Why does this annoy me so much?!

[ColdAlaskanNights]

Fully prepared for the opinion to be split on this - a mixture of 'get over it' and 'I see why you're concerned' is likely to happen, but I'm mostly just wanting to get this off my chest and have a vent! Opinions, thoughts and personal experiences all welcome!

Yesterday afternoon, DH spent 4 hours in the loft (whilst I was downstairs with our two young DC's) getting it ready to become his 'man cave'. Now I should state from the off that I HATE that term. It makes me think of blokes that are trying to hide away from their wives and families, and would rather be holed up in some uni-esque looking room drinking beer and watching sports all alone. Anyway! The evening rolled around and it was time to get DC's to bed - we did so, DH then ate dinner and went up in to his new 'man cave' for another four hours, leaving me in the lounge on my own before I eventually got fed up and went to bed.

When he spoke of this man cave idea a few months back, he said it's a place for him to 'watch his tv shows and play games' - now, here's why I think I largely have an issue with this whole separate room thing - we enjoy different shows, but still, every single evening I tell him to put on what he wants, to open Netflix and watch the next season of that show he's been dying to catch up on, to stream the next wrestling episode online. I'm not some ogre that bans his shows, I'm constantly offering to watch what he wants to watch - we BOTH enjoy using the PlayStation so I rarely, if ever, complain about him using it - unless of course I'm being left to do ten tonne of housework on my own whilst he plays batman.. But evidently, he'd rather sit in a freezing cold loft with no heating, no natural light, no furniture and a grainy pixelated projector screen to view his shows on.

Im left feeling like this room is nothing more than an escape from me. If I had the choice between sitting on our sofas watching a 50" tv surrounded by lovely warmth and general home comforts, I wouldn't go and sit in a dark and cold loft on my own.

I know he's going to wind up spending Saturday and Sunday evenings up there, and I doubt it'll be long before a few week day evenings are spent up there too. After we've got the kids to bed, we have around two hours each day in which to properly see each other and talk, and I'm worried that this room is going to take away what little time what we have.

Is he hiding from me?

Well I ended up going for a long walk, needed some air and I guess walks are my only form of 'me time' - I've come home and he's still in the loft.. doing nothing that couldn't be done in the lounge.

You say you tell him he "can" watch his TV shows in the lounge..
I'd find it awkward and rather infantalisilng to be told by my dp that I could go ahead and put "my" choice on the TV.
You might not be doing this on purpose but maybe your dh feels you are resentful and only tolerating his presecence and his choices.
Talk to him.. Explain why you feel him going to the loft is a rejection and ask why he is choosing that over the warm home comfort of lounge.
Just be prepared to hear that he feels you sitting there unhappy or judging his choices has made him want a space away

I only say it like that, because if I don't, he literally won't put a damn thing on, so then I'm left to choose and wind up putting on something I like. So instead, I'm constantly like 'why don't you put your shows on?' 'Don't you have X and Y to catch up on?' But he never bothers.

I asked him when i got back if he was ready to talk about why he feels like he needs a separate room and he said he just wants a space that's 'his' that he can do what he like with. I always, always, ask for opinion regarding decor and even tried incorporating a lot of his personality and tastes in to things/pictures etc in our bedroom - but he didn't give a shit about that. It's come across like he just wants a room to hideaway in and do man things, despite me not having my own little sanctuary anywhere in the home... I guess men are just more entitled to one, right?! 🙄🤔🤦🏻‍♀️

This is not about gender op, don't go there as it's simply. Ludicrous.

This is about your marriage, your husband is entitled to me time, that's not about being Male or female.

But if he would rather not spend any time with you, and ignores you when you talk to him the issue isn't the loft, it's your relationship.

We have a second living room, my husband likes to game and rhe games are in there with a seperate tv, he can sit in there all night if he chooses. But he doesn't.hes sat opposite me right now, I've never once questioned how much time he spends in there. Never once had rules or fights about it. Because he'd rather be sat with me. The issue here is your husband would rather he wasn't.

