Objective views on ex and contact with teenage children

[BlindTipsy]

I would be so grateful if anyone could offer me any objective viewpoints of my situation as I am finding it very hard to take the anger and frustration out of it and judge what is the best way forward. It’s a bit of an essay - sorry.

Quick history - was with STBxh for 20 years, two children Ds1 (15) and Ds2 (13). Marriage had got a bit boring for the last year or so but in general all seemed ok, no arguing, still doing lots together and as far as I and the children were aware everything was fine. 7 months ago STBxh announced, completely out of the blue, that there was someone else (mum of one of Ds2’s classmates, also married) and off he went. Less than a month later they were living together in a large rented house along with her 2 children.

Initially, he clearly thought the children would be fine with the whole thing. He expressed his wish to have them every other weekend and one night midweek and has rented a house big enough for them to stay. However it has been a hard time for our children and this hasn’t been helped by him trying to rush them into a new blended family arrangement.

So at the moment he picks them up at 10am on Saturday EOW (although Ds1 often messages to ask if he can come later as he enjoys lying in at the weekend), takes them out places or to his mums until late evening. He then has to drop DS1 home as he refuses to go to the new house at all, and takes Ds2 for an overnight stay. Then he picks Ds1 up at some point again on Sunday, repeat of Saturday and then drops them both back after tea.

That’s it. He occasionally asks them to go out for tea with him another evening but always short notice and not regularly. He makes no effort to be involved in their everyday lives. I think he occasionally Skype texts them a short message but no phone calls or anything. They regularly see him from a distance picking OW’s kids up from school but that’s it.
This is due to be his weekend. He has just messaged me to say he can’t take the boys to his mums house this weekend so will need to drop Ds1 home early on Saturday.

They are not babies but given that Ds1 is often unsettled and upset after contact I am not happy for him to be dropped back to an empty house. So my plans for the one night I have child free a fortnight will have to be cancelled.

I guess this has just brought the whole frustration up. I want to do what is best to support the children and they don’t want to hang around pointlessly in cafes or at ex-Mil’s house for hours. But they need to spend time with their dad. But I also completely understand Ds1 not wanting to visit the new house which must feel like the domain of OW and her kids.

And selfishly I want some time where I am not wholly responsible for them - they don’t need looking after like younger children but I have had to shoulder the responsibility of dealing with the very difficult emotions they have had. I want to start rebuilding my own life and moving on and some evenings out with friends where I am not on tenterhooks as to when I am going to need to get home for Ds1 would be a good start!

So part of me is tempted to say ‘I’ve made plans and am not happy for Ds1 to be dropped back to and empty house so you will have to sort something else out’. But then it’s the kids who will be stuck hanging around with him, bored and with nowhere to go. I know I will end up cancelling my own plans but I am just so cross that I am still having to pick up his slack after everything. It’s his fault he hasn’t provided a safe, neutral place to spend time with his children. And it should be his priority to be working on their damaged relationship.

I know you can't force someone to spend time with their children but he is constantly asking if I have any ideas that could help or if Ds1 has talked about what he's upset about (like it's some great mystery!)

Am I being unreasonable feeling so frustrated with him and the whole situation? And how can we move towards a more workable arrangement?

I am afraid that you need to do the mummy thing and put the kids first - i know it's not fair but they come first. I would suggest that you actually go out on night when you do have the kids - are they sensible enough to leave alone for a while? Make your plans on your time with the kids then whatever happens with your ex they are not affected.
As to sorting out his relationship with the kids, that's his problem - don't hinder it but he needs to want to work for it - it won't happen unless he wants to make the effort

YADNBU for feeling pissed off!

Have you told DS1 it's okay if he doesn't want to have contact with his dad? The lad seems to have worked out that his dad is a useless bell-end...

This is going to sound harsh but here goes anyway. The problem is the kids can't have it both ways. They can't refuse to visit him at his home (and I understand why at first they didn't want to) but then can't complain when the alternate (ie. Mum's house) isn't available.

As regards this weekend your children are indeed plenty old enough to be at home alone so I think in that regard you are looking for an excuse to be fed up with him. They could easily go out for the day and be dropped back. I suppose the fact that you say it is for him to find a safe, neutral space means you wouldn't entertain as a one off him visiting them at their home (ie. your home) as you have other plans. I would understand why but is an actual option.

