Justified Feeling Like This?

[SuperTed75]

Hi all,
Sorry, but this is going to be a long post. I hope you can all read it and give objective thoughts and advice. So, I’ve never done anything like this before but I need to reach out to someone.

I’ve been with my wife for 12 years now, 9 of those years married. We have two kids under 8. A few months ago I found messages on my wifes phone to a male work colleague of hers. These messages contained rants about her work day (fair enough), jokes about how one creepy guy fancies her (I took that as office joking) but there was also messages of a very sexual nature from my wife and personal messages about our marriage and my health. These weren’t the occasional messages, they were almost every day.

The messages of a sexual nature mostly started from my wife, she talked about her sexual preferences, when we’d last had sex, her past sexual experiences, how good she was with her tongue, about fantasies I may have…. I’m sure you get the picture. There were messages from him asking questions about them and he’d push for info on whether she’d had a threesome and whether she’s been with another woman.

The messages about me were mostly putting me down, things like, oh he’s in a mood again (when actually I wasn’t), she told him I was on antidepressants and called me broken! Yeah, seriously!

Now, hands up, I’m not a talker and find it difficult to talk about me, I never told her I went on antidepressants but I’m a private person and the normal solution of just dealing with my issues myself wasn’t working, so I reached out to my doctor and they put me on the meds. I was never suicidal or anything, just, life got a bit crap. So I know it wasn’t nice to not tell my wife, but I told nobody (except the doc).

My wife had been on her phone a lot and to make a point of this I casually started asking her “who’s that?” and she’d tell me a name but she never mentioned this guy.

When I mentioned that I’d seen some of the messages from this guy she just brushed it off as he’s a friend and it was just banter. I asked her what she thought constituted banter and she handed over her phone for me to read all the messages. As I read more and more out to her, I could see the look on her face of “oh crap” and she went, that’s enough and took the phone back. I said I was uncomfortable with the messages she’s sending and asked her to stop. She said she would.

Roll on a month, guess what, she was still sending those kind of messages, so she lied to me (she didn’t know I knew at this point I’d seen the recent messages). We had a chat, I asked her why she’s spending so much time messaging and did she still message that guy, she said she did. I asked her what the content of the text were and she said just rants about work. I asked her to show me and she flat out refused. I asked her how often they messaged, she said occasionally, I said every day isn’t occasionally. So I felt she lied and was hiding something.

When I walked behind her at one time, she minimised the screen on her phone and she saw I saw, couldn’t help myself, so I maximised the screen and she was messaging him. Again, if there is nothing to hide, why the lies and secrecy?

At this point, I asked her to stop messaging him completely, I was uncomfortable with it and how close she was getting. She was not happy but told me she had. Two days later, she admitted she’d been messaging him again! I said, again, she needs to stop and the next day she said she’s told him that I’d said she couldn’t message him anymore and they’d only speak at work about work. She told me she’d deleted him.

What would you know, she hadn’t deleted him, she’d only deleted the previous messages, she’d kept his number. I know this because when I walked over to see her, her phone was unlocked and there in front of me were messages to him! She said she never though she had to delete his number and yeah, she’d started messaging him again because I was in the wrong to ask her to stop.

Now, I feel lied to, I feel betrayed, I feel hurt and I feel I can’t trust her. I’ve never had an issue with her going out, doing what she wanted when she wanted, never had an issue with her speaking to work colleagues until this.

She says I’m controlling her, but again, I’ve never stopped her doing anything and I’m asking her to stop messaging one person because I’m uncomfortable with it and how close she got. That to me isn’t controlling. For me, it’s now more of an issue for her because she’s not getting her own way for once.

I know she wants me to talk more and I’m trying, I’ve apologised for being closed off but she always seems to put work first and if I ever did want to talk she’d always want to finish off her work first.

So I guess, does it sound like I’m being unreasonable in asking her to stop texting this work colleague?

For me she was either in or on the very border of an emotional affair, at the very minimum she didn’t just cross the line, she went well beyond it.

Am I justified in feeling lied to?
Justified in feeling hurt?
Justified in being mistrustful and asking her to stop messaging him?

She says she understands that she shared too much information but on the other hand, she doesn’t see what she’s done wrong! She feels it’s ok to share information, it’s ok to slag me off to her friends and discuss our marriage problems and my health. I say it’s not.

Any thoughts or questions?

*won't admit it

With what's been said between them (and we don't even know if that's the full extent of what's happened) she should understand why she needs to cut off all contact that's not strictly necessary/outside if work for your sake (and hers in order not to get further into an emotional affair situation, and for her colleague and his partner's relationship for that matter).

He'd insistence on continuing to have unnecessary contact with him is worrying. She can say it's just as a friend but they'ce already crossed the boundaries of true platonic friendship in their discussions and it's not really possible to just wipe that as if it's a hard disk and pretend it didn't happen. It has and could happen again. Therefore she should withdraw from the "friendship" and so should he. She can have plenty of other friends, make and female.

*Her insistence.

