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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Justified Feeling Like This?

76 replies

SuperTed75 · 16/03/2019 10:02

Hi all,
Sorry, but this is going to be a long post. I hope you can all read it and give objective thoughts and advice. So, I’ve never done anything like this before but I need to reach out to someone.

I’ve been with my wife for 12 years now, 9 of those years married. We have two kids under 8. A few months ago I found messages on my wifes phone to a male work colleague of hers. These messages contained rants about her work day (fair enough), jokes about how one creepy guy fancies her (I took that as office joking) but there was also messages of a very sexual nature from my wife and personal messages about our marriage and my health. These weren’t the occasional messages, they were almost every day.

The messages of a sexual nature mostly started from my wife, she talked about her sexual preferences, when we’d last had sex, her past sexual experiences, how good she was with her tongue, about fantasies I may have…. I’m sure you get the picture. There were messages from him asking questions about them and he’d push for info on whether she’d had a threesome and whether she’s been with another woman.

The messages about me were mostly putting me down, things like, oh he’s in a mood again (when actually I wasn’t), she told him I was on antidepressants and called me broken! Yeah, seriously!

Now, hands up, I’m not a talker and find it difficult to talk about me, I never told her I went on antidepressants but I’m a private person and the normal solution of just dealing with my issues myself wasn’t working, so I reached out to my doctor and they put me on the meds. I was never suicidal or anything, just, life got a bit crap. So I know it wasn’t nice to not tell my wife, but I told nobody (except the doc).

My wife had been on her phone a lot and to make a point of this I casually started asking her “who’s that?” and she’d tell me a name but she never mentioned this guy.

When I mentioned that I’d seen some of the messages from this guy she just brushed it off as he’s a friend and it was just banter. I asked her what she thought constituted banter and she handed over her phone for me to read all the messages. As I read more and more out to her, I could see the look on her face of “oh crap” and she went, that’s enough and took the phone back. I said I was uncomfortable with the messages she’s sending and asked her to stop. She said she would.

Roll on a month, guess what, she was still sending those kind of messages, so she lied to me (she didn’t know I knew at this point I’d seen the recent messages). We had a chat, I asked her why she’s spending so much time messaging and did she still message that guy, she said she did. I asked her what the content of the text were and she said just rants about work. I asked her to show me and she flat out refused. I asked her how often they messaged, she said occasionally, I said every day isn’t occasionally. So I felt she lied and was hiding something.

When I walked behind her at one time, she minimised the screen on her phone and she saw I saw, couldn’t help myself, so I maximised the screen and she was messaging him. Again, if there is nothing to hide, why the lies and secrecy?

At this point, I asked her to stop messaging him completely, I was uncomfortable with it and how close she was getting. She was not happy but told me she had. Two days later, she admitted she’d been messaging him again! I said, again, she needs to stop and the next day she said she’s told him that I’d said she couldn’t message him anymore and they’d only speak at work about work. She told me she’d deleted him.

What would you know, she hadn’t deleted him, she’d only deleted the previous messages, she’d kept his number. I know this because when I walked over to see her, her phone was unlocked and there in front of me were messages to him! She said she never though she had to delete his number and yeah, she’d started messaging him again because I was in the wrong to ask her to stop.

Now, I feel lied to, I feel betrayed, I feel hurt and I feel I can’t trust her. I’ve never had an issue with her going out, doing what she wanted when she wanted, never had an issue with her speaking to work colleagues until this.

She says I’m controlling her, but again, I’ve never stopped her doing anything and I’m asking her to stop messaging one person because I’m uncomfortable with it and how close she got. That to me isn’t controlling. For me, it’s now more of an issue for her because she’s not getting her own way for once.

I know she wants me to talk more and I’m trying, I’ve apologised for being closed off but she always seems to put work first and if I ever did want to talk she’d always want to finish off her work first.

So I guess, does it sound like I’m being unreasonable in asking her to stop texting this work colleague?

For me she was either in or on the very border of an emotional affair, at the very minimum she didn’t just cross the line, she went well beyond it.

Am I justified in feeling lied to?
Justified in feeling hurt?
Justified in being mistrustful and asking her to stop messaging him?

She says she understands that she shared too much information but on the other hand, she doesn’t see what she’s done wrong! She feels it’s ok to share information, it’s ok to slag me off to her friends and discuss our marriage problems and my health. I say it’s not.

Any thoughts or questions?

OP posts:
Moralitym1n1 · 16/03/2019 23:21

Have no idea how 'friends' got into the first post- weird autocorrect.

