Did he sexually assault me after my miscarriage?

[Sue1989]

Bit of a long one. Please bear with me.

Been married for almost seven years and we have two young children.
Recently I suffered a miscarriage without knowing I was even pregnant. We weren't TTC but had been discussing it.
Thought I was doing okay, but every now and then have really struggled. Both husband and I communicate really well about how we felt about it all and he's been supportive.
Last week I had my first period since the miscarriage and it left me feeling really run down physically and emotionally.
In bed one night during and husband starts feeling me up. I was obviously in no way in the mood and just laid still, pretending to be asleep, hoping he'd get the message. For 15+ minutes he continued to touch me inappropriately. I felt so horrified that tears filled my eyes and I froze. Had no idea what to do. Eventually he stopped and asked if I was awake and if I wanted him to stop. I said that I wish he would and burst into tears. I spent the night on the sofa and we talked about it the next day. He was very upset and sorry about it all. Since then he barely comes near me. He doesn't even cuddle me in bed anymore and sometimes doesn't even kiss me.
My head is messed up from all this. I badly need a little break just to think things over in peace but the kids are my main priority and husband works all the time or is out with friends.
Am I overreacting? Was it assault? Do I stay? Do I leave? I don't want him to be labelled something he isn't over one mistake, but he really made me feel disrespected and devalued. Help.

Why didn't you ask him to stop much sooner? He was insensitive not to be able to work out you were feeling fragile and not up for it, but if he wasn't getting the message why not just say something?

Hugs, I am sorry you had a miscarriage and feel this way.
Is this something he would do? I wonder if he your husband was touching and hoping you would wake up? I ask because at somepoint he asked if you were awake and whether you wanted him to stop?

I ask because my husband like to make love in the morning and I love to sleep in. So he starts to kiss me/ feels me up etc and when i wake if i'm up for it we make love. If I'm too sleepy he snoozes. so this is normal for me, question is whether its normal for you.

You are confused by the incident, and reactions to it, as is he. You should use that asset you appear to built - communication - to talk through this.

I honestly didn't feel like I could. I froze, mostly in shock that he had the nerve to be trying it on with me at that time, but moreso the longer he continued to carry on without taking the hint. I always make it very clear when I do/do not want sex.

I think that couples usually initiate sex by touching each other. To me, it reads that he attempted to do that until he realised that you weren't going to respond. Once you said you wanted him to stop, he stopped.

I'm not sure why you didn't ask him to stop sooner really. Did you have reason to think he wouldn't?

You say that he was upset the next day and now won't come near you. Do you think he feels that his actions were wrong?

And I'm sorry for your loss, and you are bound to be emotionally fragile, so it's not a good time to be making any major life decisions.

ps. also if you need to see more of him then you need to tell him to spend more time at home with you and the kids and less so at work and with friends.

Best wishes and hugs.

Just say no. How can he know if you don't say, yes he should ask but you are not on a first date, he could probably tell you were awake.
He needs to know that if you are asleep it's no go but honestly don't think it's assault. Did you freeze, have you got an issue that makes it difficult to tell him no. If so share, he can be more sensitive. Sounds like he is afraid of being a brute now and overreacting by withholding. Unles you have other problems you need to just talk it though and build up trust. Unless there's gonna be a whole dripfeed about porn and prostitution.

Op, l am so sorry you are having a really tough time, but in this instance taking into consideration how supportive your DH usually is, i think you should have simply said, 'no l am not feeling like it'.

Why did you not speak out?

Unless he has form for not stopping when you say 'no' l really don't think this was a sexual assault. He is not a mind reader.It sounds like understandably you are feeling very low and emotional and wanting him to understand but not actually spelling it out.

Could you discuss this with him and ask him to actually ask you next time before he touches you sexually?

He is your DH , talk freely to him, say you want kisses and cuddles, but sex is different right now, and work out a way to let him know what you do/don't want.....even the kindest husbands cannot know how you are feeling all the time, so tell him and then hopefully you can rebuild your sex life.

Hugs to you, I cant imagine how you feel at the moment.

Without sounding nasty or judgemental - but why did you pretend to be asleep?
Why did you let him continue for 15 minutes?
He did (eventually) ask you if you wanted him to stop, so I think he just had a moment of thinking with his bits rather than his brain. Like most men.

He stopped when asked no? The only reason it went on for as long as it did is because you didn't actually object.

It sounds lovely that you can both tall through abiut things and be open with each other. It sounds like you really support each other

It's clear to me that you didn't speak out for the same reason some rape victims don't. As you say , you froze. You couldn't find the words to tell him to stop, the fact that he was trying put you in a place where you were so shocked and threatened you weren't able to say no.

Have you had any counselling about your miscarriage? It might help to talk to someone.

When you can, if you can, explain to him how you felt then and feel now. See if it makes any difference. See if he listens.

It's possible he didn't know how things were with you. But that doesn't excuse him from carrying on when you didn't respond positively.

What you are feeling right now might not be your final feeling on the matter, so I won't say LTB. Try talking again. Then think about what you want to do next.

