I've locked myself in the bedroom

[hoosie]

..and I'm forcing my husband to sleep in the living room. I'm just so fucking tired of his behaviour. I'm so tired I can't tell whether my reaction is OTT or not. I just don't want him following me everywhere and talking me into the ground.

This is on the back of a stupid argument but it's blown sky high. My husband has always undermined my parenting-I'm not sure why. We have been married for 10 years, we have two daughters aged 8 and 10. Both girls have electronic devices (iphones/macbooks). The eldest (who I will call Katie) also uses my kindle Last week Katie went on a sleepover with my kindle and returned with the screen smashed. She claims she has no idea how it happened. I wasn't mad because accidents happen we just agreed that she would do jobs around the house for me until she has recouped some of the money (she hasn't done any yet). The money wasn't the point for me-it's the principle of the thing. If you break something-regardless of it being an accident-you make restitution.

Tonight, she dropped her MacBook on the floor and it's now non-functional. This is in the context of her constantly dropping it or drinking/eating over it.

When she dropped I immediately knew it was dead. I didn't shout. I didn't raise my voice at all. I didn't actually feel angry, I just kind of resigned. My younger daughter immediately asked what would happen now and my response was "Well now Katie doesn't have a laptop". There was no sarcasm, no tone, nothing-just matter of fact. Katie asked me if I could repair it (I'm an IT Technician), my response was "no, it's not repairable". In truth I could repair it, but I didn't want to. After that Katie went to her room to have a cry and I got on with cleaning the kitchen.

I'm not a believer in shouting or raised voices but I do believe in consequences. The consequence for being careless with devices is that if you break them-you don't have a device to use. Am I being unreasonable?

My husband has a habit of getting in between me and our daughters. Every parenting decision I make is questioned. I knew that if he saw that Katie was upset he would immediately rush and console her regardless of context and I would be the 'bad' one. I don't know whether he just genuinely starts from the assumption that I am incompetent or whether it's just part of his pattern of manipulative behaviour.

To mitigate the likelihood that he would immediately start making a big fuss of her I explained to him what had happened. As part of the explanation I also said "I do have another laptop in work she can use but I don't want to tell her that. I think she should have to be without one for a month." (bear in mind I refurbish laptops for a living.) DH immediately started to tell me that 1 month without a laptop was unfair and how 1 month to a 10year old would seem like an eternity etc etc. Then he tells his usual tales of how he always lost/broke things as a kid and it was never his fault and he couldn't help it.

He feels a week should be sufficient. I told him I didn't agree. This was not acceptable to him.

An hour after that after the girls were in bed he came to me and asked me to go to Katie and tell her that I was not angry with her because she was worried that I was angry. In truth, I'm not angry. Just tired. Nothing in my voice or actions expressed anger. I know she's feeling guilty. She’s a normal kid and a normal response is regret at your actions. From my perspective, experiencing these sorts of emotions is part of life.

My husband likes to manage other people’s emotions. He likes to manage mine and the children's. I went to Katie's room, stroked her head, and kissed her goodnight for the second time.

He then tried to start an argument with me over the fact that I hadn't told her verbatim that "I wasn't angry". He says I am wrong for doing this. From his perspective she should not be left to wonder if her mother is angry. From my perspective, I haven't expressed anger. I've been calm, kind and patient in a sort of "these things happen-but still you have to deal with the consequences" kind of way. I feel that his response is to brush everything under the carpet.

My husband has this pattern of getting very intense over small things. He's very intense with me and the children. He likes to lecture and he has to be right. He will keep going all night over the most trivial things until I am so worn out I just capitulate. It's perplexing and exhausting.

For the first time in our marriage I've gone into our bedroom and locked the door. I just cannot bear another night long lecture (he calls it "wanting to talk"). Every time he wants "to talk" I end up miserable and even more resentful at the end of it while he feels smug and justified. Tonight, I don't have the energy. I refuse to back down. My whole marriage has been like this.

Tomorrow I will no doubt tell him I'm sorry again. I'll get a flurry of email essays and texts in work and demands to talk at home. I don't want to fucking talk anymore.

You've had plenty good advice about your husband.

Tonight, she dropped her MacBook on the floor and it's now non-functional. This is in the context of her constantly dropping it or drinking/eating over it

Can't you get something like this type of heavy duty case for her laptop and phone (and your kindle) if she's prone to dropping them?

www.mobilefun.co.uk/uag-macbook-pro-retina-13-inch-protective-case-black-56024

spessn.com/product/spessn-heavy-duty-series-hard-shell-protective-cover-case-apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-model-a1706-a1708-case-with-without-touch-bar-black/

Maybe also investigate why she's so "clumsy"

Hoosie I went through exactly the same as you " He's not phyiscally forceful but kind of creepily manipulative-hard to put into words. Otherwise ok I think" It's called Coercive control.