I've come home and he's still in the loft.. doing nothing that couldn't be done in the lounge.

Have a re-read of your own words OP.

I also loathe man-caves or to put into the correct terminoligy, bolt holes.

Why dont women have women-caves?

How comes he has the time to spend all this 'me" time in the loft? When our kids were that age we were too busy getting stuff done. My guess is that you are doing everything for him to have all this free time and instead of appreciating that as family/ couple time - well it's man cave time. He needs to grow up. In the meantime stop making his life so comfortable and invest that time in yourself.

Wow, he's going to extreme lengths to show you that he can do what he wants when he wants and gives zero fucks about you. The ignoring you, the implied horror of him being pissed off (so what?), Your expectation that he will spend hours pointedly away from you.

Does he often belittle.you? Sounds like a punisent to me? You seem to know what's coming and feel.powerless.to stop him.

Seems like a punishment

I'd support anyone who felt that they wanted their own room and space. I've got friends, male and female, who have their own rooms for gaming, reading, dressmaking and it seems to work well as a little sanctuary from family life.

I guess some people escape by going to the pub, or to meet a friend for coffee or whatever, and some people would rather be at home, but left in peace.

But I do think that you have a problem op. Because unless you're being disingenuous and do actually keep him constantly busy with chores or talk through his shows or basically just never let him relax in peace, then there's no obvious reason why he should prefer such an uncomfortable room to spending time with you, and he is being very unkind not to discuss or allay your perfectly understandable fears about it.

But I don't know what you do about it because if you insist that he stops using the loft he will probably comply but you will still know, when he's sitting with you in the evening, that he'd really rather be elsewhere.

I’d agree with him that he spends a couple of evenings up there a week and that’s it. My DH likes playing on his PlayStation in his study sometimes and I like the opportunity to watch the tv shows that he hates but I wouldn’t like it all the time.
Also the novelty might wear off but I do think we all need a bit of time to ourselves especially when kids make that hard during the day

So, he did mention to me last night that I'm welcome to use the loft too (errr, should I be thankful?) but honestly what's the point in us both sitting up there? If we're going to do that, why not just sit in our comfy lounge together? It's just madness.

Another thing that I can foresee happening (because it happens already) is that it's not like he'll pitch in to get the home tidied up before scurrying away up to the loft. Yesterday, he did pick the toys up off of the lounge floor, but it's taken me almost two years to get him to see that cleaning up after the kids have gone to bed isn't just my job purely because I'm the stay at home parent. I cook every single evening, the moment he walks through the door, his dinner is ready, and 99.9% of the time, I'm the one doing the dishes afterwards too. If laundry still needs to be hung out because I've had a hectic day with two young kids, well then, it's me hanging it out before I can sit down for the evening.
At weekends, I'm the one cooking the roast dinners and cleaning the kitchen afterwards, I'm the one stripping, changing and making our beds. I'm the one cleaning our lounge windows cos our two year old gets them so mucky we can't even see out of them. I'm the one cleaning our bath, and our toilet. I do expect to be doing the lions share of the housework but even though I do do everything; I don't expect my own personal room to hideaway in once everything is done.

Someone mentioned that maybe I'm nagging him to do things or talking through his shows - once in a very rare blue moon I'll ask him to do the washing up before he gets settled for the evening because again, washing everyone's plates shouldn't just fall on me to do after I've cooked.
If he's had a bath, I'll tell him to clean up in the bathroom afterwards - it's 50/50 whether or not he'll actually do that though.
He currently has a growing pile of dirty laundry next to his side of the bed because I haven't taken it upon myself to pick it up each day and put it in the laundry basket - so I think that more or less sums up how often I 'nag' him to pull his weight.

