whole night talking about them. I spend the whole night steering the conversation in different directions because I know how much it gets to her. Infact, a time recently when I had to give the get together a miss, she left crying and they couldn't think why! Their kids aren't even young.

I have another group of friends who mostly have kids exccept one who sounds a lot like you. One of the friends in particular always brings up the kids in any confersation. Then wonders why our childless friend now avoids group get togethers.

Both of these friends would be happy to join in a chat about the kids if it didn't take over the whole night.

I have spoken to friends about being more sensitive and my BF in particular has tried to be honest with different people about why she finds it very difficult. People are generally mortified and sorry and don't blame her at all. But it doesn't make a huge deal of difference.

There's an initial elephant in the room, then they mention their kids and apologise for it so it's awkward and then they seem to resent the fact they can't talk about what they want to talk about and do it anyway.

If this was me OP, I think I would withdraw from the holiday but tell them why. It doesn't have to result in a row. Just tell them that you find it difficult but you understand that is the stage of life they're at and you are still their friend.

If they're really good friends I think they will insist you go and make real efforts to make you feel included. Although you'll probably still have to listen to kid talk. But if they don't then it means you've escaped from a tedious holiday.

Flip

1 2