Trying so hard to mend things but keep falling into the same arguments

[Namestheyareachangin]

I feel a total failure tonight. My DP and me are struggling to get along ever since our daughter was born. First child challenges mostly but it has highlighted some really fundamental differences in our whole approach and worldview. We've also had a lot of stress in the past two years (new baby, moved house twice, new jobs for us both, bereavement etc).

I have considered ending it (i daresay he has too) but they say you shouldn't make any major decisions in the baby years as everything is magnified by no sleep etc. I also want another baby and want my children to have the same dad (even if it ends up not working out longer term). He is not so keen on a second child - he says quite rightly and sensibly that it has pushed us apart, things are only just starting to get easier with DD and another baby would set us right back and we'll end up even further apart emotionally. I agree with everything he says logically, but whereas for me its worth the risk, for him I don't think it is.

SO I've been trying really hard not to quarrel with him - things he does and ways he thinks that drive me up the wall I've been trying to ignore, when he gets flustered over something i don't think is a big deal i've been trying to support him and validate his feelings instead of tell him why he shouldn't be bothered etc. I am trying to increase our intimacy too, but because I am always so tired, DD still wakes up several times a night anddue to low libido at the moment I need to get myself in the mood quite far in advance, I tend to 'book it in' and this probably seems a bit by numbers and lacking in spontaneity to him.

I tell myself that I am doing this for us, and to get us to a place where he feels confident we can manage another baby; but I do feel a lot of resentment sometimes that I am putting all the effort into the emotional side of our relationship - he is completely inarticulate about emotions, and I think it's likely he has alexithymia or possibly a personality disorder as feelings are like a foreign language to him. I try to 'read his love language' and see the things he does for the household and organising our lives as the expression of his affection for me and DD. But he doesn't seem to make any attempt to see the ways I try to express affection (verbally) as valid, doesn't give me anything back in that way - I feel like I am doing all the benefit of the doubt, compromise, see things his way, appreciate him stuff and he doesn't even try to meet me half way, just sits back being dissatisfied with our relationship but doing nothing and suggesting nothing that might make it better.

And tonight all this resentment just boiled over and we ended up having a stupid row about nothing very much. Looking back I can see how from his POV he did nothing wrong, and was in fact trying to be useful; but from my POV it all comes back to the same pattern of wanting to control everything practical in both his and my life, whilst being completely absent emotionally and apathetic about our relationship.

Is it normal to feel like your partner just doesn't like you very much? Not in a malicious, trying to do anything sinister way - just the sense you are a necessary evil he is working around, rather than someone he specifically likes or actively wants to be around?

And is it babyish not to be able to just see beyond that, appreciate the fact that my whole life is very well organised thanks to him, and just work for the best outcome in the parameters of what we do have, and stop wanting that emotional connection and feeling of being valuable to him which is clearly never going to come?

Your not compatible and the more you try the more it becomes evident. Don’t bring another child into this car crash of a relationship. It’s time to take a step back and really think about the future because right now it sounds like what’s motivating you to stay tricking him —being artificially nice— him into having another child.

I could relate to some of your above mentioned experience, as the birth of our DD was the beginning of the end of my marriage. ( Best thing/ decision made as he was full of shit).

Without hijacking your thread, just sit down and have a serious think about this in the long term, can it be fixed, how happy are you ( both of you), are you sure you want to bring another child into this world knowing the magnitude of the resentment you feel about their dad?

Why don't both of you give each other some space, maybe a week or two at family's if they live closer? Then see how you feel afterwards. You probably have been in each other's space to the point of suffocation.

If every conversation ends up in a row, well, that's telling you something OP.

So what's your top love languages OP?

The deal is he puts in as much effort as you do.

Otherwise you will be seething with resentment and that's no way to live.

I agree with mumsyj perhaps some space from each other will help give you some perspective.
If you are walking on eggshells and just not compatible it's not worth the stress of living like that so he will want another child. It's ok if you want to leave and start over.

Definitely don't have another baby unless you're prepared to be a single mum of 2

Stop trying so hard.

Thing is, your efforts aren't really genuine, they're based on wanting to get to a point where he'll agree to another child. So you're squashing down your own needs and resentful. And it's not working anyway.

