Vent - difficult visit from parents

[Asiama]

Not really looking for advice (although any welcome) - I just need a space to vent and get this off my chest!

My parents have just left after visiting to see my 11 week old son. We have a difficult relationship so each rare visit is strained. They stayed for 2 hours. My blood pressure was up within 15 mins of them being here! Gems from my mum include:

1. Having a go at me for going for a walk when they were 50 minutes late and didn't ring or text me to let me know, or answer their phones when I called them to see where they were. Their expectation was that there is no need to inform me as I would be at home with the baby. And no apology for being late!

1. The reason the baby cries when I put him down to sleep is because none of the four cots / beds we bought for him are comfortable, they are of low quality because we cheaped out (we didn't, we have a Chicco Next2Me, a Mamas & Papas cotbed etc). We should have bought a fifth cot, the one she had commanded us to buy after she had seen the first four, because her choice would be comfortable for the baby. Repeat ad nauseum.

1. Several instructions to:

• take the baby out of my sling and put it in a cot, because the peacefully sleeping baby is uncomfortable snuggled up to me.
• wake the baby up so she can hold it.
• change how I store pots and pans in the kitchen.
• eat the curry she brought with her, which I hadn't asked for, because it's good for me. This is despite knowing that I gag when I eat that specific curry.
• keep out of the photos they were taking of the baby because I don't look good.

1. Disapproved of the new furniture that we had bought (indirectly, by just saying "oh" and looking disapprovingly, and giving suggestions on how to change the room we had just done up) and basically insulted our home by saying it was clear that we hadn't finished doing it up.

1. Told me that if I didn't have a baby she wouldn't have visited as she doesn't want to see me, because I don't do as she tells me to.

My husband refused to be here for their visit because he can't stand my mother. When I told my father this, he said he couldn't really see what she had done today that was so terrible.

AARGH!

Unfortunately babies don’t repair couples relationships and they don’t tend to fix others either. If anything they make you think ‘do I really want my kids to experience this?’ .

@Greenglassteacup it wasn't a recommendation, it was an instruction! "Get some pillows and squash the baby's head to make it more round and less cone shaped, otherwise children will make fun of him and it will be your fault", repeated over and over again. Each time I responded that his head is perfect and I'm not doing it. So she changed tack and told the baby that Mummy is being a meanie for not squashing his head because she won't squash his head, and he'll have me to thank for being bullied for his funny shaped head when he's in school.

Why is your husband grey? Too much contact with toxic people

Get a translator app for your husband to listen to your conversations then he can reply in kind

Next time take the baby out for an extra long walk and pops turn your phone off

If it helps I had a rubbish relationship with my mum. (Dad not on the scene for years and years) and as my DD got older I just put up with less and less crap, I couldn't be bothered with it and the older my dd got the more I realised how truly awful she was. I've been NC for 18 months now. It's absolutely fine and me and my five year old (I'm a single parent - no other family besides a brother who still lives with my mum and I'm not close too) have an amazing relationship.

It may naturally happen for you anyway Op. you'll just move away further and further emotionally.

Oh OP @attilathemeercat speaks a lot of sense. We often are on the same threads because I also have a mother like yours.

Except. I refused to take her shit any longer about a decade ago. It was the best decision I've ever made. She also used to make comments like, you're a lot like your aunt, and I don't like her, maybe that's why we don't get on... I could go on.

Block, avoid and move on with creating a wonderful life away from these toxic people and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner

Your part about not getting on with siblings because they don't do what she tells them.. And growing up thinking all your relatives aren't very nice when actually it's her. Bingo.

@abbsisspartacus very funny!  that's a good idea about the translator app, if they ever meet again. Funny, since about 6 months ago my FIL (who is more like a DF to me) has told us not to tell my parents when he comes from abroad to visit us, although is happy to occasionally email or text them. Wonder what happened...

@GreenTulips next time I'm not waiting around! Somehow I was the one in the wrong even though they were the ones who were late and didn't let me know.

@Ratbagcatbag I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm willing to put up with less of their behaviour and I'm naturally withdrawing even further. I find it sad that I'm starting to feel indifferent towards them because it means that the relationship has no hope of improving. I knew that in my head all along, my heart is catching up to that reality. I don't know if that makes sense.

@Treacletoots thank you, and I'm sorry that your mum is the same. The thing that worries about NC is whether I might regret it when they are dead. I think it's going to happen naturally anyway though. I'm also now reconsidering everything she had told me about our relatives. I wonder what they are like. I feel it's too late to build a relationship with them and it's her fault for keeping me away from them.

