How to respond to narcissistic ex

[Continuingvictim17]

Hi all.
I would really like some ideas of how to respond to my narcissistic ex.
Brief history is I was with my emotionally abusive ex for 4 years and I have two children with him who have contact with him 2 days a week.
It took a lot of strength for me to leave, (as his mind games and abuse left me very close to a nervous breakdown) but eventually I found the strength to file for divorce. He ignored all divorce papers and prolonged it for me, but eventually I got my divorce done.

Financially I got nothing in the divorce, as he’s on very “low income.” Child support he pays £30 a month in total for both kids. I know he works a lot more, but cash in hand, so difficult to prove.

Anyway, he’s got his new wife living with him now that the kids stayed with last week.
The only communication we have is through messaging and in a communication book.
I raised some issues about my 3 year old being kept in nappies in his care, when I recorded that she shouldn’t be, due to potty training. (They put a nappy on her when she was returned, so I wouldn’t know, but since contact she’s had accidents that she didn’t before).
The second issue was him bringing his new wife and nieces to handover of the children, when it is stated in a court order that is should only be him at handovers. (I regret not taking a photo of this)
The last issue was her being returned with makeup on and hair straightened that I felt was inappropriate for a 3 yr old who should instead be taught to value herself as she is. (This is the only claim i have proof of, as I took a photo of how she looked)

His response is:
“Firstly, can I start by saying it’s not morally correct to send your best friend a message at 12AM midnight let alone your ex-husband who is now happy married. So can I urge you to use the communication book for any form of communication and if any urgent messages are sent via SMS or WhatsApp (which is clearly not the case) to send them during working hours (8:30AM – 5:30PM) not at 12AM. But, if there’s is anything URGENT relating my kids health or anything else urgent which requires my immediate attention then off course you can contract me anytime even midnight.
Yet again, another pack of lies and false allegations and I don’t feel there is any need to response. However, I’ll seek advice from my solicitor and if a need to response I’ll write it down in the communication which is the method to communication.”

His gloating and not acknowledging any of the issues is so frustrating, so just wanted some advice on a response please.
Please note I’m not remotely interested in him or jealous, I’m just glad I’m out of there and pity his next victim.
As his control over me is no longer there, he uses the children as a weapon to get at me.

Its hard because no matter what you send to him, you will be wrong in his eyes. He will never agree or see your point of view so really its pointless responding at all.

I do agree you shouldnt have messaged him at that time of night however if you want to raise issues and want a quick repsonse i dont see why you cant text him, it shouldnt have to be written in a book ffs, this is just him being an arse. I dont see why he had to include "who is now happily married" like what does that matter, hes the father of your kids you have to communicate.

Maybe for now ignore the things you cant prove, the more he knows hes getting to you the more he will do it. If you act like you dont care maybe he will stop.

The nappy thing i wouldnt be happy with but again you cant prove it. How old is your other child, could they tell you if DD had been in nappies the whole time?

As is often said on here, pick your battles.

Sending messages at night probably isn't the best idea. You are more likely wound up than level headed. Stick religiously to any agreements about communication and then he can't complain.

The problem is that with these men, the more you ask them to do something, the less likely they are to do it as it's a win for them. If you get annoyed at his communications, it's a win for him.

I still haven't completely got to the point where I am able not to rise to my ex's taunts but I have come to accept that there isn't much I can do to influence him and I'm learning to accept it.

Narcs are control freaks . He’s drawing you into a control battle and you can’t win, because you can’t stop him doing these things with the kids when they are with him.

Unless a social worker or court would agree that these things are absuive AND You have proof, you can’t win. Fighting him will only make him do it more to piss you off. Remember these guys are smart and know how to work the system ( like the £30/month).

So things like make up and straightened hair on a 3yo ( yes I agree it’s awful ), nappies and extra people at handover , you will have to let go. He will come up with good reasons and you will look like a nutter.

Remember the system always favours the men. The court will expect him to do nothing with his kids so having them two days a week makes him Father of the Year.

I’m sorry, I know that isn’t what you want to hear.

Unfortunately I agree that midnight is not the time to be texting about non emergency stuff.

Also as co parent he will just argue that if she is having accidents and he feels she should be in nappies that is his call on his watch.

Make up and hair straightening could just be his new wife doing hers and your DD wants. Again nothing you can really argue about.

It is unfortunate but I think it is something you should let go.

Unless it is an abusive incident which the above aren't then you are best to let it wash over you and not give him any rise.

Thank you for your replies. My other child is 5, so he has told me she’s always in nappies, but they took it off in the car before she came back to me. Both children told me tbh, as the 3 year old communicates well, however their ages mean they aren’t taken seriously and he is, as he is the adult.

