Non-bio mum issues with MIL

[SarahAndQuack]

MIL has just visited for the weekend. I had a lot of quite minor irritations, which I can deal with by having a quick rant with a friend and shrugging off, as she's always the same and seems unlikely to change. However, there's a bit of her behaviour that bothers me and I don't know what to do.

My DP is my DD's biological mother. MIL isn't homophobic in the typical sense (in fact DP is fairly sure she's bisexual herself), but since DD was small she has struggled with my role in DD's life. This visit, as usual, she referred to me as 'auntie' repeatedly (always making it out to be a slip-up, though I don't really believe it) and kept up a stream of low-level criticisms. At one point we ended up discussing my DP's sister, who's just separated from her husband and is working out arrangements for their son. MIL seems to believe her daughter gets to lay down the law and if her ex-husband doesn't like it, 'tough!' When DP left the room, MIL said to me that if we ever split up, 'I would have the baby'. I thought she meant she'd look after her, and although I thought it was a pretty nasty thing to say, I said yes, I'm sure you and my parents would both do lots for us. And she said no, she'd sue me (pointing her finger in my face) 'for custody' because the baby is her granddaughter.

There seems no point explaining to her this wouldn't happen, and that no one would ever give a grandmother custody over a perfectly functional parent, just because the grandmother is a biological relative. She's not big on explanations. And I didn't mention to my DP that she'd said it (though maybe I should).

But at what point do you think I should make a fuss about any of this? At the moment DD is nearly 2, and though she is a bit confused when MIL says 'auntie,' I doubt it matters much as she's equally confused by perfectly innocent things such as the fact my mum is 'granny' to her and 'mum' to me, or that her cousins have something called a 'daddy' who is also 'uncle So-and-So' to her. But at some point, it will start sinking in. And so will comments about suing for custody. Having heard MIL make similar comments to my SIL in the presence of her son (who is older), I don't think it's likely she will suddenly begin to self-censor.

Complicating this is the fact that my relationship with DP isn't wonderful (though I don't think MIL knows this, and certainly she doesn't know the extent of it), so separating is a real possibility. DP does quite often step in to correct some of MIL's comments, but I can't simply pretend we'll never split up.

I also don't even know what to say to MIL, if I did say anything.

She's a bully with an agenda, I don't think she'll respond to being asked not to use "auntie". I think she'd only respond to being forcefully pulled up on her agenda each and every time.

But, the problem is that your DP may not be able to back you up enough which is tricky. Do you think you can agree on a standard approach which doesn't tolerate this?

"My DP thinks she's saying hurtful things, don't get me wrong. And she is generally relieved when her mother has gone, but then she works herself into a belief that next time, her mum will be pleasant and we'll all enjoy her visit."

I think you and your DP have to sit down and talk about this. Given your relationship isn't great right now, I'd probably approach it from the angle of your daughter's welfare rather than your feelings about this. As you said, she's nearly two and therefore absorbing what people say and all the nuances.

Maybe -

'I'm a bit concerned by your mother always referring to me as 'auntie' in front of DD. I can see DD finds it confusing, and she's at the stage where pretty soon she's going to ask questions about this. What do you think we should do about this?'

I'd also take the opportunity to slip in your MIL's 'custody' comments next time your DP mentions her sister.

'Your mum seems to think your brother-in-law will have no right to see his children. Mind you, she also thinks she will get custody of DD should we split.'

And then continue the conversation about her sister. Drop it in fairly casually, don't make a big thing about it, but also don't keep what her mother said from her. Let her know.

I would firmly correct her each and every time she says anything at all. I’d also be really petty and call her by her first name to your DD instead of Granny or whatever she is known as.

Dementia. (Or early onset dementia.)

When she forgets act as if she has genuinely forgotten and start getting more and more worried about her memory. Lots of very patronising “no remember Mil - this is little Lucy and I am Sarah so I am her mummy too. Don’t worry - lots of people forget things sometimes.” Pats on arm are very important. As is sharing your worries with your partner ( preferably when MIL can overhear) and then having lots of meaningful raised eyebrows.

Finally you can start kindly suggesting that she goes to see a doctor.

The important thing is to genuinely act like you believe she is really that forgetful and act all worried. (Btw if you watch Casualty a main character is looking likely to have early onset dementia. Maybe that could get you thinking of it.....)

@WhereYouLeftIt - And then continue the conversation about her sister. Drop it in fairly casually, don't make a big thing about it, but also don't keep what her mother said from her. Let her know. - this is such a good way to do it! Thank you.

It's this stuff I need help with - just how I'd phrase it or approach it. It's not easy to figure out.

I don't think pretending I think she's got dementia would work - she never does go to see the doctor and she has real health problems, and I really wouldn't want to do anything that might have an impact on her existing insistence that everyone who wants her to see the doctor is deluded and trying to manipulate her!

