Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What does my wife mean by this?

75 replies

user685685865 · 06/02/2019 09:14

Dear Mumsnetters,

I’ve lurked for a while but would appreciate some advice. I’m after some different perspectives on what my wife of 10 years means by something she said.

Firstly, some context. She had an abusive upbringing, which has affected our relationship in lots of ways. We’ve had a fair amount of heartache to deal with, and we’ve supported each other as best we can.

She’s admitted that she was emotionally abusive towards me in the beginning, and I was too young really to recognise and push back. So many of our day to day patterns now are negative. She doesn’t trust me, and I’m scared of her. She’s very defensive, and I tend to retreat. We never really communicated properly.

I have made some mistakes. Last year I became good friends with a female colleague at work, and which, because I was scared, I didn’t tell my wife everything about. This friendship helped me realise why I was unhappy - and that I had been for a few years - and my wife and I started talking about it. It came out of the blue for her.

I didn’t lie exactly, but I withheld some details, and deleted some texts, for self preservation. We knew each others’ phone codes, and whilst I’ve never checked my wife’s, it turns out she was checking mine.

I understood my wife’s issue to be the secrecy of the friendship, not the friendship itself, so I tried to bring it out into the open. One weekend my wife and son were away (separately, she was on a uni reunion), so, in a misguided effort to put the friendship on a more normal footing, I asked my wife before she left whether she would mind if I asked my friend if she wanted to go out for a few beers that evening. My wife said yes, I think you should do it.

Big mistake. It turns out that it was actually a test - and I failed. I shouldn’t have gone at all. My wife now sees it as a betrayal, and this friendship as an emotional affair.

I don’t think it is, but have never dismissed her point of view. I was secret after all. But rather than turning away from the marriage, and seeking solace in another, I turned towards it - we’re now communicating like we never have before, and in some ways are closer than we ever have been.

It was my idea to try Relate, and it was helpful. We didn’t resolve all the issues, but we did create a bit of space and trust to be able to talk more rationally.

Fast forward to now. My wife cannot get past the drinks that summer evening. She sees it as the point at which I ‘changed her life forever and stopped caring about [her] and our family.’

We’re still talking about our marriage, what we want out of life and how we want to live it. Neither of us has made any firm decisions about the future - well I certainly haven’t, I want to make sure we’ve tried everything before calling it a day. I love her and want the best for her.

But today she said two things that troubled me. First, that she can’t show me love if she doesn’t know where she stands. And when I said she does know where she stands - ie we’re married, we love each other, but are trying to resolve our differences - she said that actions speak louder than words.

To my mind, she’s putting conditions on her love for me, and those conditions are related to how I act. So essentially, she’s saying she’ll only love me if I behave how she wants.

Is that right? All thoughts are welcome.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Sugarpiehoneyeye · 06/02/2019 10:15

Well OP, I don't think you've had an emotional affair, but I do think you are riding an emotional roller coaster, time to get off my friend, life is too short !

Missingstreetlife · 06/02/2019 10:21

Back to relate

Missingstreetlife · 06/02/2019 10:22

If you are lucky you get unconditional love from your parents.
Everyone else has conditions, what are yours?

PolkaDoting · 06/02/2019 10:27

You say you want to try everything before you end it.

Why?

Marriages where you have to try that bloody hard never end in long term happiness for both partners.

origamiunicorn · 06/02/2019 10:30

Sorry but how is a friendship with someone of the opposite sex an "emotional affair" can't believe some of these replies in 2019! Glad to see some common sense on here though.

Riley73 · 06/02/2019 10:38

Yes I realised after I posted . It was my first ever posting ,and wasn't sure what I was doing ..im still not , but I'll figure it all out .

MattFreisWeatherReport · 06/02/2019 10:43

in a misguided effort to put the friendship on a more normal footing, I asked my wife before she left whether she would mind if I asked my friend if she wanted to go out for a few beers that evening

Hmm, this is the point you lost me, OP. I mean, who does that? You feel your wife is misinterpreting the friendship, so to 'put it on a more normal footing', you invite your friend out for drinks on the very weekend your wife is away and the house is empty? Really??

I think at best you're minimising, and actually I think you're attempting to rewrite history given that you didn't (I presume) end up in bed with your friend after all.

If she doesn't actually know all this, I think your wife at the very least has a good sense of it, and no matter how much good work you've both put in with counselling and improved communication, she ultimately won't be able to trust you until you're totally honest about your feelings for this woman at the time, even if you've now decided to prioritise your marriage.

I don't approve of 'tests' in relationships, but I can see that for your wife this came from a place of wanting to see you actively 'choose' her, and you didn't. You can't expect it not to be a problem.

SpeedbirdFoxtrot · 06/02/2019 10:47

Hmmm. It isn't good that you're scared. And the more I read this the more it sounds as though she wants to be at war with you.

I don't think confiding in a member of the sex you're attracted to will always constitute an emotional affair. A woman my DP works with discovered her DH was cheating on her and she'd often talk to him. Because he was nice and approachable.