I don't think unless someone has been through it,has lived with that dread in the pit of your stomach when you hear the other person putting they're key in the frontdoor that they can understand just how soul destroying it really is!

You haven't done anything wrong and it has taken me years to realize that neither had I,I got away after 9 years,I had 2 very young DC.My life has changed beyond all recognition now,I've remarried to an amazing man and have 5DC and a very happy household and life.

I hope you find your way out of this relationship and find the happiness you and your DC deserve

You were cross. But instead of getting angry you put a massive weight on your dds shoulders thinking she’d ruined a seriously expensive piece of kit. That is actually quite passive aggressive.

My dd is 10 and I don’t believe in lying to her. I also would not have shouted and you are right, it does achieve nothing. However please don’t think that you are completely innocent in this situation.

The person you therefore need to apologise to tomorrow is your dd for lying.

As for your husband. He sounds controlling, very annoying and unable to read normal cues or take no for an answer. Things seem to be very difficult between you. Would he have reacted differently had you not lied to your dd?

Your marriage is a poor relationship role model to your children, what healthy and nurturing lessons are they learning from the two of you? For your children’s sake, this viscous cycle of his manipulation and your bottling things up to you explode, has to stop.

Your hatred for your H is showing (and he sounds hateful) but it can not continue, you need to challenge the toxicity in your relationship not ignore it.

This is who he is and all the handwringing in the world, isn’t going to change him.

Your DD clearly isn’t ready for the responsibility of having such expensive kit and instead of acknowledging that, you ignore it and get upset when that irresponsibility rears it’s head. Just because you can afford a MacBook, doesn’t mean she should have one.

The whole situation with him manipulating everyone’s emotions and your attempts at normality in a dysfunctional dynamic must be really confusing for your children.

What lessons do you want to teach your children and can you do that effectively within your relationship/ family dynamic?

I would suggest if Katie keeps breaking equipment, she's too young to have it. I doubt she understands how much it costs to replace.

Your husband is just a bully. You sound utterly ground down. I would go and see a solicitor to see where you stand. Easier said than done though.

I don't think lying to your daughter is right, and choosing bit to tell her that you aren't angry with her, when you know she's worried about it, makes me feel quite unsettled if I'm honest.

So I see why your husband disagrees with your approach, though I think he's gone over the top in trying to get you to change your view.

The gender comment you made speaks volumes to me. You seem to feel you lack a role in the household, and don't seem to react well when he treads on what you see as your domain (here parenting, but you e also made comments re cooking etc).

Parenting should be a partnership, and where views on discipline are radically different, a compromise needs to be made. It's not right that his way should override yours, but equally, yours shouldn't necessarily override his.

Ultimately though, something needs to change in your marriage. You keep describing him as manipulative and creepy - I'm sensing very little love and affection there. You seem a tad cold towards your daughter (refusing to tell her you weren't angry with her etc), and don't speak affectionately about your husband, blast him for effectively being too feminine and soft. I'm not getting warm feelings coming from you at all. Is his nagging because he feels you are too cold, or do you think being cold is a survival technique you've used because you aren't happy? Whatever is the case, it's clear thst something needs to change.

And as for Katie, I'd either get her to do chores to 'pay for your time' in repairing her laptop, or get her to do it herself, under close suoervision/tuition from you, so she has to put her own work on to repair it, but it's also a good opportunity for some quality one on one time together.

sleeplikeasloth -agree with everything you say. I got the same impression from the op. Great analysis .

OP, you did absolutely nothing wrong; you sounds like a good mother, so what if you never got angry, it wasn't your macbook was it, now wee Katie is without one and yeah for a month so she has a consequence, why do you have to jump up and down in anger about it, you handled it fine.

Who actually runs out replacing their kid's electronics when they drop them, if anyone does, they are not parenting properly.

Your issue is not your child, it's your husband, he sounds like he has to have everything his way, I feel very sorry for you as this is completely needless, your children are also being subjected to this OTT reactions; I think it's time you sat him down and actually told him you are so worn down with it you want to discuss separation.

my response was "no, it's not repairable". In truth I could repair it, but I didn't want to......I don't want to hurt him by blankly saying "don't do that" as maybe it's part of him so I just disengage

It seems you've ended up not saying anything about how you really feel.
It's fine to feel angry or pissed off - and to let your dd know how it really makes you feel when she doesn't take care of stuff.
It's fine to tell her the truth about the repair and let her know she will have to wait a month.

It's fine to tell your husband to shut up, to stop undermining you and patronizing you.
It's fine to totally blow you lid at him and let him know exactly how you feel about his behaviour.

You need to stop taking responsibility for their feelings and allowing that to silence you.

