Objective views on ex and contact with teenage children

[BlindTipsy]

I would be so grateful if anyone could offer me any objective viewpoints of my situation as I am finding it very hard to take the anger and frustration out of it and judge what is the best way forward. It’s a bit of an essay - sorry.

Quick history - was with STBxh for 20 years, two children Ds1 (15) and Ds2 (13). Marriage had got a bit boring for the last year or so but in general all seemed ok, no arguing, still doing lots together and as far as I and the children were aware everything was fine. 7 months ago STBxh announced, completely out of the blue, that there was someone else (mum of one of Ds2’s classmates, also married) and off he went. Less than a month later they were living together in a large rented house along with her 2 children.

Initially, he clearly thought the children would be fine with the whole thing. He expressed his wish to have them every other weekend and one night midweek and has rented a house big enough for them to stay. However it has been a hard time for our children and this hasn’t been helped by him trying to rush them into a new blended family arrangement.

So at the moment he picks them up at 10am on Saturday EOW (although Ds1 often messages to ask if he can come later as he enjoys lying in at the weekend), takes them out places or to his mums until late evening. He then has to drop DS1 home as he refuses to go to the new house at all, and takes Ds2 for an overnight stay. Then he picks Ds1 up at some point again on Sunday, repeat of Saturday and then drops them both back after tea.

That’s it. He occasionally asks them to go out for tea with him another evening but always short notice and not regularly. He makes no effort to be involved in their everyday lives. I think he occasionally Skype texts them a short message but no phone calls or anything. They regularly see him from a distance picking OW’s kids up from school but that’s it.
This is due to be his weekend. He has just messaged me to say he can’t take the boys to his mums house this weekend so will need to drop Ds1 home early on Saturday.

They are not babies but given that Ds1 is often unsettled and upset after contact I am not happy for him to be dropped back to an empty house. So my plans for the one night I have child free a fortnight will have to be cancelled.

I guess this has just brought the whole frustration up. I want to do what is best to support the children and they don’t want to hang around pointlessly in cafes or at ex-Mil’s house for hours. But they need to spend time with their dad. But I also completely understand Ds1 not wanting to visit the new house which must feel like the domain of OW and her kids.

And selfishly I want some time where I am not wholly responsible for them - they don’t need looking after like younger children but I have had to shoulder the responsibility of dealing with the very difficult emotions they have had. I want to start rebuilding my own life and moving on and some evenings out with friends where I am not on tenterhooks as to when I am going to need to get home for Ds1 would be a good start!

So part of me is tempted to say ‘I’ve made plans and am not happy for Ds1 to be dropped back to and empty house so you will have to sort something else out’. But then it’s the kids who will be stuck hanging around with him, bored and with nowhere to go. I know I will end up cancelling my own plans but I am just so cross that I am still having to pick up his slack after everything. It’s his fault he hasn’t provided a safe, neutral place to spend time with his children. And it should be his priority to be working on their damaged relationship.

I know you can't force someone to spend time with their children but he is constantly asking if I have any ideas that could help or if Ds1 has talked about what he's upset about (like it's some great mystery!)

Am I being unreasonable feeling so frustrated with him and the whole situation? And how can we move towards a more workable arrangement?

Ask DS if he wants to go. If he doesn't then he can stay at home. Give him a tenner to get a dominoes and play games. If he does, then he can come home and do the same. Or if it isn't too late,suggest he has a friend over.

Maybe @drogon1 - I really don't like the thought of him in my house, especially without me there. Having looked back at the time he was having an affair, I've realised what kind of person he really is and now even the thought of him makes me feel a bit sick. My home feels like my safe space and I don't really want him in it. But you're right - it might be something I have to consider for the kids sake.

@Musti Thank you for being cross on my behalf . I want the children to spend time with him though and it's not really up to me to say yay or nay as to whether they go or not. I actually think that it would be best for them to have a good relationship with him and so want to encourage them to see him more really, not less.

OP - I wouldn't let your ex into your home. He's proven to be a liar and untrustworthy. He sounds the type to nip off to the loo and have a quick rifle through any post he sees lying around. He'd probably look for any information he could to suss out your financial situation, personal life etc.

I also think, given his new set up, that it would be really jarring for your sons to have dad back in a familiar environment, but where everything has changed, and where he's going to leave again for his new home. I think the emotions of it all would be overwhelming for them.

Don't let your ex have his contact at your home! Your boundaries sound right and fair. But I do agree that being home for DS is a good idea - sorry you're the one picking up the pieces of a shit situation. You sound like a great mum fwiw.

Nothing more to add except to say OP you seem like an ace mum and it’s no surprise to me your dc are a pleasure to be around. I hope things settle down at some point and you can have the down time you so deserve and I really know how that feels, never switching off from the dc and supporting with their emotional turmoil, it’s really hard.

Go you. That is all

Horrible situation but you're handling it superbly. They're bloody lucky boys.

I agree with the poster with the older children who said that her friend pointed out that DC didn't have to accept rubbish behaviour from their father if they don't want to. It's not your DS's job to please his dad - if he opts not to see him and OW, at 15 it's up to him. You can't and needn't micromanage this.