SuperTed75 · 16/03/2019 23:24

Perhaps she hasn't been sleeping around but she's being distinctly disingenuous to get friends if she says doesn't understand what he problem is - and presumably she hasn't been truthful to them about the content of the messages between her and her 'colleague' or I think they'd understand what the problem was.

Exactly, almost certain they dont know the full story which means they're giving her crap advice.

So she’s also telling her friends your business. She may not see what the problem is but you do and that should be enough. You are not confused. Her behaviour is unacceptable.

I know, why cant she see this? I guess i was hoping for some resonses on here telling me they can understand what it is she's done but no-one can apart from her and her friends.

OP posts:
Moralitym1n1 · 16/03/2019 23:25

I think she's gas lighting you by telling you "youre wrong, there's nothing wrong with my behaviour" when there clearly is.

And she's playing the "he's so jealous and unreasonable. He accuses me if sleeping around .." card with her friends to make you sound bad and cover her back.

Moralitym1n1 · 16/03/2019 23:27

Did she get a visa for this country by marrying you?

Sorry but I feel I have to ask.

SuperTed75 · 16/03/2019 23:28

yeah, she's a smart woman, guess i was hoping she was just being naive.

She knows where i stand now, delete him, be honest and admit whats she's done or we dont move forward.

Does anyone think it's a good idea to reach out to one of her friends to tell them my side of the story?

OP posts:
SuperTed75 · 16/03/2019 23:29

*Did she get a visa for this country by marrying you?

Sorry but I feel I have to ask.*

That's ok, you can ask. No - she's entitled to be here, was before we met and now she has indefinite leave to remain.

OP posts:
Moralitym1n1 · 16/03/2019 23:35

Does anyone think it's a good idea to reach out to one of her friends to tell them my side of the story?

Not really, they're her friends, they'll probably just be uncomfortable, not want to be drawn into it, she may just lie about what you've said, it would just be messy.

Moralitym1n1 · 16/03/2019 23:37

No - she's entitled to be here, was before we met and now she has indefinite leave to remain.

Good, when you said she'd from abroad I was worried you'd been taken by a visa hunter who was acting the way visa hunters often act when they're secure in their citizenship/leave to remain.

Lozzerbmc · 16/03/2019 23:45

Wont do any good involving her friends. She is not respecting your feelings at all by not agreeing to not contact this man.

Moralitym1n1 · 16/03/2019 23:48

She knows where i stand now, delete him, be honest and admit whats she's done or we dont move forward.

That is extremely reasonable.

In fact I would call it very generous in the circumstances.

People tend to moan about their partners to friends and sometimes confide too much. It's not that that bothers me; it's the sexual and seriously inappropriate nature of her conversations with her & 'colleague' and also her slagging you off to him. The broken comment is .. nasty.

Both of those are in marriage ending territory for many people.

Moralitym1n1 · 16/03/2019 23:52

You might benefit from the 180 approach.

You night also benefit from establishing what would happen and how you'd handle things if you were to divorce her, at least it will give you confidence in dealing with this, instead of being in the back foot and defaulting to 'i don't want a divorce, and have to save this" with her in a position ofpower.

Halo84 · 17/03/2019 07:03

You know, the reason masturbation is considered sinful is not because of the pleasure aspect-it’s because it separates us from relationships-the physical,emotional, and spiritual aspects thereof.

What your wife is doing, assuming there is no physical relationship, is an emotional masturbation. She is turning to someone else to meet emotional needs that should be met within her marriage. Of course at some point, it’s likely this man will also want a physical relationship.

I think you do need counselling. If she is unwilling to go, go on your own to get a handle on your own issues, and decide what you want.

Preggosaurus9 · 17/03/2019 07:28

You have both checked out of the marriage emotionally and mentally. You started antidepressants and didn't tell her, she's having an emotional affair. I'm sure there's a massive back story! Both of you have a lot of ground to make up if the marriage to survive.

FookMeFookYou · 17/03/2019 07:51

You asked her to stop and she hasn't. She values messaging this guy over your feelings. Ppl make mistakes in relationships and you've identified where you can improve, but to my mind nothing ever justifies cheating - emotional or sexual. I'd ask her one last time to stop and also add that you will report the guy to HR if he doesn't back off. Don't let her treat you this way - however she has justified this to herself it's not acceptable and she either agrees to stop and work things out with you - 100% effort on both sides - or she admits she's checked out and wants to separate. Life is too short to be miserable and unhappy. Take control of the situation it won't sort itself

CanuckBC · 17/03/2019 08:14

I would take a step back. She obviously thinks she has done nothing wrong and at this point, nothing you say or do will change her mind. I would wait until you get into marriage counseling and address it there. Have you spoken to the counsellor? You can semi-preinterview them, well, here you can! Make sure they are a good fit and understand the initial issue bringin you there. Be upfront about your issues as well ie not telling her you went on medication, not being as talkative as she would like etc. Explain in detail the current status Re the emotional affair, the sexual exchanges etc. They won’t take sides but they should help direct why that is not a good thing to do and why you are upset!!!