I never even saw the time I replied tbh. It’s just the only time I had, as the kids were asleep, I had finished afew jobs and that was the only time I got round to replying. He’s never raised issue with this before, and only now he is, as he’s “happily married,” suggesting I’m jealous or something.

My 3 year old is almost 4 and due to start reception in September where she has to be without nappies, so prolonging the potty training for no reason is just cruel. She does actually understand and keeps dry at home and at nursery, but as she’s put in nappies there she regresses and gets lazy.

It is in court order that only communication is through a communication book and by message. I did write that it’s written in the communication book, but I’m raising it by message too. (Just as added protection for myself, as he has previously ripped pages out of the communication book).

There were other issues that they didn’t have to brush their teeth there and had pizzas and burgers everyday, but I chose to let them go and focus on what I felt was more important, but just feels like a losing battle unfortunately.

Sorry, just to add the final court order was granted, so there is no more court involvement. So him “contacting his solicitor” is just just trying to scare me. (He always had a solicitor during the court proceedings, but I self-represented).

Emotional abuse is difficult to prove and it’s very easy for abusers to manipulate the court system and act the perfect fathers.

It IS a losing battle and he’s a shit. I’m sorry you and your kids have to put up with it.

Take photos or photo copies of the contact book each time you get it.

He sounds very similar to my stbxh in some areas. My children are very slightly older.
Look up "going Gray rock". This is the only way to can move forward with some like this. You have to stop feeding his desire to wind you up.
I have been separated a few years, we have a court order and i have a residency order. Even with the involvement of social services and the police due to his behaviour, his behaviour has not stopped. He still continues to use the children as a weapon against me and does the bear minimum with the children. I struggle not to feel angry about it but tbh its pointless.

Keep a diary of all your concerns, but really unless its a safeguarding issue no one will take any notice.

I now rate a situation out of 10 and unless its 8 or above in terms of importance i dont say anything.

YOu need to try and find a way of stepping out of the abusive cycle that you are still in (im the same).

Thanks all, very useful advice.
I just have to stay patient, ignore his games and hope the kids realise what’s he’s like themselves as they get older and aren’t too emotionally damaged by his narcissism.
Very frustrating and the system definitely needs changing.

I agree with other posters. He is enjoying having the upper hand, not necessarily a narcissistic trait though.

I also agree with choosing your battles. As long as he is caring for his children you can't really slate him for not parenting the way you want him to.

Could you try telling your little girl she needs to be out of nappies when she starts school like a big girl, so no more nappies at daddy 's house?

Or alternatively just don't send any nappies over. At the very least it means he has to buy them.

@laughingcow99 that’s he most annoying thing, he doesn’t really “care” for them very well, but none of it constitutes “abuse,” so he easily gets away with it. There’s no rules or boundaries there. They have fast food everyday. He works himself during the night somewhere, so sleeps during the day. Then it’s left to his sister an her kids to parent them, which will now be a role for his new wife.
The main issue is that I got the courage to leave him and expose him for the vile person he was, many people became aware of his true colours. That was the biggest mistake in his eyes, so now he is intent on hurting me through the children, as that’s the only contact he has with me. He doesn’t have any sense of empathy about how he’s hurting the kids at all.

@SandyY2K yes, I have told her that, so she always tells me at home when she wants to go, and the same at her nursery. She loves getting rewards and praise when she’s stayed dry, and I’ve advised him this too.

She did say I don’t want to wear nappies, but they still put it on her. Then she said when she needed to go, but they said “you’ve got a nappy on, so you don’t need to go to the toilet, just go in there.” So she became lazy again and when she came back she was having accidents again.
As an adult I was no match for him, so they have no issue overpowering a tiny 3 year old unfortunately.

I haven’t sent nappies for quite a while, so he has had to buy some or get some from his family, so that’s actually the only thing he does get.

My father was useless when I was a child. I stopped seeing him when I was 12. I couldn't stand being around him. I am in my 40s and to this day have no contact.

Your children will make up their own minds about him in time.

You are doing your best, as my mum did. Be proud of yourself. As for his bragging about his new life. Well, there's no guarantee that will last. Especially if he is narcissistic.

ime you praise them when you can. You butter them up and charm them, tell them they're wonderful, you quite understand how things are difficult for them etc etc. Lay it on with a trowel. Then get your points in, buried right in the middle of the lavish praise and understanding.

Easy for me to type of course!! But needs must. Same as you, because of the kids I had to communicate with my narc ex, who made life hell for years and years after we split, and I wasn't great at buttering him up but I was giving it a good shot and actually getting there by the end.

His pompous reply to your text made me laugh - narcs really are full of absolute shit. But I've been where you are and it wasn't so easy to laugh. Can you find a support group for survivors of domestic abuse? ime we laughed till we cried at ours - at the absurd things these knobends get up to.

