Is it possible to be an abusive husband but a good dad?

[SparklySneakers]

I'm struggling to make sense of why it's often argued that an abusive (in this case) alcoholic man is a good dad and a good guy when he emotionally abuses his wife. The kids are privy to this emotional abuse, know about the drinking problem and live in a very unhappy household. I don't understand how the woman can argue that a man like this is a good dad and nice guy and use it as a reason not to leave. Surely they can see the negative effects on the kids? Why do some people think staying together for the kids when the home is toxic is better than divorce?
I've know a few women with abusive husbands or ex husbands and they all say how he's great with the kids and not a bad man. Is it denial? Do they just not realise? Or refuse to acknowledge it? Why are standards so low in so many relationships?

Is it possible to be an abusive husband but a great dad and a nice guy? I don't think so but my views is coloured by my own experience of an abusive marriage.

A good dad doesn’t abuse the mother of his children.
So no. I don’t think an abusive man makes a good father. I always struggle with the idea that a man who has caused harm to someone who brought his children into the world is a decent father. At the point of abusing his children’s mother he has shown right there that he doesn’t love and respect his own children as well as their mother.

No

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

They probably think that as their kids appear to adore him, when in actual fact they don't, they are protecting themselves from him by acting like they do.

My ex was horrible to me but has always been completely devoted to our daughter. On the face of it, i have no reason to worry about his parenting.

However, I feel he is too obsessive with her and although Im sure she doesn't feel it yet, I think he can exert too much control sometimes. I expect a fall out when she hits her teens and starts to have her own mind and will always be on the lookout.

Everybody else though thinks he's an amazing dad, just horrible to women. I seem to be the onlymkne concerned that she will be one in six years.

In answer to your question no it is not. A good dad would not treat the mother of his children like described.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, if they did not set a good example to the then child then more often than not poor relationships are repeated.

The woman you write of is basically still getting what she wants out of this relationship i.e. she is having her own codependent needs met. She is staying for her own reasons, not the kids really. That is what matters to her, their relationship is a destructive dance of codependency. Denial is also a powerful force. Feel most sorry for the children in their relationship; they are the ones who are and will suffer the lifelong consequences of their parents poor choices here.

No.

No, being a good parent is about being a good role model and showing your children how to behave towards together as well as providing a safe and secure environment.

No. Because one of the key parts of being a parent is modelling healthy, equal relationships. An abusive man is not doing this.

No.

I don't believe so, no

Sometimes, I think they mean that he provides for them financially so that makes him a good father.
Really, I think most abusers are very selfish and controlling and can’t see how they can ever be a good father.

No and here’s why.

Someone who is abusive to one person in their life, is an abuser full stop. Thats who they are. Control and abuse is part of who they are. It’s their personality, it’s what they do. It’s like the analogy about watching how someone treats waiting staff. If they can be disrespectful to waiting staff, then they’re disrespectful full stop! The only reason they aren’t being disrespectful to their date across the table is because it’s in their interest to be nice. The same goes for abusive husband’s being “good” fathers. It’s in their interest to appear a good father to all around them. Because that Is the key to holding onto control of the woman. She can’t leave a man who is a good father. Why? Because if everyone knows he is a good father then she doesn’t stand a chance of protecting the children from him in the event of a split, and what happens in a split when the woman he abused is out of his reach? Where does he direct his need to abuse if he can’t get to her? It’s the children. (I’ve seen this played out in real life. I even predicted it and warned the mother what would happen next) An abusive man who abuses his wife and not his children, is just an abusive man who controls his wife through his children. That is not a good father.

No. You can love your children and play with your children and never lay a hand on your children, but if you're hurting their mother and making their home a tense and unsafe place for them, you are failing to be a great Dad.

No, never. If they abuse the mother they likely abuse them, or will. If they font they're modelling horrendous behaviour and have no place anywhere near kids really.