As for deleting the messages, whether that is a sneaky action depends on the content. I became aware that DC's dad was keeping tabs on me and so I would often delete messages to and from my best friend because I was scared of his reaction to me feeling suffocated. If the messages were flirty, then yes that does edge into EA territory.

Her behaviour sounds odd (and ridiculous) to say the least. If she had an issue with you going out for beers with this woman, she should have said that. Setting up some ridiculous test where she agrees and you somehow realise she might be upset is an impossible task for you to meet. Claiming it was a 'life-changing' experience in a negative sense is incredibly dramatic. That's why I feel she wants to be at war with you.

You not meeting the terms of her test RE the drinks situation may be what she means by actions speak louder than words. If (as an alternative) she's somehow hinting that she wants some grand gesture, that too is quite childish. If there's a particular action she's expecting, it does need to be vocalised.

As a PP has said, most relationships do come with conditions on love. At a very basic level, these conditions may mean what most of us hold to be moral (not cheating, not keeping huge secrets etc). Then there will be whatever makes you compatible. In essence, all this is what we may want from relationships as individuals. If your wife is unwilling to communicate what she wants, she's not giving you a chance to strengthen your relationship with her. You're free to not give her what she wants if she's being OTT, but you can't move forward unless she provides some clarity.

I've been in your position and it did come to an end. It felt as though my DP wanted to be a perennial victim within our relationship. No action would ever be good enough, and the slightest hint of a resolution would result in a new drama somehow arriving. Or, as is the same in your case, the resurrection of an old one.

I don't think her emotional abuse has ended. Try Relate if you feel that's an appropriate avenue. Otherwise, I'd also be tempted to consider whether you're better off separating.

Miane · 06/02/2019 10:50

Sorry but how is a friendship with someone of the opposite sex an "emotional affair" can't believe some of these replies in 2019

Origami it’s not the friendship that’s the issue.

It was a secret friendship.
He deleted texts
Even when his wife found out about the friendship he withheld information.

You can surely see why she had concerns?

My DH has female friends and I have male friends. No problem on either side.

We’d both find secrecy, lying and hiding things a problem though.

Longtalljosie · 06/02/2019 10:55

I think a lot of the people here have never been in an abusive relationship so can’t understand how it changed your behaviour. This is what walking on eggshells looks like.

Take a step back OP. If it was a friend who showed you those texts would you think they were inappropriate in any way? And bugger her stupid secret test. She said yes, do it. You checked she was cool with it. There is nothing there to apologise for.

DustyMaiden · 06/02/2019 10:59

Why did you choose to see this women when your wife and DS we’re away. Why did you feel the need to mention they were in different places?

chillpizza · 06/02/2019 11:06

If my dh kept a friend secret, deleted texts, then withheld information and then apparently want to go out for drinks only when I was away while I would be very hmmm.

If I wouldn’t show my dh a text I’m sending to a male friend (not that he would ever ask) then it’s an inappropriate text unless it mentions dhs birthday present or such like.

Croeso78 · 06/02/2019 11:09

You are trying! and posting on here looking for advise shows how much you are invested in this.
I have been in a similar place, 16 years of emotional abuse, out of it now! and I can breath for a change! I totally understand why you would delete messages even if were normal friendly ones...you are walking on egg shells and cannot be your true self.
Try opening up more, be who you want to be as long as you are not hurting anyone, she needs to accept you can make choices in life, one of them is having friends! no matter what sex they are!
Be kind to yourself

Kismetjayn · 06/02/2019 11:13

@chillpizza it's important not to forget what happened to lead up to that point.

If your DH scrutinised all of your texts, criticised all your friendships and found ways to interpret all your messages as cheating, even work related ones ('he asked you to come in early! Why did he ask you to come in early? It must be so you can have a secret affair!' 'why did you ask his opinion on a firewall? You should be asking me that!') You might well delete a text that says 'have a nice weekend x' just because it has an X on the end.

If she was perfectly reasonable until he started hiding things, sure, but from what he says, that's not the case.

chillpizza · 06/02/2019 11:19

@Kismetjayn

He didn’t know she was reading his texts until she told him from what his said so had no reason to believe she would see them but they still concerned him enough to delete just in case.

I think there is wrong on both sides and they likely should just separate but I don’t believe the husband is the innocent little man his making himself out to be. She doesn’t trust him for a reason and it took another women to open his eyes really.

AryaStarkWolf · 06/02/2019 11:21

I would also like to know what was in the texts that you deleted, if they were bad enough to delete then I could see why your wife might be put off by you wanting to go out for drinks with her

Kismetjayn · 06/02/2019 11:34

@chillpizza my mistake- I assumed as he knew she had the phone code, he knew she was checking.

Changedname3456 · 06/02/2019 11:37

It doesn’t really matter whether it was or wasn’t an EA. He’d still have failed her test and he’d still be trapped in an emotionally abusive relationship.

The use of previous abuse, by her, to excuse her actions towards the OP from the beginning of their relationship? Not on. Checking his phone and messages? Not on. Setting up little “tests” for him to fail? Not on.