A decade in and it hasn't got any better - you're almost broken.
Use what energy you've got to get out and away from him.
I don't think there's anything to be saved here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles

An abuser doesn’t have to be loud or violent op. Refusing to drop a subject until he’s ground you down is also abuse.

For the record almost exactly the same thing happened to my dd. She lost her laptop for 6 months until I could afford a replacement

First - on the issue of the laptop, it's pretty straightforward. You're right he's wrong. Consequences are needed, while still showing love. You MAY wish to compromise on the amount of time she goes without the laptop, depending on how you judge her remorse. If she's learned her lesson, there's an opportunity to show your love by forgiving/doing something nice, as long as you know she will appreciate it. It's a judgement call, but the important thing is for her to learn the lesson that actions have consequences.

On the rest - it's a deep and long issue with your relationship, but the one thing I would urge you is to try to NOT disengage. For the sake of your marriage, you have to tell him about those feminine things, whatever they are. You have to tell him that you will not stop talking or cut him off but that you need to do it at your own pace. Reassuring him that you will address the issue, but in smaller, bite size issues, and that you will listen to him, might make him be able to step back a bit. Say: if you care for me, give me some space. that's how you show it to me that you care.
Then, separately, you have to explain to him many many times, over and over, how his actions put you down, make you feel like a bad mother, etc. He won't get it at first. he won't get it the second time. Just keep at it. Say it again and again. I know I needed to hear it many many times (on different issues, not necessarily raising kids), to finally get it though my head. But please don't disengage, and don't ignore the bad sex life. Look at the causes - search for them together. Say to him - look can we agree that we have this issue? can we agree to search for answers openly. Please be open to consider that you are doing something wrong, and I am doing something wrong in response. It's never one partner - it's always the dance. Sure, one partner may have more issue, more blame,. but how the other responds is equally important. With someone else it may very well function, and no problem. My point is only that it's the related action and reaction that together produce the unwanted result.
Good luck - sorry for being vague, but the issues are too deep to address one by one in a post. Therapy is definitely something that could help. Maybe the "Mating in captivity" book?

I think the lap top is a minor issue. I think he is abusive to you. That is what you need to address.

Personally, I think you were being a bit passive aggressive to your daughter. She made a mistake, and some anger, and some consequences, were perfectly reasonable. However, by withdrawing and being so calm, she was probably waiting for the axe to fall. So either, you needed to be cross or you needed to clarify that you weren't but that nonetheless there would be consequences. I also don't believe that you really weren't cross because if that was the case, you wouldn't have said that you didn't want to fix it nor would you told your DH there's another option but that you don't want her to know.

Having said all that, his behaviour is pretty awful and don't blame you for being worn down. More importantly, it's not clear to me how you could be married to someone you consider creepy. By definition, I think people you think are creepy are people you don't spend time with.

Oh God, this has brought back awful memories of my ex-h. He always 'wanted to talk' usually about my failings as a wife, mother and human being. He would talk and talk at me all day and night until I was so exhausted and beaten down that I agreed with whatever he was saying in order to get him to shut up and let me sleep.

It took a long time for me to see this as abusive and a long time to get free of it but it remains glorious not to be talked at and and criticised by Mr 'Do it my way or do it wrong'.

The only resolution for me was to leave.

What agentjohnson said. Ten times over.

I agree with others that you need to look at your own behaviour in this. You're seemingly robotic in your responses to your family. I can understand why someone would become frustrated with you or confused as to your feelings or intentions.

It sounds as if your actions stem from a deep feeling of unhappiness.

Honestly, my advice would be to consider separation. The whole situation sounds toxic.

OP the fact you are an IT technician and fix stuff doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to fix it. You might, great. But your daughter understanding for a short ehile that carelessness or accidents with tech might mean you don't get to use tell, is no bad thing IMHO.

If you are not generally angry or shouty o can't see why your child should be waiting for an axe to fall!

I don't think you need to worry about your actions in this. You need to stop yoir husband abusing you.

Your whole marriage has been like this?
LTB
Do not get couple's counselling - it would be a terrible, terrible idea with this man.

OP what you have described here, the overall dynamic of the relationship your in, sounds (screams) coercive control and emotional and psychological abuse. It took me seven years of walking on eggshells, working myself into the ground, twisting and changing myself until I Bearley recognised myself anymore - desperate to avoid his disappointment /gain approval etc it's so insidious, the subtle comments that drip and eat away at your self esteem, the super parent I'm-the wonder-dad behaviour that leaves you to do the actual hard proper parenting work with boundaries and consequences, feeling disliked especially in contrast with the other parent doing everything to be favourable and liked - despite this not being in the children's interest as it's awful parenting.
Don't engage in couples counselling, he may manipulate it so that you feel falsely it's your fault.
Do research coercive control and consider your options in separating /divorcing so that you and the children are not further subjected to and damaged by it.