I get the impression that you are understandably still hacked off that the STBExH has left for an ow after 20 years and your life has been ripped apart. However I also get the impression that rather than supporting your kids in attempting to move into a new phase of how their relationship with their Dad is going to be (including a transition into visiting him at HIS home) you are enjoying the drama of making this aspect difficult for him and perhaps to the detriment of the kids.

I did say it was going to be harsh but sometimes it is easier to see these things from the outside. I also had a friend who went through the same. Once she had gotten over him leaving her and that the reality was she should do everything to facilitate a proper relationship for her kids/dad it all calmed down and got easier to let them go.

Ime you need to back away and let the dc accept their df is a bell end .
Home alone is fine, not going to be add ons in his new life is fine -who can blame them?
When they go nc with df - as my ds's did - it will be on his head. And they will move on without his drama a lot quicker than you think - again ime.

Let him be home alone or stay with his dad. If you're continually rescuing then they'll keep taking advantage. My 16 year old spends most of his time with his friends or girlfriend,regardless of whose weekend it is and my other teenager too.

supporting your kids in attempting to move into a new phase of how their relationship with their Dad is going to be (including a transition into visiting him at HIS home)

The usual advice on here is that single parents shouldn't be introducing new partners to their children after such a short time frame. When you add in to that the fact that the DC have also had their life ripped apart I think the stbxh is totally unreasonable in not ensuring that HE spends quality time with his own children. The OP is, quite sensibly, being led by her DC about when they are ready to meet the DH's new partner. Blended families are hard enough at the best of times, but with the new step-mum figure was instrumental in you DF leaving your family home it is totally understandable if the DC aren't ready to play happy families with her and her kids just yet.

It is the responsibility of the stbxh to show his DC that he still loves them and wants to see them. The OP can help this by not making it difficult for them to go, but she absolutely shouldn't be pushing DC into something they aren't ready for.

I would still go out as planned, your son is 15 and can be left alone for a few hours. Most teenagers I know would love to come home to an empty house!

They regularly see him from a distance picking OW’s kids up from school but that’s it. This bit is absolutely heartbreaking to me. He doesn't bother properly with his own kids but they can see him picking up someone else's kids.

I think he isn't doing his part to spend real, quality time with his own children and work around them until they feel settled. He obviously doesn't see that your DC aren't ready and haven't moved on as quickly as he quite clearly has.

I think at 15 your son could definitely be left alone for a while, and you need to tell your ex in no uncertain terms that he fucked off and left his family, so he needs to be the one to make amendments and really work for it, or soon his own kids will want nothing to do with him. This is going to sound awful, but I pray to god he doesn't have another child with this new woman.

As a child I was in similar situation to your kids. I was miserable and forced to go, but In the end my mum just said I could go if I wanted and not go if I didn't want. I was so much happier and more settled and it was up to my dad to make the effort to keep a relationship with me, rather than just collecting me and plonking me in front of a TV at his new gfs house. - he didn't bother, but in that sense I was free of all the messing around.

You'll just have to find other babysitters maybe.

They regularly see him from a distance picking OW’s kids up from school but that’s it.

I agree with @pushingdaisies. This is so bloody sad and I feel for you kids. Putting your social life/child free night aside, I think the main issue (as other sensible PPs have said) that your ex should be working on his relationship with his children. The fact he has moved on so quickly to another woman is bad enough, but to have set up with another family and then to expect your kids to just suck it up and blend in...nah..If I was your DS1, I would be refusing to play happy families with the OW and her kids too!

Your Ex has a lot of making up to do with DS1 especially, so I would be talking to your Ex about the reality of how this has affected your DS1. I'd bring up the example of him picking up the other children and being seen by his own...how does he think that is ok? DS1 will be feeling rejected and second place to these 'new' children in your Ex's life.

I also agree that your DS1 is old enough to be left at home if it is your night to go out. My DD is the same age as your eldest and on the odd occasion when she hasn't been at her dad's for the night, she has been home whilst I go out if it is a local event. I'm always contactable by phone and check in with her...and I don't go out very late either.

Ignore the comments by people who think you are a making a drama out of this, you are not.

Does DS1 want to see him at all? at that age he certainly doesnt have to..I think thats what would drive me....
He should also be ok to be at home on his own....if you want to go out...but if he's generally unsettled due to the situation I can see why you might not want that...

It is not your job to facilitate their relationship ....... he's the one thats fucked that....