@laughingcow99 thank you for your own experience. I do hope the kids have the strength to stand upto any wrong behaviour from him when they’re older and to make the decision to distance them self from such a toxic person. However, as the court order is until the child is 16 or 18 I know he will try his best to blame me that the kids love me really and I’ve just brainwashed them and take me to court for breaking the court order. I’m not looking forward to it, but I just hope the kids aren’t too damaged in that time and can see things for themselves to decide what is best for them.

@springydaff lol I know if I did that he would get so bigheaded and start saying that I really am interested in him, that’s the kind of person he is. I understand where you’re coming from though. Their need for praise is so strong, sometimes that’s the only way to get through to them.

unfortunately there’s nothing like a support group round here in the Midlands. That’s why I’m having to learn all this for myself and why the advice on here is so invaluable.

His latest response has been:
“My daughter has had accidents in my house, but been shy to tell me, hence as a precaution I used a nappy. Kindly use handover book to communicate and do not text me at unsociable hours at midnight unless urgent.”

It’s great that I’ve got an admission from him that he does put her in nappies, but his new tactic of choosing to communicate just by the communication book is frustrating, as it’s not as strong proof as a text message would be.
It was agreed in the court order and parenting plan that communication would be through the communication book and through messaging, and it has never been an issue until now for some reason.
I’m worried he will “accidentally lose” the book or damage it and deny what was written. I have taken pictures of the communication book, but I can still see him denying he wrote it or some other excuse to get out of admitting what he wrote.

Oh god he’s making me angry and wound up! I fully empathise with you it must be a hundred times worse for you.

Definitely use the ‘Grey Rock’ technique, it’s hard but it really is the only way to deal with the manipulative narcs. He wants to know he’s pushing your buttons, any sort of a reaction from you feeds his narcissistic supply.

I just have to stay patient, ignore his games and hope the kids realise what’s he’s like themselves as they get older and aren’t too emotionally damaged by his narcissism

This is the best piece of advice you can give yourself, keeping being the normal, decent, sane parent and your kids will work it out for themselves given time.

Ok, so I just feel so lost and helpless, it definitely feels like the abuse is still continuing and I can’t do anything about it, the law is no protection at all.

So last week he wrote In the communication book that our sons “nails need to be cut!”
He could just as easily have done them himself, but chose to order me to do them instead.

Then this week he’s due to have the children from Wednesday until Friday. On Wednesday morning he messaged saying he won’t be able to have the children “as his uncle has passed away and he will be out of city.”
I replied saying “You could still collect the kids after school tomorow, (Thursday) as A funeral isn’t likely to take 3 days.”
His response yesterday was I’m still not at home and most likely won’t be home anytime soon, and “Your actually wrong, in our culture bereavement takes place for 3 days. I’ll appreciate you be understanding and compromising in these difficult situations.”

Now abit of background he’s never spoken to this “uncle” when he was alive, they hated each other and didn’t get on, so it was far from a close relationship. He’s milking this for his own end to avoid having the children.
He also gets the reduced rate of child maintenance due to overnight arrangements, so not having the children overnights means he’s using this to benefit himself too.
In the meantime I’m left having to cancel my plans at short notice for this excuse that he’s come up with this time.
I’ve cut my sons nails, (they weren’t even particularly long) and I don’t know if I should write a response for that too.
I suppose I’m venting and looking for advice again please, as I don’t know if the best response in this case is just to ignore completely with no response or respond something like:
“The length of a period of mourning is dependent upon the relationship that one shared with the deceased. I’m sure his family would’ve preferred not to see you, just like when he was alive. Missing the full contact period with the children for someone mutually disliked shows hypocrisy at best!”

Do not get sucked in to giving him any way to come back to you. If you absolutely feel you need to respond text something totally neutral. My ex sends emails that are longer than the bible and if I can not sit on my hands any longer, I usually respond with " You must do what you feel is most appropriate". Failing that, when I am taking my own advice, I ignore ignore ignore.

Do not respond!!!!!

He’s doing this to get your reaction

So grey rock him if you have to reply, otherwise ignore him.

Record all the days he cancels and go back to court with the revised schedule and get the maintenance changed to reflect the time he spends with the kids

Did you really text at him at midnight though ? Dont give him any ammunition

Ignore him and don't respond about the nails.

Just do your best to make alternative plans for the DC. Anytime they're not with him is better for them.

Are you from the same culture as him?

I learned this the hard way but the best thing you really can do is ignore abusive communication. If you really feel the need to respond don't do it immediately. Sleep on it before doing so. Don't respond with any emotion your body. Be straightforward. Don't try to "win". Take copies of every communication. Trust me they will be invaluable in the future