I do sometimes ask a few questions while his shows are on, but it's more so I'm trying to take an interest in them and can vaguely understand the plot if I'm watching a show that's three series in already - not like him who'll talk the entire way through my stuff meaning i either need to constantly rewind or just watch the show again at a later stage - but, that being said, I don't mind doing that because I'd rather have the adult company than be left on my own.

I'm wary of being like 'ok you can use the loft X, Y and Z days' because I don't want to seem controlling, and if I do that I think it'll just push him to use it more. Apparently last night he was going to watch his show downstairs, but because I 'pissed him off' by asking the purpose of the man cave, he wanted to sit up there and watch it there instead.

It sounds like you have bigger problems here than the man cave, this is just highlighting them. He doesn’t contribute equally to household tasks, you can’t communicate with him and if you give your opinion then he says you are pissing him off.

I think having time alone is important but so is quality time. Sometimes my H and I spend our evening in different rooms, but we always make time to sit and talk with each other first and we always go to bed together. We also have date nights regularly where we are away from distractions. I am another who feels distant from my partner if I don’t get time with him. Our friends spent every night apart in different rooms and have just got divorced as in their case it just highlighted the other issues they had.

Putting some boundaries in place is not being controlling, it is explaining what you find acceptable in a relationship. He doesn’t get to opt out of family life and vanish into the loft all weekend while you do everything. I would compromise with a few evenings a week apart and a few together, but I suspect he won’t agree to that and want it all his own way.

@ColdAlaskanNights he's a grown man, it's his house as well as yours, he should be helping you with at least some housework. My DP never expects me to do everything just because I'm on maternity leave and he works! I'll cook every night but he will then wash up and we alternate putting DS to bed etc.

You clearly don't nag too much seeing as he has a pile of washing mounting up! He sounds like another child!

@BarbedBloom

Yes, exactly this!!

Hold on so he leaves his clothes on the floor, doesn't clean up after himself, doesn't cook, doesn't communicate properly?!* and now he's got himself a man-cave or teenagers den more like. He needs to grow up!

So leave that pile of clothes, stop with the dinners being ready every night - you and your kids can eat earlier - and leave him with the kids for the day/weekend.

I would remind him that you are not his parent you are adult partners, and expecting to interact and exchange, watch movies together, catch up on the day, share the daily tasks is all part of a partnership.

Hold firm here otherwise what kind of relationship will you have? What actually do you get out of all this?

The loft isn't really the problem here I fear. Its just shed mentality:

www.shedbosssheds.com.au/the-psychology-of-the-shed/

Also just out of curiosity, would you get as annoyed if he sat with you in the lounge while you watched your things on the TV whilst he scrolled through an iPad or phone, not taking any notice of the TV?

I would start going out. Leave him with the kids and go 'out'. Visit friends. Power walk. Go to the cinema. Anything to get the balance back and when he is ready to confront, tell him it is obvious to you he has checked out of the marriage so you are doing the same and at what point he thinks divorce proceedings should begin? Make it a serious question and he might start to see your side.

I haven't read all these replied posts because there is so many. Just a suggestion how about it you tell your husband you would like to have some on to one time tonight when the kids are asleep (or could be on the weekend) maybe you could buy and bottle of wine and some cheeses. Just have some couple time and you can gently bring in the conversation how it makes you feel him having this man cave. Maybe he might be going through some issues or feelings himself.
All of us as individuals are different, different personalities and ways of thinking. So who knows why he feels the need to have this room. Just a little suggestion us women can be emotional sometimes, I know I can be!

I'm sure you both can work it out it just takes time sometimes

Hi OP, I'm really sorry to hear about what's happening in your relationship. What you've written is very familiar to me. My now ex used to actively avoid me and the kids all weekend and left me to do everything in the home. He saw that because he went to work 5 days a week, his time was then to recoup for going back to work and didn't help or contribute at all. He didn't have a man cave, instead he went upstairs when we were downstairs and came downstairs when we were upstairs. He also took himself out for drives alone on the weekends. I felt alone, unappreciated, unloved and it was one of the many reasons we broke up.