OP, I would seriously consider leaving at this point. I’m a man, like you, who was in an emotionally abusive relationship. Mine turned physically abusive from my exGF. It took an attack using a weapon to make me wake up, stop making excuses for her and realise “we” couldn’t be rescued. Don’t wait as long as I did.

AryaStarkWolf · 06/02/2019 11:41

It doesn’t really matter whether it was or wasn’t an EA

Of course it matters. If he was having an EA with someone why on earth would he think it would be OK to go out socialising with her when his wife was out of town? That to me says maybe he's not being very honest in how he's describing his relationship with his wife. He's blaming her an awful lot

ISmellBabies · 06/02/2019 11:48

You need to take s responsibility. You had an emotional affair which you are minimising. Confiding in a female colleague about your marriage problems and deleting texts to them is not an innocent friendship. Actions do speak louder than words and romantic love is conditional on the behaviour of those in the relationship. You sound like you want to make your marriage problems her fault, even though they are at leadt 50% your fault. You can't have an emotional affair, delete texts etc, and then say " but I'm better now, you're ruining the relationship by not trusting me"!

LaughingCow99 · 06/02/2019 11:48

Has she got any help for being abusive? And setting traps!!! Very unhealthy.

You didn't have an emotional affair, you had a friend that you were afraid to tell your wife about because of her issues.

I think you deserve better and agree with everyone that says she sounds like hard work.

LaughingCow99 · 06/02/2019 11:50

I have talked about my relationship/s with friends, male and female. I'm not having emotional affairs with them all. How ridiculous.

Longtalljosie · 06/02/2019 12:01

The only person who has called this an emotional affair is the wife. Are we taking abusers’ word as gospel now? Or only the female ones?

SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad · 06/02/2019 12:05

I'm sorry, mate, but I really think you need to get out of this marriage. It is toxic. I've been where you are, and please believe me when I tell you that it always gets worse, not better.

I'm going to assume that there was nothing in the messages that you deleted that was objectively inappropriate (i.e. in the eyes of an impartial observer - NOT in your wife's eyes). Ignore the people on here who will tell you that you had an emotional affair, or that you are to blame for deleting messages. They are likely to be people who have never experienced, and simply don't understand, the dynamics of an abusive relationship. How a perfectly innocent smile and "good morning" to an acquaintance at the school gate can be taken by your partner to indictate that you are having, or planning, an affair. They don't understand that you spend your entire life walking on eggshells, never knowing what will trigger the next explosion or accusation, and constantly looking for potential triggers and trying to head them off. In those circumstances, deleting innocent messages that would cause your partner to unleash another tirade is nothing more than self-preservation. It's normal for a victim of abuse to be hyper-vigilant in that way. Please don't let some of the posters on here persuade you otherwise - they don't understand.

Equally, it is not an emotional affair to have a friendship with somebody of the opposite sex. It's a healthy and natural thing to do. So long as you aren't crossing a line into inappropriate behaviour, you are allowed to have friends. Your wife's attempts to prevent that are a clear indicator of an abusive personality.

So, this is not your fault. It probably doesn't feel that way to you, because that's what abusers do. They mess with your head, and persuade you that it truly is your fault. I spent years and years trying to find the magic bullet that would persuade my ex wife that I loved her, and only her. J can see why you're trying to do the same thing. You took vows. Made promises. You love her. This marriage matters to you.

I'm sorry, mate - the magic bullet doesn't exist. Because you are not the problem. The problem is in her head. And it doesn't get better unless she realises that, and commits to taking real action to fix it. Which they almost never do. And you can waste a very, very long time hoping that the change is coming.

I've lived it. Years of abuse. It starts out with low level stuff - a snide remark here and there. And it escalates until you're policing your thoughts and actions all the time. You don't want to look up from the ground when you're at the school gate, in case she thinks you're looking at another woman. You choose not to socialise with particular people (jointly or apart), because it's just not worth the price you'll pay later. Tests are set, and failed - because theres no way to pass. The number of times I was challenged to look into her eyes, so she could see if there was love in my eyes! And you take it. Because youlove her, and you don't remember what is normal any more. Or you were young when you got together, so you never got the chance to find out what was normal. But it goes on getting worse. Eventually, with my ex, it became physical. You can't keep lying to yourself after that. When, even after she assaulted you and you ended up at hospital gettong checked for fractures, and the Police have been involved, she demands to know how you are going to change so she is never in that position again. They don't get better.

You feel so very alone. But you're not. 1 in 3 people affected by domestic abuse is male. 1 in 6 men will experience domestic abuse during their life. There's a lot of us out there. And help is available. Start by calling The Mankind Initiative on 01823 334244. Talk it through with someone.

What she's doing isn't love. And it's a crime. There's a better life out there. I'm 3 years out from it, and I've never been happier. Stop trying to fix what can't be fixed. Raise your head, recognise that you deserve better than this, and reclaim your freedom.

Longtalljosie · 06/02/2019 12:09

SlightlyMisplaced - great post. I’m going to step away from this now as even 16 years on I prefer not to think about it

Swipe left for the next trending thread