Divorce Contact Issues

[CF43]

Hi, Yes me again,

I am so useless at this. I am never getting involved with another man again, mindless sex maybe in the future but never ever getting married again.

Yesterday I started a thread about contact, me and my ex have a contact arrangement meeting this thursday but I have cancelled it and moved to feb now as we can't agree on anything.

I want him to be reasonable, he sees me as a money grabing cow. He announced tonight that he wants our son to attend his dad's 80th Birthday party near to his parents 200 miles away. I don't want him to have our son overnight at the moment as he is still young and this is a big distance, so I have said he can take him to his mum's and as I have work till 11am on saturday I will follow. After the party/dinner event which I am not invited to, my ex will bring him back to my mum's which is not far from his as they both live in the same county.

Do you think I am being funny about this, should I have just said yes go on then take him for the weekend.
My problem or concern is once he starts having him overnight stays I can't then say he can't have him again. I's sorry to keep going on about this it's just it really makes me want to scream because he hasn't done anything with him till now. I know I will have to give in eventually and let me stay overnight but can't things be taken at a slow pace so everyone can get used to things.

Tell me what you think please, going mad here.

Has anyone else been in this situation and come out the other side.

How old is your dc?

He is 7, but he has only been used to living with me, his dad comes and goes when he feels like it which was one of the reasons for divorce.

I know your going to say he's old enough, just think things shouldn't be rushed as they don't have a proper father son relationship as yet.

It's his dad. Let them go & build a relationship away from you. You've cancelled the contact meeting because you couldn't agree? Surely that's the point of the meeting? It sounds like you don't want to let go of your son. Let them have their relationship & be glad your son has a dad that wants to have a relationship with him.

7?! I thought that you were going to say that he is a newborn, breastfed baby.

If it was around the corner or not 200 miles away I would, but 4 hours by car three motorways that's alot of trust i haven't got.

Sorry but he's his father. He has as much say as you do, you don't have to like it but that's the case. The longer you drag this out the harder it will be for your child. Also, the family party sounds nice for him to be invited to.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I've had a lot of experience of both sides of the argument but bottom line is, it's his child too. And just because he acted one way when you were together doesn't mean he'll be like that now. You're standing between your son and his father having a relationship IMO.

I think is unreasonable to not allow a father to take his son away for an overnight visit to his grandparents. Exceptions of course for BF and SEN etc.

Ultimately it is pretty likely that the father will get contact that involves an overnight. Overtly resisting it is probably not going to advance your case to minimise this. Particularly when clouded with concern about maintenance payments.

Children should have reasonable contact with their parents and preventing it can cause alienation. This will impact on your son. You need to do the right thing regardless of how your ex behaves

But that's just it he does, he goes away for two weeks for work and doesn't ring him, he's only doing this so he can be seen with his family as a doting dad but he isn't.

You don't the history and maybe your right but this man will in two weeks time go away again and not contact his son during the time he's away and i have to pick up the pieces. again.

But the pieces will have to be picked up whether he has him overnight at home or overnight 200 miles away. The distance won’t make a difference.

I’m sorry that he’s not an involved Dad, but as PP have said, a court would likely order at least one overnight a week and two overnights eow.

Why don't they have a good relationship?
How long have you been separated
Do you have concerns about your exs ability to care for your son?
If he has lived with your son for years and there are no concerns around him being with his dad then a court would expect him to have him overnight. If it will be going to family court being unreasonable without justification doesn't usually go down well.

So apart from being emotionally bullied for the past 7 years i'm just expected to hand him over and let him get on with it.

He doesn't want him his just being awkward. we have been married for 9 years but my son is just 7 during that time my husband who didn't even attend the registry office to name him and said call him what you like, has never done a single thing to help me or my son, not bathed him, fed him, changed him, even played with him, until i filed for divorce. Then he wants to get interested in him when it suits him. He still goes away and ignores him if its a weekend on his own or with work.