If you knew for certain that he'd never agree to another child, would you stay with him?

Definitely don't have another baby unless you're prepared to be a single mum of 2

I'd actually be perfectly happy to be a single mum of two at the moment! But I don't want to be a single mum of one (I want another baby) and I don't want my daughter to have to deal with another man in her life (stepfather) or for my children to have different dads, or for a child of mine not to know who their dad is (all the other options that allow me to have another child).

I am perfectly well aware we don't just always get what we want in this life, and that what I want isn't necessarily best for everyone. If I didn't realise that, I would have just put it to him as an ultimatum that I want another baby now or I'm leaving and I'd be pregnant already (completely disastrously for the whole family in the long term). That's why I'm trying to find a way around these issues.

At some point I may have to accept that to get the most important thing I want (a peaceful, stable, safe upbringing for my daughter) I need to forgo a second child, accept that this relationship is over, and be a single mother of one. At the moment, if nothing else changes, that will be the best option for her.

But it is a long long way from what I wanted for her - only child of a broken home. I imagine when I die, her having to do everything by herself, no siblings, dad not involved. I worry about the pressure on her of being my only when I wanted more, I hope I would manage it but I worry that I might end up too intense and overinvolved in her life as all the love in me I feel I have for many children will all be focused on her, with no siblings or partner to dilute it (we don't have any other close family relationships).

I can't say having her was a mistake, I could never feel or think that and if nothing else this 'car crash' of a relationship was meant to be because without it she wouldn't exist. But the way things are working out it's looking harder and harder to give her the life I want to give her. Things as they are aren't good enough for her. And every move I make in any direction for the good also has a potential negative effect. I feel quite stuck and don't know what's best or worst!

Thing is, your efforts aren't really genuine, they're based on wanting to get to a point where he'll agree to another child.

This does hit home a bit. I genuinely do want him to be happy, I have worked my bollocks off for more than 10 years trying to achieve that end, and before I had my daughter that was the absolute main focus of my life (far from healthy I'm well aware, I am damaged goods due to a bad upbringing and find it hard to have healthy equal relationships).

But having my daughter has put him to the back burner in terms of my effort and care. If that had been the case for him as well - if he and me came second and third in his life after her - I think I would have loved him for it; but he still matters most in the world to him, not her. He is disgruntled that having her means I have less freedom, less time for him, less focus on him. And that has made me dislike him, fundamentally. I am trying to work around that central problem, and it is getting easier now she's a toddler and he enjoys her much more (they are often very sweet together and nothing makes me happier to see), but how he behaved when she was a newborn and a quite difficult small baby will always stay with me.

I imagine when I die, her having to do everything by herself, no siblings, dad not involved

This is a very specific fear OP. Have you recently lost a parent? (Or fear you shortly will do?) Even if she is an only child, that won't stop her having great relationships with friends and hopefully a partner.

You mentioned a troubled childhood - have you had therapy regarding this? That might help you decide which direction is right for you. Also check out the Stately Homes thread on this board.

If you knew for certain that he'd never agree to another child, would you stay with him

Still trying to work that one out. If I can't have another child with him, I can't have another child, fundamentally, as I don't want my daughter to have a step family, I don't want my children to have different fathers, I don't want my second child not to know who their father is or have no relationship with them. So I'm quite invested in him wanting another as I desperately want another child.

But if he never would, it becomes a question of whether me being with him is of ultimate benefit to my existing daughter. Which would depend on us being able to fix our relationship, really. Financially and in terms of quality time with each of us, she would gain enormously from us being together; also purely statistically outcomes for children of broken homes are worse. But I grew up in a house dominated by a toxic relationship (not my mum and dad who divorced when I was small - hence my resistance to step families!) and I know that is more damaging to a child than growing up with separated parents.

I may sound rather calculating; if you knew me you'd be surprised at that, I am a very empathetic and emotive person and have a lot of love to give. But The past two years have changed me, being a mother has changed me, losing my own mother has changed me. I have gone through a great deal of shit fundamentally on my own whilst lying down every night beside somebody else; somebody I should have been able to share it with and rely on emotionally.