Ditch your night out (I dont think you'd relax anyway tbh) but I honestly wouldn't cancel plans in future. As a pp said, the boys need to see you happily getting on with your life, their feeling sorry for you could be counterproductive, they could end up trying to "protect" you. Also, they need to know that Mum is a person with a life, not at their beck and call all the time (not that DS1 sounds like that at all, I'm just talking about precedents here).

You can get email counselling if that's something he might be interested in? Not sure if there's a certain age for that, but he wouldn't have to talk to anyone and could mull it all over in his own time.

I feel so sad for them, the way your ex has gone about this is shocking and trying to think of a reason other than himself for the problems is ridiculous.

Do the DC know you were going out on Saturday? If not I would cancel this once and they needn’t know why.

PP’s friend is right - a relationship with him doesn’t need to be forced. I wouldn’t discourage one but if he doesn’t want to go to OW’s house then I would just accept that and let him move on.

At fifteen he’s old enough to make his own decisions. My dc is sixteen and stopped going to his dad’s house around three years ago even though we’d already been separated for three years by then. But his new gf spent time slagging me off, plus the money my ex gives me (which to be fair he has always done without question but she resents every penny), then she stopped his family coming over, and ex would e.g. cancel contact evenings if her child requested it. The last straw was that they had a child together.

I spent evenings persuading DC to go there, encouraging them to have a relationship with their father, and tbh it took more out of me than it did out of them in the end so I just let them stay.

Now they do see their dad occasionally but always outside the home and they have no relationship with their younger sibling, which is sad but was unavoidable.

As long as you’re not putting down their father the children will make up their own minds in time and will take the good with the bad. And as they grow up their relationships with him will change anyway.

My DS once told me that he didn’t like OW because she was vile about me. I said that whatever she said about me couldn’t hurt me, that he was absolutely entitled to hold whatever opinion of her that he wanted, but that he didn’t owe me that loyalty as I really could care less what she thinks of me - her opinion is not one which I need to hold in any regard. I did say that it of course would be better if we could all get on, but given this is apparently not possible she just has to do what she feels she has to do. He still can’t stand her, but he has reached that conclusion based on the person she is not based on what others have told him to think.

Apologies, eXH’s gf isn’t an OW. Just wanted to clarify that as feelings towards her are based on who she is iyswim.

Ds1 is old enough to realise what a shit his father is being. Just let him stay at home with a take away.
Ds2 is probably also old enough to know but still at an age to be manipulated/ bought. Does he even like his classmate?

Hi OP, I am so impressed with you. You've only been separated a short while and you're already jumping to the realisation that took me several years - your ex isn't willing or able to offer a relationship that works for your kids. That leaves you with all the responsibility, no personal space and loads of emotional fallout to deal with- it's hard. I was slow to understand my ex's uselessness and feel really guilty now about trying to persuade my girls to visit him when their instinct was to say no...they were reacting to the fact that everything was 100% on his terms. I think some men can just shake off the whole fatherhood thing virtually overnight when a marriage ends - they may say they care but if they really did the kids would feel it and respond. As you say, their loss - but somehow tough for the kids. Both mine have had their hearts broken and are still trying to recover nearly 6 years on

Arrgh - had come on to reply to all your lovely messages and thank you for all the good advice but somehow everything has gone wrong tonight,

It's ex's weekend with our children. It's also OW's son's birthday on Sunday (the one who is in Ds2's year)

Ds1 comes down earlier and says very specifically 'is it ok with you if I stay home Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon?' I said of course it was fine and did that mean he was staying with me all day Sunday or had he made some plans with his dad for the evening? He was a bit evasive so I left it.

Then Ds2:says ' It's x's birthday on Sunday (x is OW ds1) and I'm going to his bowling party. '

So I go up to speak to Ds1 to check what is going on. Turns out ex has asked him if he wants to go bowling for x's birthday on Sunday, Funnily enough 15 year old Ds1:doesn't want to go bowling with a 13 year old and his mates, his dad and his OW. So he is staying home. But has been pressured into going for a birthday dinner with them all Sunday evening. He cried and said 'I don't know if I want to go' which made me cry and then feel awful about, I don't want him seeing me cry and then worrying,

Have sent a text saying please remember this weekend is your kids time with you, He is ignoring my text.

I hate my ex right now. And also hate that he has made me someone who hates someone,

He is an intelligent, professional man. How does he think this is ok?

That is not ok ......at all, your poor DS1 - all you can say to him is he doesnt have to go if he doesnt want to and he doesnt have to feel guilty about it....its hard being the eldest and going through this
(i was although not quite teh same circumstances...my relationship with my dad ended at 16 but my younger brother continued.....)

what would have helped me in retrospect is some help with being assertive - I either got upset or angry ....as I couldnt say no without felling guilty - to either my mum or my dad...
(although your relationship wth your son sounds a lot better than mine with my mum as I couldn't really talk to her)

for this weekend maybe you msg ex from ds1 and just say he doesnt want to come to his girlfriends child meal - but is happy to see him

going on ideally DS could do that himself - but appreciate that takes time......but at the moment you may have to do it for him...

