Can we come back from this?

[CoffeeChocolateWine]

My DH and I have been together for 14 years, married for 8 and have 3 DC aged 10, 6 and 8 months. I’ve always felt our relationship was strong...we’ve had ups and downs over the years like any relationship but always felt that we had each other’s back, we’re united and generally felt like I’d married one of the really good men out there.

But over the past year he has let me down spectacularly. After making the decision to try for a third child and getting pregnant, he’s had some kind of mid-life crisis. Quite early on in my pregnancy he started making comments that he was ‘struggling to excited’ about having another baby. In my second trimester, it was very clear that I was expecting a very big baby, I was tired, heavy and really suffering with heartburn but really tried to keep upbeat and busy but he told me that he felt that he and the kids were really suffering as a result of me and my pregnancy. A few weeks before I was due to,give birth, he told me that he’d changed his mind, didn’t want another baby and if he could turn back time he would undo it, leaving me understably very upset at a time when I really could have done with his full support.

During the very early weeks after our DD was born, he was largely absent...he threw himself into his work, went to every conference, work jolly and networking event going and I basically felt abandoned to look after the baby (who at that point had undiagnosed CMPA so lots of screaming), a very emotional 5yo who was struggling to adapt to not being the baby of the family anymore, and a 9yo who felt he needed to step up and comfort his little sister because I had my hands full with the baby and my husband just wasn’t there. It was an incredibly hard time and he basically just left me to it and didn’t seem to give a shit. After a few weeks, we had an argument where he said that he didn’t see why his life should have to change at all after having a baby because it was me who wanted the baby not him. He said the words ‘you’ve got what you want now, so now I’m doing what I want’. It also transpired that he had started getting close to a young woman (in her twenties - we are early forties) who he consistently lied to me about by omission and later lied to my face about spending time with. There was no affair but there is no doubt in my mind that it was heading that way had I not found out about. This is a very edited version...there’s too many things that I could write about but it has been a horrible horrible time.

Anyway, fast forward to now. We have had some very long and emotional chats where I’ve told him how much his actions and words have hurt me, I’ve felt completely taken for granted and undervalued, the way he has treated his baby daughter is despicable, I’ve lost trust in him etc etc. He’s shown a lot of genuine, I think, remorse. He has also totally fallen in love with our baby and is making an effort to help and bond with her. He has agreed to counselling and is making a real effort to make things better between us and rebuild the trust.

But, the thing is...after everything that has happened, I don’t feel the same. I never thought he could let me down and treat me as badly as he has. Not only was he unsupportive at a time when I really needed his support, he actually made a challenging time one hell of a lot harder because of his behaviour. When I look back on my DD’s babyhood, I will always remember what a shit time he put me through when I should have been enjoying her. He’s ruined that for me. He is making such an effort now but I feel bitter and resentful. I look at him bonding with our daughter and feel that he doesn’t deserve her. He keeps telling me that he’s ‘struggled to adapt’ to having another baby but that ‘things are getting better now’, but I just think it’s a piss poor excuse and that things aren’t getting better because I’ve seen him in a different light now and things have changed forever. We’re going to go to counselling but I’m starting to wonder if I can ever move on from this. I don’t know what I’m asking really. Has anyone been through this and got through it? Is this salvageable? I would do anything to keep my family together but my husband is not the man I thought he was.

@blackcat86 I'm sorry you are going through this too. It is shit.

Thank you for all the comments. To answer the question that has been asked a couple of times, he claims that he only went along with the third baby to make me happy but I never realised this at the time and honestly I don't think it's entirely true. We talked about having another baby for 2 years before going for it. It was originally me who wanted another but I remember him saying it would be really cool to have another one, how he missed having a baby around, how it would be lovely for our other kids etc. He never said he didn't want another child and it was very much a joint decision to start trying, although I do recall him saying at that time "if it's really what you want, I'm up for it" so perhaps I should have read more into that in hindsight. He also happily partook in regular unprotected sex for 6 months before we conceived. He claims that deep down he didn't really think it would happen as we had trouble conceiving our second child. But frankly I think that's an idiotic thing to say.