I think you need to have clear boundaries. He has chosen this life and if you have an agreement that he sees the children eow then he needs to stick to it or make other arrangements that do not include you. You are likely making sacrifices left right and Center and if you feel like he isn't you will end up resentful and the resulting conflict will be bad for the kids.

Suggest mediation to complete a parenting plan. If you can't afford that there are examples on line- the Scottish government website has a really detailed downloadable one. This will give you the basic structure of contact etc but also looks at the fine print.... what if you are sick?....what if they are sick?... who arranges doctors appointments etc. The benefit of doing this exercise with your ex is not only so that you are both clear on boundaries and day to day plans but it serves as a reminder of the parental responsibilities that you still BOTH have. Very often Dads leave and their parenting ends on a Sunday night when kids go back to mum. A parenting plan reminds him that being a parent involves MUCH more and it can not all be left to you.

As for the children. It sound like they are struggling a bit and I would be tempted to seek help. Encourage them to talk about how they are feeling without you bad mouthing their Dad. If you do decide to go to mediation some offer Child Inclusive Mediation where children and young people are invited in separately to talk about their feelings and what has been happening and with their permission it can be fed back to the parents. It can really help young people who don't feel like they can talk directly to a parent for whatever reason.

Good luck. And look after yourself too.... You won't be any good to them otherwise.

Thank you all - really appreciate you taking time to read and reply.

@OKBobble Please don't worry about sounding harsh. I am so aware that all my emotions are caught up in the whole thing which is why I wanted to get objective views and I agree that I am probably looking to get annoyed with ex whatever he does. I don't think that I am making it difficult for him and the kids to make the transition though. I actually feel that things would be much better all round if they were able to feel comfortable going to his house and getting into a regular weekend pattern. I am very, very clear that the kids are the most important consideration in all of this and think it really important that they have as good a relationship as possible with their dad and have done as much as I am able to support this. I am just getting frustrated that he doesn't seem to want to make much of an effort.

Ds1 is of course usually ok at home on his own. The only reason I am reluctant for him to come home to an empty house at the weekend is because sometimes he gets upset about the whole thing when he gets home after a day with his dad - it's still quite raw and he tends to forget about it between visits and then it comes crashing down after contact . And I can't help thinking it might feel a bit crap to be dropped home alone so that ex can take Ds2 back to his- like he is missing out on time with his dad because he isn't comfortable in the new house yet. Also, although Ds1 is happy to be left on his own if I want to go out other evenings, Ds2 is only just 13, a bit young for his age and has been quite anxious since the split which means he doesn't like me leaving him alone, even with Ds1 there, particularly after dark so it is tricky to get out.

But I think I have to accept that I am probably being a bIt overprotective of Ds1 - he can always ring me if he's not happy. Will take some deep breaths, pick my battles and move on.

@Blindtipsy i think we cross posted so i how you saw my post above yours.

Also just to say. Often children and teenagers take on our sadness. This may absolutely NOT be the case but your sons may be thinking of you when they reject Dads new house. Therefore, it might actually be good for your older son to see that you are going out and having fun and not sitting at home feeling sad. If he thinks you're ok...maybe he'll be more ok too.

Have you considered that counselling may be needed? Maybe the school could help?

You can't blame him for not wanting to go, it must be awful seeing his father suddenly all over another woman. Plus with children at the same school all the children must be talking about it! He will have no escape from the crap that his father has dumped over him.

His father is a selfish little shit. They know this and you know this. They just need to try and reconcile that with the lifelong image they have had of him that he has ripped away. Then they can decide if they want the relationship.

I agree that you should still go out. I would definitely tell your ex that he needs to arrange his life better, if he can't even commit properly to the short amount of time he sees his dc. Don't change your plans because he's an arsehole, and because he's probably more afraid of letting down his OW and her children.

Both your sons will see the situation for what it is, and it's devastating for them. I too had a sharp intake of breath when I read the bit about him picking up the OW's children from school. You can't sugar coat this, and I think it's damaging to try and do so for your dc. Call it for what it is. It's painful for them whatever, even worse if adults try and make what he's done acceptable/understandable etc.

All you have to do is make the dc physically available for your ex to see them. I wouldn't engage in any discussion with him about your son's feelings. I suspect he's just hoping you'll say it's hormones, or school work, or a girlfriend issue. Tell him it's because his dad is a lying scumbag who's ripped his dc's world apart, and is now playing happy families in full view with his OW.