I'm unsure what to advise as it's difficult to communicate with someone who is stonewalling you but he really is massively damaging your relationship. Some of the things you've said makes it sound like he is emotionally abusive maybe? Does he help out financially? Was he more helpful and committed before the arrival of the children? I've heard many men struggle to adapt when babies come along.

Good luck and best wishes

@Bluntness100 yes totally agree with this, summed up perfectly in my opinion.

So OP, you know the following:

Your husband wants to spend so much time away from you, he’s gone to the effort of making the loft habitable. He’d rather sit in the loft shivering than be next to you.

He doesn’t take your thoughts and feelings seriously or listen to you. He doesn’t care how his actions affect you.

He thinks the housework and kid work is your job, not his. He ‘helps’ very occasionally.

Right now you don’t have a marriage, you have a legal obligation to a man who has checked out of your relationship. How much effort does he put into wooing you, showing you you’re loved, spending time together, doing things go make you feel happy? How much effort in comparison does he put into making the loft his own space?

You’ll spend night after night alone in the lounge, feeling rejected and unwanted. When the kids need care, it’ll default to you as he’s up in the loft. You’ll grow to cringe at the sound of the ladder being pulled down.

Either he doesn’t love you anymore or he’s so complacent he could take or leave being with you. This isn’t how a man who loves his wife and feels grateful to have her behaves. This is so extreme I admit I even wondered if there’s another reason he needs to be isolated so frequently: another woman he needs time to message?

You’d be happier single than dealing with feeling this rejected cos your husband would rather sit in a cold loft than be near you.

Your marriage is in serious trouble.

So what are you going to do?

I'm just really struggling to understand why he needs to 'watch his shows' up in the loft when I do my best to encourage him to put them on in the lounge even though I'm not a massive fan of the stuff he watches. He probably thinks he's doing me a favour by not making me watch his shit, but frankly, I'd rather watch a few episodes of a show I don't enjoy whilst having some adult company than be left entirely on my own all evening.

You’ve tried talking to him and got nowhere. What next? I understand if all you need this thread for is hearing from others whether they’d accept this or not and a space to just vent. But are you planning to act on this?

I think I need to gauge the extent of how often the loft is going to be used (and how long for) before I act on anything. He's said he wants to use it in the evenings to catch up on shows, he's moved consoles up there (which we both played with...) so I assume gaming time is to be considered, and he's said he's going to practice guitar up there too which will obviously be done during daytime as an electric guitar played through an amp can't be done at night for obvious reasons.

So, I mean, if it turns out this 'man cave' (still can't stay that phrase without turning my nose up!) will only be used say, Sunday's for example - he may go up there for an hour or so in the morning to practice guitar, then a few hours in the evening to catch up shows - then that's absolutely fine. I can't grumble at that. That's in essence, no different to him popping out to do his hobby then meeting friends in the evening.
If however, it does become a Saturday and Sunday evening thing, plus time spent there during the day and some week nights too, then honestly I'm not sure what I'll do but I really won't be ok with that.

He spent a total of 8 hours up there on Sunday, then over 4 hours up there yesterday so hardly off to a good start.... Given that he stated he only went up there yesterday because I apparently annoyed him, I'm to assume then that whenever he's huffy, that's where he's going to retreat to..

I think he's fed up with family life and wants this 'man' space to escape from things. I guess I need to sit tight for now and see if this new found room escalates and consumes what little time we get together or not.

Also to add - we never do date days or date nights (yet another reason why I'm pissed at the thought of a poxy loft taking up weekend evenings which we could be using to do proper couple things) I'm rarely wooed and romanced - though I'm sure he'd argue against that.

Could it be the MLC? (Mid Loft Crisis)

Interesting you should say that @femidom12 he did make a passing joke about going through a midlife crisis the other week, but he has a very self deprecating humour so I thought nothing of it at the time! I guess that could explain a few things though.. {goes off to google other MLC signs}