As for definitions, assault or not, what does that matter? It made you feel bad. If posters are telling you that you are over-reacting, they're making judgements based on their experience, not yours.

I'm with other posters in being a bit baffled as to why you didn't just say you weren't in the mood and ask him to stop? Why did you lie there for so long pretending to be asleep?

Fucking hell! The amount of victim blaming on here!

She clearly said that she "froze" in the OP

Fight, flight or freeze is a perfectly normal response!

The amount of people saying "why didn't you say no?" "Why didn't you stop him?" Etc is appalling!

Hope you're ok OP and I hope that he is taking this seriously. I understand that what freaked you out was that he didn't seem to read your response and was consequently insensitive. Has he ever made you feel like this before?

Freezing up, paralysis, seems to happen sometimes in cases of unwanted sexual advances, often when the person is half asleep. This is why you see the push for verbal consent, even in LTRs. Body language could communicate enthusiatic consent too, but there's less room for error with verbal consent. Was this sexual assault? Not IMO though, just a very unfortunate misunderstanding. I'm sure you can recover from this, and I'm sure he'll know better than to repeat the incident.

I always make it very clear when I do/do not want

But you didn't this time? Was that why he was confused? Although 15 minutes is a very very long time to continue without reciprocation or refusal, I find that length of time really really odd!

Sex/physical contact can be gentle, slow, tender and comforting when you're sad. Is it possible that he wanted/thought that it could be that sort of moment and is now horrified that it's been interpreted as a deliberate sexual assault and you're thinking of leaving him for it? It would make sense, if that's the case, that he's keeping out of your way now - after all, wouldn't a cuddle in bed or kiss be seen as him 'trying it on'?

Personally, I find being asked outright a bit of a turn off and would far rather be gently touched - communication without words can bridge a gap where speaking can't get the emotions across.

"The amount of people saying "why didn't you say no?" "Why didn't you stop him?" Etc is appalling! "

I think it is actually quite unusual for someone in a normal, loving relationship to feel unable to say no actually. Op describes him as communicative and supportive, with no hint at abuse in their seven year marriage.

I'm not saying it wasn't upsetting for op, but I think it's entirely normal for a man to approach his wife in this way, and entirely normal for her to say no thanks.

As op says she usually makes it absolutely clear when she's not interested, I think it's plausible that he simply misread the situation. I bet there aren't many women who, when their dh makes it clear he's in the mood, thinks 'I'll just lie here until he realises I'm not enjoying it.'

Eventually of course he got the message and now, after being told, even implicitly, that he sexually assaulted her, he has backed right off.

I don't think op is wrong to feel how she does, but I don't think he's necessarily wrong either. To me, it is misunderstanding and misjudging a situation. As your relationship was good until this op, I would suggest some honest conversation in order to resolve things.

I honestly didn't feel like I could ask him

I think you need to ask yourself why?

He sounds extremely insensitive. Is he usually like this about sex? It sounds like you're afraid of him or his reaction if you say no

Im with the others im afraid. I dont know of anyone in a relationship that asks for verbal consent before sex?! its initiated by touching and if person says no its left at that...which is what happened. 🤷‍♀️

Based on the little bit of history you’ve given here and your description of your husband I would say it sounds like a misunderstanding.

It sounds like you were most upset that he wanted sex when you felt so upset still about your loss. That it was the timing rather than how he went about it?
That was why you froze?

To him the fact you were low may make sex more on the table as he may equate it with making you more close?

What was his reaction the next day?
I agree it sounds like he persisted way too long when it must have been clear you either werent in the mood or were asleep- both of which were reason for him to realised and stop after seconds not 15 minutes. That does need discussing.

Only you know your DH well enough to know what this means really.

It's clear to me that you didn't speak out for the same reason some rape victims don't. As you say , you froze.

But why? Why would someone 'freeze' in a normal relationship where you initiate sex by touch? Likening the OP to a rape victim here is an absolute joke. She did t say anything and is not catastrophising what was probably her DH looking for some comfort (yeah o know there are other ways) because he was upset too. OP should have said something. I can't understand why anyone would see her DH as a rapist and her as a victim?

• IS catastrophising

I always make it very clear when I do/do not want sex

So this is the thing for me. Every other time in your long and happy relationship you've been able to say yes/no and I don't think it's unreasonable that he assumed you'd be able to this time. He didn't realise how bad you were feeling. I don't think it's sexual assault.

If he is not being very supportive about the miscarriage generally, or he was but now expects you to be "fine" then that is what I would focus on.

He was very upset and sorry about it all. Since then he barely comes near me. He doesn't even cuddle me in bed anymore and sometimes doesn't even kiss me

This is the same reaction I got by the way and it is really difficult to deal with so I hope you can get past it.

I think the ex in question felt more guilty because I was pushing him off, crying, begging to stop etc but he can't remember much of it as some drugs were involved (him not me). Also there was full sex which I think there wasn't here. Anyway enormous dramatics about it the next week or so, so I just agreed not to mention it again as the fallout was so ridiculous. He was so upset it made me feel guilty.

I think you sound a lot more sensible than me and won't fall into that trap! But be warned as I thought I was quite sensible too...