I get why people are saying it, it's just not a possibility here, because she seriously needs medical attention for other things.

@assassinatedbeauty - I don't know what approach, though? I mean, possibly we could agree, but it would depend.

So, an approach would be to decide what you're both going to say/do when she starts with the "auntie" nonsense. You might agree to give her one chance, agree a response to say to her that recognises that it's not a slip/accident and draws attention to her agenda. Then if she does it again, you might decide to cut short the visit (you leave/she leaves depending on where you are), or if your DP can't agree to that, then maybe you take your DD out of the situation and go elsewhere if possible. That's less ideal, but at least stops your DD from being exposed to the undermining behaviour.

Is it possible that your DP has told her mum that things are a bit 'rocky' between you two and that's why she's doing this shit? Sort of a 'pre-emptive strike', as it were?

I think you are being too passive Sarah I completely understand why, but I don’t think it’s working for you.

She calls you Auntie and you mostly let it go.
She tells you she’ll sue for custody but you don’t think it’s a hill worth dying on.

What you see as being polite to your DP’s mum, what you see as trying to keep the peace and be “nice” she sees as weakness.

I get on well with my PILs, we see them very regularly but they are under no illusions as to who is in charge.

In the early days of our marriage I did what you do, just let things go and that was fine.

As soon as we had kids letting things go was suddenly not fine. They weren’t following our rules (and putting our D.C. in danger as a result) , they were undermining our parenting, they basically didn’t recognise our authority over our own children.

I dealt with it by never letting anything slide.

I was never rude, I never shouted or said mean things. I was calm, I was polite but I was very firm.

So:

Please don’t refer to yourself/MIL as Mummy. I am Mummy (and I took baby back)

You must use the pram strap when pushing the pram please, the hill is very steep. If you don’t use the strap you can’t push the pram (and enforced it by standing in front of the pram until he used the strap)

Please don’t let the baby play with or chew your jewellery it’s not safe. (I pick up baby) If you wont stop the baby doing that then it’s not safe for him to sit with you.

Please don’t undermine me when I tell (toddler) not to do something, it’s my decision that is final.

You just need to quietly but firmly stand up to this woman. Make your point and don’t back down.

You have the power, you just need to subtly make sure she knows it.

She’s calling you “auntie” in front of your daughter? That’s revolting and deliberate. My dh adopted my eldest, yet his dad would encourage my son to call him and my
Dh by their first name. Went NC as it was the tip of the iceberg.

assassinated - thanks, yes, could try, but as I say, I think DP isn't very amenable to this as she really does want to believe it's just a slip. It'd be more possible, I think, to move her on other issues, and frankly they bother me more too.

across - it's quite possible DP's talked to her mum (and no reason she shouldn't), but her mum has been like this since DD was born, so I don't think they are related issues. FWIW when DD was very tiny, she said (out of the blue) that grandparents have been known to sue for custody. It just seems to be a thing that's on her mind.

miane - fair point, I may be too passive (though, it was the 'auntie' thing, not the custody, that I referred to as not being a hill I wanted to die on. The thread has mostly focussed on that, but TBH it is the other stuff that worries me more).

I think, though, you've been very lucky with your in laws. Everyone goes through the odd issue of boundaries, and I do know that. But what you are describing is a situation where your in laws heard you, and didn't fight you picking up a child (my MIL once physically grabbed my very tiny newborn and literally would not let me take her. It made me furious, but you cannot play wrestling games with a newborn). Your MIL, when you said 'please don't undermine me,' presumably actually stopped. Mine will simply pretend she has not heard, or she will continue to do the same thing another time, and then it will either me more ignoring me when I speak, or 'I didn't think it was a big deal' 'what a fuss' or 'I don't think it matters'.

I mean, DP has had real issues with her too - there was a point where she had to be watched like a hawk because she wanted to feed a newborn solid food. And DP did an awful lot of saying no, mum, you absolutely can't, it is not safe. And she'd take the baby. And all it achieved was next visit it'd be 'can't I feed the baby a little bit of this then?' or 'I'll have her next week and feed her some rusks and you'll never know'.

"my MIL once physically grabbed my very tiny newborn and literally would not let me take her."

This alone would have been enough for me to refuse to see her with my baby.

She's already pushed past lots of boundaries and obviously feels she can do and say what she likes. I really think that the only way to stop this is to firmly enforce boundaries of behaviour. If she is unreasonable then she leaves. You don't need to be hostile, just firm.

How often do you see MIL?

I think you need to talk to your DP at how much her mum upsets her and DD and perhaps fewer visits would be better for all of you.

In all honesty, assassinated, I wish I had insisted on a showdown then. At the time, and because I honestly wanted DD to have a relationship with both sets of grandparents, I didn't.

random, we don't see her very often. DP goes down to hers maybe every other month; she's been to ours I think about 10 times since DD was born.