I think she (at the very least) enjoys the attention and flirtation too much, had already emotionally invested a bit, and wants you to just stop "bothering" her and let her continue, even though t's not fair to you (or his partner).
She's got quite a neck on her, I have to say - and I'm sorry to say I don't think she respects you; which is why I suggested the 180 approach etc.

Has any one been to marriage counselling? What do they talk about and if the counsellor sees that it's clearly one person at fault or obstructing the path to moving forward, do they say something to that person? I guess i'm hoping they'll see what she's done is completely wrong and they'll tell her that

I went to marriage counselling for exactly what you are going for although my husband was 'chatting' to numerous people - I thought the same as you and that he would be 'told off' for what he had been doing.
In reality what happened is she seemed to side with him and I felt that I was making a big deal out of nothing and felt I just had to accept it and put up with it.

So my husband carried on doing exactly what he had always done and then 7 years ago I made the decision to leave when our daughter was 18, I stopped checking his phone and left him to it.
Last year for some reason I checked his work phone and found messages to a woman, he had been flirting and even asked her on a date (she had not answered and moved the conversation to something else) and that was the final straw, I ended my marriage that night (technically I had another 3 years to go until DD turned 18) and he was completely shocked about it.

He moved out 1 month later and still thought I was just punishing him (in the past I would ignore him for 2 weeks and then it would be swept under the carpet as he would threaten suicide so he thought after a few moths I would give in), when he realised I was serious and our marriage was truly over he overdosed and was sectioned.

Apparently he was never going to leave me for any of these women and I should have just put up with it
I had offered him an open marriage right at the start but he refused, he wanted freedom but not for me to have it.

My husband did this for our whole marriage of 17 years, it was a compulsion and ego boost, all the promises to stop came to nothing.
Don't be like me and waste 17 years of your life.
I'm luckily under 40 still so young enough to start again if I decided to but right now I cant imagine trusting a guy again.

Good luck with everything

She's a total bitch.

I would get a solicitors appt before the counseling to make sure you know where you stand. Hide the children’s passports in a safe place.

I was coming in to say this but another PP got in first.

You are absolutely justified in feeling the way you do. If I were you I'd get legal advice before you have your counselling (or during if not possible to get a solicitors appointment beforehand) so you know how you stand legally/financially.

I recommend you also be very open and honest (including your own failings) in the counselling sessions in case there's any chance (though it currently seems unlikely) that the two of you can get through this and re-engage in your marriage.

@SortingItOut thank you for your reply. This is what I'm afraid of. I'm trying so hard to see if the problem is me but I can't, she's lied and now it feels like she's rubbing my face in it because she's openly texting him now.

We have this morning had some progress. I asked her last night if she'd deleted him and she said not yet. I was so annoyed I went and slept in the spare room. I said this is what it's come to, you've forced your husband out of his bed.

This morning she said she'll delete his number. I said thank you, that means a lot. She followed up by saying she's not happy about it and it won't change anything because it was never the problem! I said I'm not sure how I could have made it any clearer that it was the problem. She said marriages shouldn't be built on ultimatums, I said they can't be built on lies and deception either.

So that's where we're at, she's now p*issed at me for asking her to delete his number

Tell her if she thinks an emotional affair is so trivial in a marriage, she will have plenty of time to put that point forward in your much needed marriage counselling.

There is no honesty or trust in your marriage. It's over, you might want to consider counselling joint or solo to bring the relationship to a close. You'd also be very wise to get legal advice as a matter of urgency.

Tell her that your marriage can’t be built on her sharing your private sexual business with an OM. Perhaps the counselor can clue her in as to why her sharing your sexual fantasies and medical info is a big no-no.

Hi all - i've tried to take some time to get everything clear in my head but i always come back to feeling like sh*t.

So she did delete his number and stopped direct messaging him but what i've found is that they've created a group chat so she continues to message him in that and of course, can see his number via it.

The group chat consists of my wife, this bloke and another female colleague from their work.

Now, normally that wouldn't be a problem but since i made it clear she has to delete his number (and not store it elsewhere etc) and to stop messaging him, i feel she has again lied and been conniving. She doesn't see any issue with it (surprise surprise).

We actually had a very good few days this week. Holding hands, hugs, speaking about our days and feelings, she hasn't been working so much in the evenings and has instead come and sat with me on the couch. But then my head starts thinking about what she's done and i get down again, i was honest why i was down and she appreciated the honesty. now i find out she's still messaging him through a group chat, i had it out with her again. Accused her of lying and just said, if she wants the marriage over, just say so.

Her reactions to my reactions seem legit, like she's genuinely surprised i have an issue with it.

Should i have reacted in a bad way or do i look at the positives that she did delete his number and hasnt been direct messaging him?

God, counselling cant come soon enough.

in her eyes they are just friends and it's my insecurities. She just seems to keep forgetting the lies she's told.
She believes that and forgets the lies because it's convenient to her to do so. She's pretending not to understand so that she can continue doing whatever she fancies. She might even be pretending to herself, finding reasons why she is not being a bitch: no-one wants to be a bitch.

The only time I got my exh to open up even slightly was one time that I used humour and (presumably) what I was saying didn't make him feel like a total bastard. He briefly gave an honest answer - before reverting back to his claims of innocence. In the end, though, he wanted to have the affair, so he did. You can't make them do what you want.