I'm not minimising the OW thing...I just didn't go into full details here. I've told him that I feel totally betrayed and cheated because she was present at every conference, jolly, networking event he went to in those early months after Dd was born and he was choosing to spend his time and energy with her instead of supporting me and then lied to me by omission about it. It makes me feel sick when I think back to those nights that I struggled for hours trying to calm a screaming baby, consol a tearful 5yo and try to keep everything together alone while he was enjoying a flirtatious blossoming friendship with a woman 15 years younger than him. It makes me so angry just thinking about it and the trust has gone.

I think at this point we have nothing to lose by going to counselling, and I want to feel like we've tried everything before giving up. But at the moment it feels too huge and too fresh to forgive. But time will tell.

To clarify, when I said in my OP that there was "no affair" wih the OW, I meant to write physical affir. There was definitely an emotional affair.

@LemonTT, yes I posted about this before Christmas when I discovered that there was someone he wasn't telling me about. I received some really good advice that gave me the confidence to confront him about it. Things have moved on now and we are trying to pick up the pieces so I felt the need to turn to MN again.

@CCW, how can you be sure that it wasn’t a PA? If he lied about spending so much time with her, it’s certainly possible that he lied about it being physical. The magnitude of his cruelty seems to indicate a full-on Physical and Emotional Affair.

@MsDogLady, I don't know with 100% certainty. When my suspicions were raised before Christmas I did some snooping. I'm not proud but I felt I had to. I looked at his work emails and Whatsapp messages. The content did not seem to suggest anything sexual between them, they were more jokey than flirtly but always signed off with a 'x'. I don't believe they have ever been properly alone together, always as part of a bigger group, but again this is based on instinct and backed up by what I found on emails. He admitted to me 3 weeks ago that he is attracted to her and suspects it's reciprocated. This is something he denied initially when I confronted him before Christmas. I told him that I wasn't naive enough to think that just because we're married he will never find himself attracted to another woman but that I do expect him to behave in a way that respects me and respects our marriage and he hasn't. I also told him that he needs to terminate the friendship. He has agreed and taken everything on board and is now making an effort but there is a huge amount of damage done.

So he had an affair while you were pregnant and then tried to justify it by making you believe he didn't want the baby and making you feel like shite?

And you want to come back from this - erm why?

What she said ^

I didn't say I wanted to come back from it, I asked of it was possible after this level of betrayal. And I'm asking if it is possible because I feel I owe it to my children to explore every option before breaking up our family and breaking their hearts. You don't have to agree with it, but don't just disrespect it. This is my life, my marriage, my children and my family.

I fully support you CoffeeChocolateWine you sound so calm and sensible, like you really have your head screwed on despite what has happened. You've been through a terrible time, it's no wonder you feel the way you do and I really wish you all the very best - you deserve it

PS I can't believe he said he suspects she finds him attractive as well.

Thank you @toffeeapple123. That nearly made me cry x

No problem, and please don't cry - just keep hanging in there! Things will work out for the best either way. Look after yourself and surround yourself with a good support network

Coffee you sound like an amazing strong and sensible lady.

In my view once resentment sets in - even if it is tempered by later concentrated efforts towards 'good behaviour , the resentment can be corrosive.

Agree with a pp very eloquent post 're sunken costs fallacy and staying out of fear. Been there ..However my story is worse potentially than yours. Exdp said all the same BS just prior to Dc2 birth 're 'going along to keep me happy ' and basically said he wasn't fully on board. He too checked out. Went clubbing every weekend, out all night. No OW just a love affair with class A drugs. On the night dc2 was born he went on an all night bender. Repeatedly he took himself off at the weekend leaving me with a new born and a 2 year old. There were many things wrong with our relationshio previously but this was the icing on the cake. For me no amount of counselling could ever get us past it. The difference may well be that he fundamentally couldn't alter his behaviour longer term. But even still I never got past the resentment and threw him out after her 2nd birthday. Working single mum but I never looked back.