My ex-DH pulled all sorts of shit with porn, looking for partners on websites etc They were deal breakers for me. If he pulled the same shit yours is, no way in hell would I put up with it.

I would get a solicitors appt before the counseling to make sure you know where you stand. Hide the children’s passports in a safe place.

Moralitym1n1 · 17/03/2019 08:36

*You know, the reason masturbation is considered sinful is not because of the pleasure aspect-it’s because it separates us from relationships-the physical,emotional, and spiritual aspects thereof.

What your wife is doing, assuming there is no physical relationship, is an emotional masturbation.*

I find this such a strange post - masturbation sinful? Not in any liberal culture.
Emotional masturbation? ThG would be meeting all your own emotional needs and excluding your partner. What she's doing is an emotional affair not "emotional masturbation".

Halo84 · 17/03/2019 08:56

It’s an analogy. And I was referring to a religious perspective. People assume religious nutters are opposed to pleasure. But if you study religions, you will find some common themes.

An emotional affair is basically the same thing. It’s a stimulation of emotion if ine party by another. So, six of one, half dozen of another n

buckeejit · 17/03/2019 09:03

Yanbu but you are cleArly improving with talking about yourself so hopefully you'll make progress at counselling. I've been when I wasn't good at talking about my feelings & it was great for me

Moralitym1n1 · 17/03/2019 09:17

@Halo84

I presumed it was religious when you used the word sinful.

I also realised it was an attemoted analogy - but it's an analogy that doesnt work (if referring to the basic meaning of masturbation i.e. as a solo, not couple activity). Masturbation and an emotional affair are not remotely similar in that regard.

Moralitym1n1 · 17/03/2019 09:18

Stimulation of emotion by another party would be an emotional affair, not emotional masturbation.

Moralitym1n1 · 17/03/2019 09:22

Anyway, off this rather weird tangent, OP a poster has said you also checked out of the marriage because you started antidepressants without telling her. I don't agree; thats not checking out of a marriage and not in the same universe ax what she's done however it does seem sad and unhealthy that you couldn't discuss it with her.

SuperTed75 · 17/03/2019 09:44

I'm going to ask her one last time today to cut all contact with him (obviously I can't stop her seeing him at work at the minute). If she says no, I don't know what to do. I can't stop talking to her because she'll throw that back in my face and go down the whole "you don't talk to me". But, it's making me miserable and for me, there would be nothing more to talk about. The counseling session is 2 weeks away.
I know what I've done wrong in the past (lack of talking) and although she gave me reasons to not talk as much (always putting work first) it didn't justify my lack of effort. Feels like I've owned up to my shortcomings and trying to change but she's resisting to do her part.
I know I should have told her about the meds but I've always just tried to deal with my issues myself. I told noone, and I understand why that would hurt her and I've apologised.

OP posts:
ElspethFlashman · 17/03/2019 10:21

When you talk to her, try not to be robotic and emotionless. She needs to see your pain. She's compatimentalising it at the moment and it may be because she thinks it's just your pride talking or your ego, or being "controlling".

She needs to see that it's breaking your heart!

SuperTed75 · 17/03/2019 11:13

Thank you for the advice. I don't know how I can make it anymore clear how much she is hurting me and damaging the chance for us to rebuild. She again refused to delete him, she's still texting him but says in a friend way, like how was your day kinda thing. I said again she's being disrespectful and I'm close to not bothering with the counseling and going straight to a solicitor.

She just didn't want me to do that but if she won't delete him, I can't move forward

OP posts:
Moralitym1n1 · 17/03/2019 11:25

I don't think anyone needs to be convinced that it's not "ego" or "being controlling" or "pride" to find it unacceptable that your partner is having sexual conversations with someone, alongside discussing your problems in a rather derogatory way.

A simple - how would you feel if this situation wax reversed - is more than enough. Shouldn't even be necessary. She knows it's inappropriate, she just don't admit it (perhaps even to herself).

It all seems to be "I have to make her see", " will the counsellor make her see", " will her friends make her see (if they know the full story)" ... Should anyone really have to teach a grown adult that what op has described is wrong?

Either they know it bug won't admit, or they're something not right with them (in which case you have bigger problems).

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