It absolutely makes sense. You know rationally they treat you wrong, and it's not a normal relationship.
But she's your mum, and your heart hopes that she will suddenly realise this and act like the mum you want and deserve.
The very unfortunate reality is she never will. Unless you dance to her tune at all times.
But only you can decide when enough is enough, it took me my DD getting to 3.5 and my mum making the same damaging comments that she did about me, about her (although if you asked my mum she'd say she was being caring and considerate). I withdrew further and further, until one day my mum text me her exact feelings about me. It gave me total closure and I really haven't looked back since.

You might not be ready for it now, but once your heart catches up and accepts you'll likely move further emotionally away. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

Wow, I commend you for lasting 2 hours!

t. So she changed tack and told the baby that Mummy is being a meanie for not squashing his head because she won't squash his head, and he'll have me to thank for being bullied for his funny shaped head when he's in school.

Did you find it hard not to laugh? it's so ridiculous

Mind you if you ever really want to piss off someone who wants to be Dictator over Everyone She Knows, laugh at them. They truly can't handle it :D

I'm sorry your mum is so unpleasant though. it really sucks to have a parent like this.

I think your husband has the right idea.
Mine is surrounded by people who look at her in funny ways, say funny things or act weird. Nobody believes anything she says, or pays attention to her. It is her reality.

I think you need to find a new kind of a relationship, one that is as unstressful as possible, and then stick with that. For example, you always visit her, not vice versa, so you can leave when you like. And then only three times a year, if that worked. With mine I find phone calls go better.

After another incident I have blocked my mum on WhatsApp. I don't know if I'm overreacting. I feel a bit sad and angry but also relieved.

I received a message saying to buy a soft mattress for the cot that she saw in our house at the last visit, so that he can play and sleep happily in it and I can work and rest (presumably the implication being that it means I don't need to carry him in my sling, which she is very much against, as the baby apparently doesn't like it, it's only something that poor people do and at the same time she's never seen anyone carry their baby in a sling). I told her to stop interfering or I will block her, she asked me to forgive her but she will carry on as she is a merciful person and she gives advice to help us have a comfortable life (then why ask for forgiveness?), so I said since she will carry on she's blocked.

@JenniferJareau thank you! If there's any positive to come out of my relationship with her, she's probably the reason why I'm so patient.

@SeaEagleFeather there's very little that she says that's NOT ridiculous and while I would love to say it makes me want to laugh, I'm ashamed that it actually wants to make me punch my own mother.

@ravenmum the least stressful type of relationship is one where I visit her. Then she can't make derogatory comments about my house or keep making the same "helpful advice" that we have repeatedly said we don't want. However, she has said we are not allowed to visit because the journey is too stressful for the baby. For context, they live very close to my workplace so it's a journey I do regularly and am happy with! The goalposts keep changing - first I wasn't allowed to visit when I was pregnant, not even after work, because they decided the stress of the journey is not good for the baby. They said I would be allowed to visit once the baby is born.

Now that the baby is here, I'm only allowed to visit once he's 6 months, but only if we come by car and my husband comes as well. I am not going to drive to them, never have, because the journey takes twice as long, but in their minds it's more comfortable and less stressful to be in a car for two hours than on a train for 50 mins. We don't get the choice on what suits as best, they know better. It's always been that every time we achieve their criteria, the goalposts get moved.

Its not your fault your parents are this disordered of thinking, it really is not. Their own families did that lot of damage to them.

Keep your mother blocked on WhatsApp as well; you really do get nothing at all positive from having any sort of interaction with her at all. Consider too read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and looking at the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

Re an earlier comment of yours:-

"The thing that worries about NC is whether I might regret it when they are dead".

They do not care about you when you are still alive, do not go down that particular rabbit hole. Let the guilt go. Your parents had a choice when it came to you but they chose the low road and continue even now to denigrate both you and your choices as an adult. They see you still as incapable.

It is so hard to be hurt by someone who should love you. But we cannot stand idly by and allow these relationships to continue. We have to set boundaries and end contact if needed. Because sometimes the only person you can save is you. So save yourself. You are worth it.

The goalposts will keep moving about. Make a life for yourselves without either of your parents in it. Its really not possible to have a relationship with someone like this.

Are the "sling = poor" and "pillows to shape head" ideas from the country she comes from? The latter is something I've heard of here in Germany - well, advice to put a baby to bed in different positions so the back of their head won't be flat. Pillows would be considered dangerous here. Where she comes from, are people also generally supposed to look up to their elders?

I think you may need to borrow some of her tactics. So if she wants to visit, say that she can't because it upsets your baby. Visitors upset your baby. Visitors with her hair colour upset your baby. Visitors with her pitch of voice upset your baby. Car journeys also upset your baby. So if she wants to see you, it will have to be at her house, by train.

Either that or just don't see her in person. I live abroad and see my mother once a year at most; the kids have still got to know her as a grandparent over the years.

Now that the baby is here, I'm only allowed to visit once he's 6 months, but only if we come by car and my husband comes as well.