Being a victim of abuse is extremely difficult OP as I'm sure you know having been there, and it's confusing. When it goes on for so long it is anything but black and white for the victim and it's no surprise that all sorts of coping strategies fall into place such as denial. Many women are scared to leave because they fear reprisal, poverty or arescared to leave because they have been mentally made to feel they can't cope without their abuser or are nothing without them. Then theres the misplaced guilt over 'causing' a broken home.

Telling people he's a good dad is denial, of course he isn't, he's scum, but it's hard to accept reality and often requires intense support and therapy to do so, rather than being a glib choice. Being a victim makes you feel pathetic, and persuading others that he's not really that bad and has redeeming features serves to support the denial that they aren't really a victim, and aren't really helpess- I'd have thought. If they admit he's an evil bastard and the rest, they have to confront that really they aren't loved at all by the abuser and and a lot of people just can't cope with doing that.

All very unfortunate for her and her poor children. Good for you for getting out of your situation OP, truly - but as you've said, the reasons others don't are all the things you listed and more. Such a sad issue.

No.

ExH is an abusive alcoholic. I ran when I was pregnant. He has never seen DC. He never will. He has never even tried to see DC but if he did it would be over my dead body.

He could never be a good father.

Thank you for the replies. I was beginning to think I must be wrong as she always says what a good dad he is and how the kids adore him. I think she's slowly realising the truth but goes back and forth a lot. Says she leaving then keeps changing her mind because he's not a bad person. To be fair, I didn't realise how abusive my ex was until he'd left. It's difficult to see clearly when you're in the midst of it all.

No. Children witnessing abuse is abuse and has lifelong effects.

Yes. Just as dictators can be wonderful parents. People are multi dimensional

At a superficial level, yes, they can certainly look the part. When exH is in a good mood, he's fun to be around, he's playful and loving to DD. He loves an audience, and will be father of the year in front of others.

When there's a clash between DD's interests and his own interests, he'll always act in his own interests, whether it's how he spends his time and money or whether he is choosing to say/do something spiteful about me regardless of the impact on her.

Ultimately, abusers are selfish individuals - "I don't care how much x hurts you provided there is some advantage to me". This stops them being truly good parents.

The unfortunate irony is that they can inflict so much misery on their partner and sap their energy, so they're the perky, cheerful one who looks like the better parent at any given moment.

SparklySneakers unfortunately, a lot of these women who are stuck in relationships with abusive men will minimise their behaviour in an attempt to make their situation feel tolerable to them. They might not have the financial means to leave easily, or have any support from family or friends, or their self-esteem has been so eroded that they no longer see how much abuse they're being subjected to. So they tell themselves that, OK, so he behaves like a shit towards me, but at least he's a good dad. If they admitted the truth, they would also have to admit that their children were being harmed by being exposed to a toxic home-life.

You see it all the time on MN, the OP will be full of horrible behaviour, all the replies will tell her to LTB, and then the OP will come back with all the stuff about how he really isn't that bad, and he can be really nice, and he's a good father...

No, no, no, NO.

As the child of an abusive husband but self-proclaimed "wonderful father" - fucking NO.

I do not understand why people try to facilitate the relationship with a child's father at any cost. I would be a much happier and more emotionally healthy person if I'd been kept well away from my father.

The woman is usually the main carer, even if not she's still one of the kids' carers. A carer who is stressed, unhappy, depressed, on edge, etc etc. cannot care (or generally) act in the same way as a carer who is relatively happy and not under stress, distressed etc. They will try their best but inevitably it will leak out; so by default a bad/abusive partner is negatively affecting their kids.

Of course this ignored the far far more likely scenario that they also see his behaviour and suffer directly from it themselves.

*this ignores

I also think we have incredibly low standards for what a 'good' father is.

Yes, they can. My exH was emotionally abusive to the point of making me suicidal but he's the best dad for my DD. Divorce also changed him and made him a better person.