Your dc will make up their minds about him, you can't change that. Just be the amazingly adult parent you clearly are, move on with your life, and compensate for their shit of a dad by being their rock and safe place.

As for the pp who said you were making this into a drama, that's utter crap. You don't have to be the one to try and blend his new "family" into yours, in what world would that actually be seen as your responsibility?

You've highlighted there that DS1 will be dropped at an empty house and wave goodbye to his brother and his dad seemingly going off to play happy families. If I was DS1 I would wall inside that empty house and sob my heart out. So I wouldn't let him come back to an empty house, 15 or 50 in this situation. Yes it's crap. But your DS may need you so much more than we realise. Not easy. For what it's worth most people figure out pretty early in adulthood how much their parents were there for them. Your silent support and presence is probably worth more to him that you or he will ever know x

It's like you lot have just verbalised the conflicting ideas that go through my head! . I think 'come on, Ds1 is 15 - of course he's going to fine on his own for a bit' then 2 mins later I remember how he sobbed in my arms after a particularly tricky visit a few weeks ago and I swing back the other way!

Reading your replies though has helped me take a step back, I'm going to stop worrying about what ex is up to and how he is letting the kids down - this is not my issue or responsibility and it isn't something I have any real influence over. What is my responsibility is how I chose to deal with the shit he throws this way. I am not going to be relaxed knowing Ds1 has been dropped home to an empty house so am going to change plans and make sure I am home for him.

I have thought about counselling but Ds1 is adamant he doesn't want to talk about it with anyone. He is generally ok and happy - I have always been the main caregiver and not much has actually changed in his day to day life. It's just contact weekends that throw a spanner in the works. Ds2 talks to the pastoral support worker at school a lot. We started running together a few months ago and this does seem to be helping with his anxiety, although slowly.

I think I just find it astounding he doesn't want to spend more time with them. They are fantastic kids - funny, well behaved and a pleasure to spend time with (I know I may be slightly biased!). His loss - just wish it wasn't their loss too.

Thanks again everyone - really helpful advice

In my opinion it's really up to the kids what relationship they have with their father - it's important for you not to obstruct it (eg if they wanted 50/60 it's their choice) but equally if they don't want to go then it's their call / teenagers want to hang out with friends or play on their console rather than hours in cafes or their grandparents (even though they love them!)

They regularly see him from a distance picking OW’s kids up from school but that’s it.

YADNBU - what sort of prick picks up someone else's children while igoring his own at the same school gate!

I can't believe what your H is doing here - picking up.ow kids at his own kids school.is beyond insensitive. OW clearly has a compassion by pass too and is showing she does not care at all about your DC - or hers for that matter cos as previous posters have said, the kids will all be talking about it and asking them.

My DC are older but still took it bad when ex left me for his OW. His efforts to see them.were very centred on him and what he wanted to do (pub football on tv) and DD saw through it. I found myself apologising for him and trying to persuade her to go, explain he's just not very thoughtful but still loves her etc. A good friend pointed put that I was teaching her that she should accept shit under the guise of love and that her feelings mattered less than his. She also said my DD (17 at the time) could chose not to have a relationship with him if she wanted. Trouble is I know she does and she's hurting . I've taken a step back and just make sure she knows I'm there if she needs me. It's bloody hard though.

To be fair it's the younger kid they see him picking up from the primary school up the road so they aren't actually coming out the same gate. Ds2 has just commented casually 'saw dad walking back up the road from school with x today' so it probably sounds worse than it is. Although it seems to be quite frequent and they might be more upset than they let on particularly as he rarely did school run when they were at primary.

Anyway - again it's not anything I can change so I just have to ignore and hope the kids are as unbothered as they seem. Not an option to move or change schools really so just have to make the best of it.

Op- glad this has helped your DC sound great and you sound like a great mum....there is nothing you can do about your Ex he sounds a twat ... you may not have them at home long now so make the most if it!

Cant your ex stay with your dc at your house and leave once you're home from your night out? That way your dc can see their dad and you don't have to worry about them being alone or somewhere where theyd be uncomfortable.

Well why not cancel ds1 going at all and then he won't feel bad when he's left alone in the evening? That way you won't need to change your plans and your ex 'pays' for it. There has got to be a consequence for your ex or he will keep doing it