200 miles is a big journey if something goes wrong, my son has to have daily medication otherwise he get's very ill, if he won't give it to him then problems occur very quickly. He is not self medicating at 7 that is just wrong.

Well isn’t it good for your son that he is interested now? Yes it’s really shit that you have had to do all the hard work and he is stepping in to play dad of the year but having your son surrounded by people who love him is good surely?

I suspect there is more to it - has he had him overnight before? The bottom line is it’s about your son, not you saying that he can or can’t have contact. Think about what outcome would be good (one night mid-week and every other weekend). Just because your ex had been unpleasant to you doesn’t mean the courts will prevent access to your son, and they won’t look kindly on you preventing contact.

Why did you cancel the meeting? How are you going to arrange anything if you dont meet to discuss?

OP I understand your reasons for being concerned about his parenting and why this is so difficult for you. The problem is that you are involved in legal negotiations about contact which may well end up in court. This will allow you the opportunity to make your case but he will also be able to make his case, which may not be fair, kind or entirely true.

It is fair to say that he will make the points other PPs have made about contact being necessary for your sons wellbeing. But he will also say you have obstructed his ability to parent and behaved unreasonably in refusing contact. He will use this an example along with your refusal to meet and discuss it with him in mediation. He is probably going to paint a picture of you that is negative and unfair, based on this. He will argue he never gives his son medication because you never let him and become stressed when he suggests it.

Your ex is an adult with a job. He is taking your son to a weekend with other adults. It is reasonable to accept they can manage his medication and look after him. A seven year old is capable of coping with a long car journey. That’s an objective and reasonable perspective.

That’s my best advice OP and it does have your interests at its heart. I realise you are angry with this man and have reason to be angry. But anger is a powerful emotion which can be destructive and self defeating. Try to manage it, don’t feed it and try not to act on it.

It is so very hard when you have done all the work to this point. But ex is allowed a relationship with your son. He will no doubt cock up to start with because he doesn't know the routine etc. But you have to put your concerns to one side I'm afraid.

Ex left me and moved in with ow. The kids went straight into eow contact. And they sleep on his bedroom floor. It isnt right. But I know I get no say in it. He also has nothing to do with them between eow. No phone calls nothing. He worked away for the three years before he left. So the children are use to him just dropping in and out of their lives.

What concerns you most. Could you get him to set reminder on his phone for meds and get ds to phone you at bedtime. Try and think how to ease your worries.

Oh I have work training to go to and having just started the job I had to re-schedule the appointment is now 5th feb.

I wanted to force him to make the financial arrangments first as he's holding that back. My husband can't have him in the week for overnight its just not possible, he goes to work at 5.30am in the morning.

I'm going to suggest he phone contact him mid week, Friday 4pm to 7pm so he has him for dinner and then he can have him saturday 8am to 1pm every other weekend to start with. I work Saturday mornings in the term time so he can have him or not i have other people who are willing to help out.

His job demands he goes away at 24hr notice so any plans we make are subject to change anyway as I never know when/how he is going away for how long.
Then if he can cope with that he can have him Friday night to saturday 1pm eventually.

If he keeps dumping him with mates and goes out on a cycle ride then that's not him having contact.

its clear you want everyone to say you are doing the right thing. You are not. You are preventing adequate contact and for your son to have a relationship with his father. A court would likely give far more contact (inc overnights) that you are 'offering'. Sounds like if your ex would agree to whatever financial arrangements you want you would be more willing on the contact, in which case that's just you trying to dictate access arrangements to purely suit you, not for your son.
At 7, he should be allowed to go to visit his grandparents with his dad and you are wrong to prevent it

Essentially OP MillyMol is right. You are expected to agree and facilitate contact to meet the needs of your son. Not based on financial wants of the parents. It’s your job as parents to make it work.

As parents you are expected to find ways around issues like work commitments not use them as a reason to limit contact. That applies to you both. He may find flexibility from his employer as a single dad not available when married. He can learn to do things. He is allowed to arrange baby sitters or child care. Things may move out of your control if you dig in.