Brilliant. So you’re not going there, because you don’t choose to drive and your dh doesn’t want to come.

And, you’re allowed to invent insane visiting rules too. So they’re only allowed to visit you if they come when your dh has taken the baby out for the day (because your mum hurt you with that comment about only visiting to see the baby). And they must come by public transport (because you’ve decided it’s safer for them) and only when the sun is shining (just because).

That should do it.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for your kind words. I have weak moments where I believe them that they have my best I interests at heart, they are giving me advice (albeit unsolicited) because they have more life experience than me but then I have moments where I realise they must think I'm a total idiot and have no respect for my opinions or feelings. How do I make sure that I don't treat my child in the way they have treated me? Every day I worry I will turn out like them and alienate my baby when he's older.

When you have the strength you might want to get some counselling to help you talk through these issues. I'd also suggest reading Toxic Parents.
The cultural differences seem irrelevant, your parents sound pretty toxic. And the less contact you have the better.
Would you really regret it when they die? Or just be relieved?

I think because you recognise the difference between well meaning advice and someone thinking you are an idiot, marks you as not following their lead!

@ravenmum I'm not sure about the sling, I just checked online and they are sold there in "nice" shops. She is from a country where you respect your elders but I think she's on a completely different level. I've had people from her country her age tell me to make sure I do things my way and not let her steamroll me. I can understand getting a baby to lie in different positions but she wants me to physically push his head and mould it onto shape, apparently that's what they do over there. I've said no several times but she goes on about it.

I do try to use her tactics but apparently she knows the baby better than me, even though they have only met twice. She also apparently knows my husband better than me. She brought food last time that my husband hates, insisted on leaving it here because he will definitely eat it and I don't know what I'm talking about, and I had to text him to confirm he won't eat it before she believed me and took it back home. Same type of stuff with the baby. The baby actually doesn't like car journeys that much but she insists that it's more comfortable for him ie we don't know our baby. She always knows better.

@JellyBabiesSaveLives I've actually said exactly that, that we won't visit because we refuse to drive and my husband refuses to come. Her response is God will make it happen! Sorry for the drip feed, I forgot to mention that she is a religious nut. No one knows God as well as her or is close to him as her. If she can't logically win an argument, God is invoked. My husband also suggested we have our own visiting rules, exactly what you suggested, but only because we worry that they are driving at 40/50 on the motorway and my dad doesn't enjoy driving but is forced to by my mum, who refuses to use the train or learn to drive.

Hi Asiama,

re your comment:-
"How do I make sure that I don't treat my child in the way they have treated me? Every day I worry I will turn out like them and alienate my baby when he's older".

Your fears are really unfounded and are perhaps based on your own fear, obligation and guilt re your parents. Do read the book I recommended. You are not them and already you are treating your son far better than your parents have treated you. You are a separate person from them, you can and will make better choices than they did towards you.

@Bekabeech I'm not sure I will feel relief, probably numbness and sadness that the opportunity for our relationship to improve is truly gone, not that it's really there in the first place.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you, I will read that book.

I'm starting to feel very angry at my dad. As a child I thought he was trapped and helpless like me, he'd tell me that I can escape in a few years whereas he is stuck. I now realise he could have made choices to protect me, and I expect he was telling both my mum and me whatever we wanted to hear. He told my mum once that he would die of a heart attack caused by me, probably to show my mum that he was on her side in thinking I'm terrible.

A few weeks ago I received an email from my mum saying I need to protect my son from any fear he might feel when I bathe him, walk with him up the stairs in our house, go out with him etc, otherwise when he is older he will be too weak to achieve anything in life when he's older (sounds mad right?) today I realised how ironic her email was - as a child she repeatedly made me really scared by threatening to abandon me or have me adopted for minor misdemeanours eg not bringing her something quickly enough. I guess I'm her head that's not as damaging as carrying a child while walking up some stairs!

Asiama
The realisation hits us when we have our own children, that's when understanding comes, I mean that it dawns on us that we'd never treat our very precious babies as our parents did us.
I didn't realise how bad my mother was until I had my own child. I was determined never to treat him as I was. I managed to parent him successfully and he is now an extremely loving father to his two young children. I wish you well and would encourage you to stay strong if you can

Oh dear, I'm sorry that I posted before your update. Your father sounds as though he has as much fear about your mother that you do.

I need a slap across the face.

My parents have asked me to give them a date when they could visit and rather than saying "20th of never" I've actually suggested a date at the end of April. I'd left it a few days to respond but I couldn't bring myself to just say no.

The date I've suggested is when DH will be at work and they've asked if we could rearrange so that he will be there too, even though I told them many times previously that he does not want to see them. My FIL will be here on that day so I'm hoping they will be better behaved.