Added into that breach of trust. My exdp had a lot of flirtation when He was out if not EA also.

Give counselling a go yes but it is also perfectly valid that you may feel there is no getting last resentment or betrayal. Improved surface behaviour won't nullify damage caused necessarily.

Good luck in whichever path you choose x

Really no offence OP but seriously you believe it never got physical but yet he was constantly working away and she was there at every event, he then treated you like utter crap during this and pretty much abandoned you and his child.

By all means give it another go but you’re being incredibly naive to believe it was only platonic.

What I said was that I don't know with 100% certainty but looking at messages between them there is nothing to suggest anything physical. There is banter but nothing sexual but they have defintely gone from work acquaintances to good friends. And I also said that here is no doubt in my mind that it could become physical if I hadn't found out. But no I don't think it's physical yet and they have always been together as part of a larger group.

I’d not believe it hadn’t got physical, that’s probably why he was away so much from home, he left you at your most vulnerable time and treated his child like nothing, maybe you can forgive and move on but I’d never trust or put myself in a position where a man could exploit me to that kind of hurt.

Good luck And please protect yourself and do what’s best for you nobody else.

In my view, you had the right to look at the messages because of his horrifying behavior.

He enjoys keeping secrets from you. He initially hid his relationship with the OW. He didn’t come clean when confronted in December, and until recently was still lying about their attraction. He’s drip-feeding, and you probably don’t have anything near the whole story.

Has he suffered any painful consequences for throwing a grenade into your life?

Although their mutual attraction had likely been established and acted on long ago, their jokey messages hid that, and you are still relying on this to deny a physical affair. It stands to reason that he inhumanely left your side and abandoned his newborn to connect with someone who was, to him, a huge sexual lure. They could have easily separated from the larger group.

After all the monstrous things he’s said and done, your telling him to respect you and terminate the ‘friendship’ will likely be ignored. He is a proven liar and secret keeper, so I would assume that the OW is still on the scene.

You can’t rely on him to do the right thing in any situation. You know what he is capable of.

Ok. I really appreciate everyone sharing their views, insights, experiences and theories. I think it is very easy to assume a sordid affair as soon as something goes wrong in a relationship you read about online and I wpuld probably think the same if I was reading this about someone else's relationship. @MsDogLady, I find your posts in particular very interesting but they seem to be getting further away from the life I am actually living right now. I may be wrong and face further heartbreak down the line, but I don't think this is what is going on.

My husband has clearly fucked up and treated me badly, but for 13 years out of a 14 year relationship he has been a wonderful partner and husband and a devoted father who had never given me any reason to doubt him. We've had our ups and downs but this is the first time in 14 years I can describe our relationship as properly on the rocks. I can't believe the man I know would just start fucking another woman at the first sign of cracks appearing in our marriage.

Yes, he's been dishonest, he's been unsupportive and unkind and made me feel pretty shitty, but this is not the norm in our marriage. And I should also say it hasn't been a solid year of him treating my badly, it's been a rollercoaster of good times and bad but I have presented the all bad stuff here as this is what I wanted advice on.