I don't recognise the person who can easily countenance having another baby by him then happily waving him off. But it's who I am left being. I think I probably need some more counsellling tbh. Which is another consideration - am I too damaged to be a good mother to a second child right now? And if that's so, am I too damaged to be a good mother to the daughter I have got? I feel like I am a good mother. But no doubt all bad mothers do.

PS you are not "damaged goods". Because you're a person, not a thing. You are capable of working on yourself and changing and growing in ways that you want to.

@NottheFordtype

*This is a very specific fear OP. Have you recently lost a parent? (Or fear you shortly will do?) Even if she is an only child, that won't stop her having great relationships with friends and hopefully a partner.

You mentioned a troubled childhood - have you had therapy regarding this? That might help you decide which direction is right for you. Also check out the Stately Homes thread on this board.*

Hi, yes I lost my mother to suicide last June. I'm not her only child but the only one who still had an involved relationship with her. I grew up with my dad who was an alcoholic and my step mum who is actually fantastic now (has been pretty much since I left home) but when we were kids really struggled both with my dad's issues and picking up two extra children through him. She had her own kid from previous relationship. They had another between them. Big messy 'blended' family. They fought a lot, my whole childhood was spent tensed up at the fear of another enormous row. There is a huge amount of denial across the board about how bad it was.

I've had two episodes of counselling - once at university through student support when a relationship breakdown brought up a bunch of other stuff and brought me low, and once this past autumn through work after I lost my mum. Found both experiences helpful but not transformative. I feel like if I could have counselling every week forever I might be a genuinely happy person a lot of the time! But obviously this isn't realistic, affordable, or the point of counselling. When people say therapy I think they're talking about something different... something that might actually change me rather than just help me manage. But no idea where to start.

"but I do feel a lot of resentment sometimes that I am putting all the effort into the emotional side of our relationship"

I don't want to be harsh OP but your posts don't suggest you are putting effort into the emotional side of your relationship. They suggest you want your relationship to give you a second child, and your husband's emotional needs and happiness are of little interest to you.

Counselling is different to therapy.

Therapists are generally more highly trained (literally anyone can advertise themselves as a counsellor.) Therapy is a lot harder than counselling while you're going through it.

It's also considerably more expensive :( But you have to look at it as an investment in your future (and in your daughter's future.) Whether you decide to stay with your H or not, you will be a better wife, mother, friend, YOU if you get the help you need to make the changes that leave you your best self.

Sorry for the loss of your mother OP

I found the first couple of years after having a baby a really low point in my relationship with my DH. But it did get better. He was rubbish when she was a baby and I was hugely resentful. I also wanted another baby and he didn't.
He didn't change much tbh, but he's not a bad person (just a bit selfish and lazy at times!)
I'm glad we're still together. (This may surprise you, but we're at a point again where we are quite happy and content, but this is ten years down the line).
You sound as if you've had a few very difficult years emotionally..I lost my Mum three years ago and it's been a massive impact on my life and all my other relationships.
Don't be hasty in your decisions now.

I don't want to be harsh OP but your posts don't suggest you are putting effort into the emotional side of your relationship. They suggest you want your relationship to give you a second child, and your husband's emotional needs and happiness are of little interest to you.

That's a fair comment. I think articulating it has helped me realise this is not a good approach - this feeling I am doing all the emotional work is probably a ghost of the relationship we used to have, and is now just a frustration that in spite of all the emotional work I have put in he still isn't responding how I feel he 'should'. It did used to be genuine, if that's any excuse/explanation. I think I have just run out of fucks to give.

While I was writing that I suddenly had this perception of myself as the emotional equivalent of a man whose spouse has low/no libido essentially feeling entitled' to sex, pushing all the right 'good supportive husband' buttons in the hope this will eventually result in the candy bar of sex falling out of the vending machine If nothing else this thread is giving me a crash course in being a bit more self aware...

mustbethistalltoride.com/2015/11/03/why-couples-always-have-the-same-fight/

Read this. And make him start reading this guy's stuff.

Hmm I also chose to have a second child after an extreme rocky patch. In my case my OH is chronically unwell which is the source of much of the stress (so it’s not his fault). However I feel he’s dealt with it in some problematic ways that have unfairly impacted me.