If you don’t do this the courts will and they have experience with parents, male and female whose jobs make it awkward but not impossible. Intransigence might make the outcome difficult for you.

PPs are right: you need to completely separate the financial arrangements from agreements about contact. Children have a right to a relationship with both parents and, whatever has happened in the past, your ex is now attempting to do that. Please don’t let your hurt at how your ex has treated you get in the way of that, both for you and your son.

What you’re offering sounds like contact arrangements for a tiny, breastfed baby. Your DS is 7. That’s not a reasonable offer. EOW would let your son build a relationship with his father and his father’s family. Please give him the chance to have that.

You will need to proceed on the basis that your ex is a grown adult who can competently look after (and medicate) his 7 year old son. Maybe he’ll surprise you.

You are very much in the wrong here, I'm afraid OP, on several levels. You appear to be allowing your hatred of your ex to trump your son's best interests. A few things:

1. It is not okay to restrict contact until your ex signs up to the financial settlement that you want. Your child is not a pawn or a weapon, to be used to extract financial concessions. Contact and finances are separate issues. If you insist on using your child as a weapon, by restricting access in order to "force him to make financial arrangements", you'd better be prepared for a Judge to rip you a new one. That's putting your financial interests ahead of your son's wellbeing, and is not the behaviour of a good parent.

1. You are equal parents. Now go back and read that again. And then read it out loud. Equal. The while tone of everything you've written fails to understand that basic point. You don't get to dictate what happens. Your son has an absolute right to a meaningful relationship with both his parents. Unless you can get your head around that, you risk losing primary custody altogether, because children need to be in the care of a parent who puts their needs first, and actively encouraged a positive relationship with the other parent.

1. Your son is 7. There is no reason why he should not be staying overnight with his dad. There is no a court in the land will endorse your suggested arrangements- you are doing untold damage to your son when you stand in the way of him having proper, quality time with his dad. That means time doing activities, time doing homework, bedtime, chilling together, and every other part of parenting. Undermining your son's relationship with his dad is parental alienation. And that's a form of child abuse.

1. Your ex is the child's father. When it's his time, he can make his own decisions about what they do together. If he wants to visit family, he can. You don't get to control that. Unless there is a compelling reason - underpinned by evidence- to show that your ex is an unfit parent, he has to be free to make his own parenting decisions. Get used to it.

1. Refusing to meet to discuss things when you disagree is not helpful. You are going to disagree about many more things before your son is an adult. You both need to learn - quickly - how to manage those disagreements, and negotiate to find a way through. Otherwise, you are you g to find that life is one long series of court battles. Kids can thrive following a divorce, but their chances of doing so are greatly hampered when there is ongoing parental conflict. Find a way to manage disagreements. That starts by sitting down and talking. You need to be willing to truly listen, and to compromise. As equal parents.

I know that sounds harsh, but sometimes we all need to hear hard truths. The stance you are taking is actively working against the best interests of your son. I'm sure you wouldn't choose to do that, but it is what you're doing. Divorce is a really hard time - the one rule that should always guide everything you do is this: love your child more than you hate your ex. Put them first. Always.

You're not doing that right now. But it's a good opportunity to reset your approach, and get things to a more constructive place.

For your son's sake, I hope you take that opportunity.

But I do put him first. it's me that picks him up when his dad let him down because he's gone away with work and forgotten about him, it's me that tucks him up at night when he's crying his heart out because dad has forgotten to phone him (won't answer the phone).

I'm not a bad person here and I want him to have contact with his son but you can't go around forgetting to pick him up or not phoning him without leaving an impact on him.

I'm willing to let him have him overnight and for longer periods during the holidays. we haven't discussed it yet because it's not happening, we all live in the same house at the moment so he can take him when ever he wants. He doesn't though, he has him for his allotted him then ignores him the rest. IN THE SAME HOUSE. How is that being a good dad to completely ignore him not say hello had a good day got any homework.