It's typical for cheaters to tell other people their version of the story, that they have internalised, in which they are poor victims and have been forced to look elsewhere. People don't know any better than to believe them. Again, you have to learn to let go and give in to the fact that you can't control what people say or think. You can only control your actions.

just said, if she wants the marriage over, just say so
This didn't work for me, either. What they would ideally want is to have their cake and eat it. But you're not going to agree to that. So the only way to continue the fun of the affair and the stability of the marriage is by keeping up the pretence that they have no idea what you are on about. It buys them time until they decide whether it is worth breaking up the marriage.

thank you @ravenmum

I guess i'm just trying to get to the first counselling session so i can get everything out and i'm hoping she'll do the same. I'll then have a clearer picture of what to do. I have started looking up solicitors, which i guess tells me something. It's just the heart break for the kids, it's killing me knowing how upset they'll be if we split.

She admits we've both got a lot of changing to do, she's said she wants the marriage to work and that hopes that we can get through this.

It's the mixed signals, she wants to get through this but then, in my eyes, she lies again.

I wouldn't count on the counselling being any less frustrating; she might well just switch tactics and find a load of other things to "explain" why she desperately needed to get attention from another man, and to turn the focus away from her. Be prepared to be confronted with tiny things that you said or did years ago, presented in a strangely unfamiliar new light.

Unfortunately, once someone has started this kind of thing, for the children it is not a choice between a happy, cosy home and a divorce. It's a choice between divorce and a tense, unhappy home.

yep, i'm expecting the counselling to be extremely difficult, frustrating, upsetting and hurtful.

I'm prepared for any little thing she tries to bring up, i'm almost certain i'll be able to counter it all.

I'm prepared for her to drop a bombshell, whether that's she finally admits she had an EA or that she doesn't want to be in the marriage anymore. At least i'll hear the truth..... hopefully.

I've held my hands up to everything i've done wrong or could have done better. I'm trying to change and she has made those small changes, just not the big one of cutting all communication with him outside of work.

I'm at the point where i dont want her talking to him at work, she has driven me to that thought, but if she wont stop messaging, what chance of her leaving her job. Does anyone think thats now a reasonable request from me?

I think she wants out but wants you to look like the bad guy and end it, every woman with a brain cell would know this is so very not ok

Does anyone think thats now a reasonable request from me?
Tbh, it's something she should come up with of her own accord, if she wants to make things better between you. Anyone can understand why you'd suggest it, but from you it could just come across as controlling. If this was a stupid moment of temptation that she regrets, she should be trying to come up with ways to get out of the situation herself.

OP,

yep, i'm expecting the counselling to be extremely difficult, frustrating, upsetting and hurtful.

I'm prepared for any little thing she tries to bring up, i'm almost certain i'll be able to counter it all.

You cannot enter joint counselling with this kind of adversarial attitude. Any reputable counsellor would refuse any further sessions.

I have had marriage counselling, although not around infidelity, around different parenting styles. Didn't work. I think it rarely does.

She's been mugging you off for months. Barefaced lying to you for months.

Get yourself to a solicitor. This woman is not your wife anymore, not your friend. You need to protect yourself.

So sorry OP, she's having an emotional affair and you deserve better.

Thanks all for the replies.

I know 100% she's had an emotional affair. I even think she knows she's had one but is too proud, stubborn to admit it. I guess i just need to her her confirm it and the full reasons why otherwise i wont get closure.

She's had separate counselling through her work because of our troubles. She said it's helped her see things from a different perspective. It's that and the fact she says she wants and hopes the marriage survives that is giving me mixed signals and messing my head up.

I know i havent helped myself by not being tougher sooner but she now knows i'm not going to tolerate her BS anymore, she shouldnt take my love for her and determination to make the marriage work as weakness, i wont be played and mugged off anymore.

er, life sucks sometimes.

@SuperTed75

but if she wont stop messaging, what chance of her leaving her job. Does anyone think thats now a reasonable request from me?
Sadly that is likely to make you like the bad guy forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do. And even if she did leave doesn't mean she'd stop contact (there are so many different ways of instant communications) - and they could still meet in person during the working day and you'd never know.

She's had separate counselling through her work because of our troubles.
Have you had you own 1:1 counselling sessions? That would be good for your own emotional health, particularly if further on in the process you do end up separating.

she hasn't been working so much in the evening

I'm sorry to say this, but reading things like this throughout in posts makes me wonder if it's beyond an emotional affair.

*in your posts

I'm sorry to say this, but reading things like this throughout in posts makes me wonder if it's beyond an emotional affair.

Hi - when i say not working so much in the evening, i say at home. She's a teacher and sits in front of her laptop until late at night planning lessons etc.

She doesnt stay late at the office or anything. Sorry if that wasnt clear.

She has now deleted him completely, number and messages. I think it finally sunk in how much she was hurting me and the marriage. We'll see if that lasts.

I myself havent had any 1 to 1 counselling but it's been offered as part of the marriage counselling and i'll definitely be taking them up on it.