Not to do with the main issue but I really dislike some posters encouraging others to use gas lighting. Dementia/Alzheimers is a terrible disease and to try to maliciously suggest someone has Alzheimers is unbelievably wrong. Do these posters subtly try to suggest people have cancer as a way of putting them in their place?
Ugh! Be frank OP but ignore posters who suggest using fear of incurable diseases as a put down. It is a really nasty thing to do.

OP, I think you've been beaten down by this constant undermining from your in laws. She is trying to say that your daughter isn't your daughter!! It's completely outrageous and I don't understand why you aren't raging.

I would be tempted to just completely lose my temper with them the next time she does that. However tempting that might be though, you might end up losing face.

Like all things OP you have a DP problem most of all. Why isn't she standing up for you? Why is she prioritising keeping the peace with her mother over your place as your dd's mum? Why don't you feel able to ask for her to stand up for you? Are you scared of rocking the boat with her for some reason?

It's not a slip - she is being passive aggressive and more or less challenging you to do something about it. TBH, it would be better if your DP had a chat with her about this and told her to back off. You say she isn't homophobic, but her behaviour certainly suggests that she is. She is making it very clear that she does not consider your relationship with her DD to be on a par with a male/female partnership and that your relationship to your DD is 'lesser' than that of a biological parent (even though I'm guessing that you have formally adopted your DD and have full parental rights?). Please tell your DP what is going on. If you're hiding this stuff from her then no wonder you don't have a great relationship. This is stuff that you, as a couple, must share so that you can present a united front against MIL's viciousness. If she senses division between you and your DP you can bet she will be first in line to exploit it.

I think your mil is very scared about loosing her dgcs. Hence her comments that your dp and dsil should decide about the dcs. This doesn't excuse her behavior but may explain it.
Don't take this with partner instead next time mil says auntie (her way of alianating you) say I am mama, if you can't get that you will be referred to by name instead of grandma and other gp as grandma and grandpa. Best of luck 😀.

Anyone that refused to return my new born to me would not have been allowed to hold her again until she did hear me.

AnYour MIL, when you said 'please don't undermine me,' presumably actually stopped

She argued. Said I was wrong. Said I was making a fuss about nothing. I was very firm, very clear (without ever actually saying the words) that access to my D.C. was through me and only if you played ball.

Every single time they called MIL Mummy or did something underminding or unsafe called them in it and I quietly removed the child from the room. I never gave an inch.

Eventually after many, many repetitions they got it although they still occasionally push the boundaries.

The real difference in my situation is that my DH backs me 100%

This stuff isn’t easy Sarah you have my sympathies.

You are way too nice about this. Yes this is worth making a fuss about it.

It's hard at the time, when you are primarily focussed on your tiny newborn, to make a big decision like that. The benefit of hindsight makes it look like an easy decision.

Having a good relationship with grandparents depends on the grandparents actually being reasonable and not dangerous/unpleasant. Your MIL is the one who is jeopardising the relationship, after all

I think you need to approach it as "your Mum is still trying to undermine us as parents and you seem to be struggling with how you feel about that" your wife is in the FOG and not able to see her Mum how she really is

Next time she mentions is I’d tell her that they’re hardly going to give a bigoted old bag custody, but wish her all the best with that effort.

And next time she refers to you by Auntie, tell her to leave.

She’s a disgrace.

What a vile person x

You sound really lovely OP. But I think you need to make a fuss about this.
She's been extremely rude. With calling you auntie & implying you are not the child's parent and with her comment about her having more rights to the child than you. She's gone too far.

I wouldn't have someone with these views over at my house. Or spending time with my child. Call her out on these things directly, let and your partner know that it's not acceptable.

OP I'm afraid I'm another one who feels you are being too passive about this, but then again I speak from bitter experience.

My MIL did a lot of psychological damage to one of my DC, but my DP was too afraid of 'upsetting them' to deal with it. I was furious at the time, and it took about two years to pick up the pieces with DC (who only 5 when it happened). You know what? It destroyed our relationship as a couple. I know that sounds dramatic, but it's true. Not overnight, but the aftermath made it clear that something was damaged, and I couldn't get it back.

We're still 'together', but not 'together', if you know what I mean. The damage was done by my DP not standing up for me and our DC when it mattered, and me just 'being understanding' of everyone else and not putting my DC first, and me at the very bottom.

Don't let that happen to you. You say your relationship with your DP is 'not on perfect terms' at the moment, and the fact you are putting your worries second to that is worrying.

Finally, your DD deserves two happy parents who can work things out, be that together (as you clearly yearn for) or apart. Whatever happens, your MIL, as a grandparent, has no rights in legal terms (as much as I understand things to be in the UK) so her bluster about 'custody' is exactly that. If you are in a legally recognisable partnership with your DP then that will come before anything your MIL says.