We had another long and emotional talk last night and he told me a lot of things about how he'd also been feeling which I had been completely blind to, but it seems I've been making him feel pretty shit too. He talked about the stress he was feeling when I was pregnant...he has his own business and he said that with number 3 on the way he'd never felt so much pressure to dig deep, work hard and make it a success to support us. We had to have building work done on our house before DD was born and it overran and was still being done when she was born. DD and I were then in hospital for a week as she was ill and he said the pressure he felt to look after our other two DC, get the house finished, support me and fit in hopsital visits nearly broke him. He said he felt like he was on the verge on a nervous breakdown but I was so absorbed in the baby I didn't appear to notice or care. He said that when he told me that he didn't want a third baby that was him trying to reach out and tell me how he was feeling but I shut him down. When DD was born he said he felt completely redundant because I was feeding on demand and because I'd been in hospital for a week, my other 2 were clingy to me and pretty much rejected him. He said he felt totally useless at home so he did what he felt he could do for us which was throw himself into his work and try and make a success of his business and with that came more networking. I viewed that as unsupportive but he felt he was trying to do the opposite and it was totally unappreciated by me. He says he does feel frustrated by the restrictions that having a baby places on us and the social side of his business has become a bit of escapism too. The OW thing he has apologised for. He has admitted he was dishonest about the friendship but knew that telling me about it at a time when things were so strained would make things worse so he didn't. He didn't know that an emotional affair was a think but acknowledges that there was a betrayal of trust. But he also claims that what I am imagining it to be is not what it is at all and although he admits to not being honest he denies an EA. He says he sees her at these events (they don't work together but there's a crossover of the industries they work), catch up over a drink among a group and chat about work stuff, they get on well and laugh together but he swears there are no cosy chats where he confides in her about the state of his marriage and she comforts him (this is what I said I imagine!). Her company are doing some work for him at the moment so they've seen a bit more of each other and he said he enjoys her company and he's realised there is an attraction there. I've asked him to terminate the friendship which he has agreed to but I guess we'll have to see what happens next.

I don't know. I know some people will be rolling their eyes and saying they can't believe I'm falling for his lies, but what he told me 'fits' more with what we're going through at the moment than the scenario of him fucking this other woman. Maybe I'm wrong and being naive but that is my instinct at the moment. I'll just have to see how things play out.

Sorry...epic post. I don't expect people to read it all but it has helped me to write it down.

It’s only 3 weeks. That’s very early days for working out how you feel. What he says is all about how he feels though. What does he say about how you feel? Does he acknowledge that what he said and did communicated he was on board with baby 3, until far too late? That that is his fault? That you feel he has had an affair, and are betrayed (how would he feel if you did this?) Hiw would he feel if you got up Friday night and left for the weekend so he had to manage everything with no help? Because you would be within your rights to do this.
I think you need to tease all this out during counselling and see if he can remember you are a person. I personally don’t think a husband should be able to expect a woman who has just had a baby to focus on him and how he is feeling, and he didnt get to check out and go hang with people who can chat amusingly as oppose to need dinner cooking and stories read and to be put to bed every 5 minutes for an hour. Basically id struggle to forgive too, but try the counselling, and be very honest with how you feel. I don’t think I could handle my husband making this about him, which is how he sounds from your last post or two.

@timeisnotaline, there is definitely more geound we need to cover. He still claims that he went along with baby number 3 because he knew it was what I wanted but acknowledges that although the idea originally came from me, the decision to have another baby was made by both of us. He also said that he wants me to understand that despite his clumsy way of articulating it, it was not the baby he didn't want, it was the added financial pressure, the restrictions of having a baby again when we were out the other side with our older two, and just added complications of a larger family. But stressed that he absolutely loves her.

And last night's conversation wasn't all about him...we both talked about how we were feeling but I've already put my side of the story on this thread so I just put his side across on my previous post.

OP please read Chump Lady,your husband is reading exactly from the cheaters script-I wouldn't tolerate living together with him. You don't opt out of family life when the going gets rough. If he has done it once do you really think he won't check out again when your children are older and in adolescence? Believe me you may think baby and childhood is hard and it sure as hell is but adolescence will make you remember toddlerhood with longing

@EKGEMS, which bit is reading from the script? Everything he said in that last really long post or stuff I've said before that?

He is minimising the relationship with OW, OP, the insistence that they were always in a group is a load of old bull; he admits the relationship was dodgy but hey, nothing happened even though he spent more time away with her than his own family.

His poor me story is again another ploy to take the light off him, he couldn't handle looking after two kids, and left you with an ill baby too; like a massive man child.

He has successfully geared you into one, believing nothing happened and two, take the blame for his awful behaviour.

He is not taking responsibility for it, I guess if you are willing to accept then you can maybe go on from here, I have no idea how you have any trust, worst of all, he has faced zero consequence.

The part where he feels he was overlooked and neglected when you were struggling with a challenging pregnancy,etc. Apologies for not quoting your thoughts verbatim. I just really feel for you having to hold the family together and suffering so much due to his behavior.