I had a year of solo counselling which was great. Then we made the decision together. Anyway it’s as hard and delightful as I’d imagined but I have to do everything- the majority of the baby work, housework plus a chunk of the paid work. It’s just resentment central right now tbh because not sleeping just does that to you.

In our case my OH is having therapy and is much more present in our relationship which is helping a lot. But it’s just hard going solo with 2 and if I suspected we were likely to split I’d not have done it. I’m an ok Mum if two whereas I was a good Mum of one. HTH

@Beamur

thank you for this. Our relationship has always been difficult, but before we decided to have a baby we were in the best place we'd ever been - things like me stopping drinking as much when we were out together, him developing his self-esteem and social life beyond me and various other things had got us to a place we felt we improved each others lives rather than the opposite. Then we had our daughter and it all came crashing down. His rigidity and selfishness just made no allowance for a new baby.

I think the real break came when I was sleeping on the sofa three days post c-section with the baby next to me in a moses basket, because when I'd tried to have her in our room with him he'd get annoyed every time she'd wake up and I couldn't handle his huffing and puffing on top of her screaming and the agonising breastfeeding (but wouldn't go sleep on the sofa himself as it wasn't comfortable), and then he came in to turn the radiator down (in January, it was freezing in the front room) because the whining in the pipes was keeping him awake. !!

I'm not talking abusive here; in all of these situations I could have just put my foot down and ignored his feelings about it ("she's a newborn baby, she wakes up a lot, I need to sleep in this bed, hard luck" or "fuck off I'm keeping the radiator on full blast") but the fact he genuinely thought his wants were more important and made it a situation where I would have HAD to take that stand, on top of everything I was going through... Like you I don't think he's a bad person; just that he is the most important person to him, always. As a bit of a martyr myself I just can't understand that level of self-interestedness. And that is just the key incident in my mind. There were others. It's chipped away at my respect for him. I don't know how to get it back. Or if I should. But I dream of getting back to that place you are now at where the resentment has subsided. On a practical level our lives are comfortable and easy and good for raising children. I don't want to throw it all away because of emotional stuff which to me seems like it should be easy to fix if we could just engage with it. But he just won't, and I fear he never will.

@NotTheFordType

Thanks for explaining the difference. Are there particular types of therapy that are more effective than others? I don't want to lie on a couch and be told it's all my parents' fault (because duh!) I want to be helped not to feel the way I feel and do the things I do... but I do worry I wouldn't still be me at the end of that. Sorry I know you're not Google and I should probably just do some research on this but any experience would be useful.

I fully relate OP. I was in exactly the same position including all the shitty childhood stuff. My dh hated not being centre of my life any more. It made me realise how utterly selfish and self absorbed he was. I was never the centre of his life, I was a useful sidekick who helped his life run smoothly while adoring him.
We ended up having a second baby unplanned and he got worse. He's now my ex, a shit dad and blames all his life failings on me because I would no longer ensure his life went smoothly at the cost of everything else. But I am free, and I have two gorgeous children.
I suspect you know what you want to do but are too worried about the outcome for your daughter. I can only advise that if you think you will separate, do it earlier rather than later - the younger the child the quicker they adjust, in my experience anyway.

@Senseiwu

Thank you. I feel less stupid knowing other people have also got themselves in this position. With hindsight I can see I have set myself up into it. There's another thread on the go here now which is just like my relationship has been and anyone can see it's not acceptable and not sustainable with kids. Even I can see that. And yet I let this happen.

I'm glad you are all happier now and you did complete your family xx

It's not just having the baby. It's having the baby and your mother dying in a really shocking and upsetting way. I wouldn't be making any huge decisions either about another child or leaving your H at the moment. I'm very sorry for your loss.

A friend of mine is a psychotherapist and recently recommended cognitive analytic therapy as a good approach for talking about a chaotic or difficult childhood as it has (she says) the 'taking action' approach of cbt and the deeper analytical stuff of other therapies. It may be expensive but I think it might really help you. You're trying to make huge decisions when this other huge loss and upset must still be affecting you. That's not to say your H isn't guilty of all the things you say but better to make a decision when you're clearer about your own emotional state.

Very best wishes OP