So I can understand what you are saying and I agree financial and contact are two seperate issues. But this man is saying we can't have any money to live in a decent house, we can't have any money to pay for food, clothing and electric bills. So how are we supposed to live, eat and keep warm when we haven't go anything.

I work and get by on benfits but at the end of month there is nothing left, nothing for emergencies. My family are old and live a long long way away so can't help, it's down to me and without any assistance from his dad we are going to struggle big time.
So being fair and letting him see his son is the least of my worries, it's how are we going to cope with the rest of the time.
I don;t live in a city I live in a area that is not great for work and would have to travel myself to find work or re-locate. It's not all one sided here we do have a right to have a roof over our heads and money to eat and be warm.
That's all.

FFS your son is 7 no 7months old. He's quite capable of going away with his dad overnight, in fact I'd bet he'd love it. Stop trying to control your ex via your son. Kids are smart, and your son will soon realise that it's you manipulating the situation and resent you for it. Boys need their fathers and you have NO right to stop this. As others have said, get a grip of yourself and separate your issues from your son's access to his parent.

I thought you were talking about a baby not a 7 year old!

You actually do need to get a grip - if this goes to court you will have a different ring in your nose. What you're doing could be perceived very badly in court.

Your issues are not your son's issues - let him have a relationship with his dad.

OP, I understand how hard this is for you. What does your son want!?Nowhere have you said. This is important, it’s not about you or your H, it’s about your boy.

I think you should take legal advice, actually, and maybe ask for this thread to be moved to the legal board?

OP, this isn’t about what you are willing to let him have. Now that you are no longer together you are both equal parents. It’s not up to you to decide what he is and isn’t allowed, it doesn’t work like that.

While you may end up as the parent with primary residency, the fact remains that he is an equal parent to you even if you have done most of the parenting up until now.

If you went to court they would likely award a minimum of two nights a week and every other weekend contact, and while that may not currently be something which is possible and may not be what he seeks, bear in mind that the courts will rule what is in the best interests of the child, without any consideration what so ever for the financial implications.

I appreciate that you have done the parenting until now, but now you are no longer together you cannot decide whether he is or isn’t allowed to have his own son overnight. The courts take a very, very dim view of that.

And there are numerous parents on here who will attest to the fact that divorce was actually what made parents of their ex’s because they had to do it or risk losing the relationship with their children. As hard as it is you’re going to have to let this one play itself out,because although you have been there to do all the parenting on your own until now,this might actually be the wakeup call he needs to parent his own child.

FWIW when me and my eXH split up I was the primary parent by far as I’d been a SAHM,he commuted for work and so DS was predominantly attached to me. Although I will state here that ex wasn’t a bad parent by any stretch but my DS’ primary attachment was to me.

The first new year we had split we were still living in the same house and he wanted to take DS to his family for new year. I had already agreed 50/50 with him and had always maintained (and still do) that DS could see either of us whenever he wanted. I didn’t ever want to be one of those parents who dictated when my own son’s father could see him.

But oh my God when I agreed to let him go away for new year all hell broke loose among some within my social circle. People saying how I should put my foot down and say no, how it wasn’t right him being away from me for so long even though the same people wouldn’t have batted an eyelid if it had been the other way around, I stuck to my guns and they went away for a week and came back and all was well. DS was ten at this point btw.

Over the years things have changed in that DS is only resident with me and sees eXH away from his home,but there are other reasons for that I won’t go into here. But ultimately had I been obstructive in the beginning it would only have made things worse in the long run.

Even now when things have been tense between ds and eXH for various reasons I have maintained that although DS can always be the one who makes the decisions (he’s sixteen now,) he needn’t burn his bridges so to speak, and that’s stood them both in good stead as DS has grown up and matured and the relationship has changed and evolved and will continue to do so as he gets older.

Ultimately they’re not children forever, but those first years are vitally important and are what set the groundwork for life-long relationships. Never under-estimate that.