Oh OP, I'm so sad for you and your DC It's a horrible situation born of the selfishness of your ex. Sadly people like him do not put their dc first or consider the enormous impact their selfish actions have on their dc.

I'm only a couple of years into a similar situation but due to how we split and exh actions in run up to that my ds1 (15) won't see his dad at all. This makes it both harder and easier iyswim. I don't have to deal with ds1 upset after contact because he decided himself he didn't want it. But I do have to deal with exh blaming that all on me, impact of it all on ds2 (10), and never having child free time.

But, because ds1 made that decision himself he is generally happy and I can leave him be if I need to be somewhere else for an evening. I'd prefer him to see his dad but I can't and won't force it as his dad has long history of manipulating us all for his own selfish ends.

Like pp said upthread, I also feel I need to model how we make fair decisions and choices not based on notions of 'duty' and obligation but on good behaviour and kindness. My ds2 is happy to see his dad but already he is seeing that his dad tries to manipulate him to doing what he wants rather than working with his ds on what they both want to do. Ds2 may handle this completely differently to ds1 so I'm keeping an eye on it but not influencing it in any way.

In a way my ds1 has bypassed all the internal conflict your ds1 clearly feels about the behaviour of his dad, by choosing not to see him and concentrating on himself, gcse's etc. This maybe something your ds1 chooses to do at some stage, even if just temporarily, to give himself some respite from the kick in the teeth his dad's prioritising has given him.

I don't have any advice, just wanted to reply to your last post as I could feel your anguish and frustration at this weekend's plans.

Fwiw your ex is a breathtakingly selfish and stupid knob. And you are not and clearly keeping your dc's wellbeing at the forefront of all you do. Keep strong and be there for your dc. It's crap on your personal life right now but you and dc will all get through this

It's absolutely ok for your son to see you cry. Then to see you deal with your sadness. You are modelling positive ways if dealing with emotions. Explain to him why you cried - not because of you and your relationship with your ex but because you love him (your son) and hate to see him sad and conflicted. Then talk about how you're going to deal with it. Go for a walk together, climb a hill, put on some music he likes and dance about the house. You sound like an awesome mum.

If he doesn't want to go then he doesn't go. I cannot blame him, I don't think many adults would go to a birthday dinner for their father's mistresses child. Especially after such a short amount of time.

I know you're having to focus on DS1 right now, but just watch out for DS2. He is going along with it all but that doesn't mean it's not extremely hard on him.

Oh OP no wonder you were upset, and your poor ds. I agree that it's good to let him see your tears, and also to explain that they are for him and his sadness, not for you. It models empathy and understanding, something sadly lacking in his father.

If your ds1 decides not to go I would definitely message your ex. Say that his responsibility is to see his own children with their needs in mind, not his needs and that of his new partner and her children. You can acknowledge that a birthday only comes around once a year, but why didn't he take this into account when he knew it was his weekend with his children? Why not see them, alone, at another time ?

Ask him why he thinks his sons want to spend time with this woman and her family. You can acknowledge that your ds2 is, but point out that as your ex makes little time to see them on his own, he is virtually forcing the situation. Again, he's not thinking about their needs.

From experience I can say do not play nice. Don't worry about his feelings when you text him, be completely honest, let him see the damage he's doing to your sons. He thinks he has the power - leaving you all and now making you fit in with his new life, whatever the cost to his sons. Fuck that. You take the power - what have you got to lose? Bloody rage at him, don't protect him from the consequences of his choice. Let's face it, he probably doesn't speak about you in a nice way now, give him something to chew on !

Op
You are doing a fantastic job given the situation you have been put in.
Your ex sounds like a total arse wipe.
I have no advice as whatever you do will either involve pain for you ds1 or ds2.
Your ex does not deserve any of you.
Once again another selfish bastard strikes again.

Just want to thank you all so much. You can't imagine how much all your support and kind words and good advice have helped today. Sometimes, like when ex messages and tries to sound all casual and amicable , I start thinking that it's me. That I should be getting over it now and that I am making a big fuss about the kids and that actually what he did and how he has behaved since is common place and a bit shit but not that big a deal, so having others validate my opinion of it all is very comforting.

I'm just a bit embarrassed that I ever married him and thought he was a decent person!

Ds1 has gone today but is coming home soon. And has decided he definitely doesn't want to go to the birthday meal tomorrow so will just go out with ex and ds2 for a few hours in the day. The bowling party has apparently been cancelled - no idea what's going on there but at least that's one less thing for Ds1 to have to make a decision on.

One silver lining to ex being so crap is that once they are both home tomorrow we will be unlikely to have to deal with him again for another two weeks so get a bit of breathing space,

Thank you all again

Glad to see your update OP.

Just to add, I don't think anybody on the outside would ever think you were being unreasonable in your view of your ex. Of course he tries to normalise it, even if he doesn't feel guilty he wants you to play ball and make his life easier. I think that ship's sailed !