ok to tell dcs I don't want to hear about ex slagging me off?

[bananaramaspyjamas]

My exh is a nasty git and was EA in our relationship. He still sees dcs eow. Have been divorced for years.
Dcs are starting to see him for what he is. I try not to say much except if they notice some behaviour thats crap from him I will say yes thats not right, that's not your fault it's him or whatever.
But inside I have got the rage with him, how he used to treat me, how crap a dad he is, even how well off he is while we're struggling. I've had counselling and all that. But it's still hard. Everything in the day to day looking after teenage dcs is down to me and has been for over a decade.
I know he will never change and tbh now I'm counting down the days until I have virtually nothing to do with him when dcs leave.

I don't really want to hear about him and what he's said or what an arse he is because it winds me up. If dcs tell me something rude or unfair he's said about me, I find it very hard to let it go. Is it okay just to say to dcs I don't want to hear about him any more? The thing is they've only got me to talk to.Just wondered what other people would do in this situation?

I think it depends on how old they are. If they're teenagers I'd say yes they shouldn't be relaying negative crap he's said. If younger they probably need help in dealing with their mum being criticised. My sad used to say foul things about my mum. It confused me and made me doubt her at times(which in retrospect she didn't deserve) . I didn't tell her because I didn't want to upset her but at 9 I was probably too young to have that burden.

Thanks madmarch I agree with you 9 is too young, and poor you feeling you had to protect your mum. I think that's my worry, is where do you find the balance. I don't want them to feel caught up in it or they have to carry it, but on the other hand it just makes me feel angry and I have nowhere to put it, I don't think it's good for me, I've done over ten years worth.
They are both teenagers now. Let's say I 'suck it up' for a few more years, will there ever come a point where I can say look I just don't want to hear it? For instance when they're at uni type age or older. I would like to think there will be a time when they just have their own relationship with him, as and if they choose. I don't want to hear about him slagging me off in say 20 years time. Just feels like I can never get away from him.

Are they saying it in a "you'll never guess what he said" telltaley way or are they trying to get your reaction and defence on a point? If its the previous I think you deserve to be shielded from it somewhat with the occasional chat that you acknowledge he slags you off but it's part of the EA they seem to have accepted he is guilty of. Fwiw my dad's bitterness and immaturity did fizzle out over the years and they get on well now.

Well that's good to hear madmarch
It feels my ex will never get to that (for background, he left me for OW )
It's not tell tale ish, just more in the context of a general moan about him being an arse I think. Or maybe they want to see what I will say? Or feel bad that he said it? I don't know really.

Well they probably don't want to hear him say bad stuff about you either. And they are having to deal with abuse face on. So yes, I do think you have to help them deal with it, rather than saying you dont want to know.

I get what you're saying barbarian I have always tried to think of it that way and it helps to remember that.
I wish there was an end point though? dcs are of the age where they can decide for themselves now when and whether to go there, and they know this.
I feel like exh behaviour is affecting my MH and isn't good for me. Parenting teens is hard enough as it is.

bumping for any more ideas or experiences or suggestions

If they are mature teenagers then I'd be inclined to tell them what you've said here. They must know that hearing this kind of crap is upsetting, but if you don't react then maybe they continue to relay it because it is upsetting to them to, and they have no-one else to tell?

Maybe it feels disloyal to them, to hear crap from their dad but not "report" it back to you? Maybe they are worried that you might hear via some other route that he's been slagging you off to them but they didn't let on, and feel they should have. If that makes sense.

They obviously know it's not right, what he says, so have a conversation with them.

Depending on the teenage 'age' i would be more careful at 13 then 17 for example I do think you can say to them- you know me and your dad dont get on and i feel he was quite horrible to me so whilst I am more than happy for you to see him etc I dont really want to hear about it...if it is just general whinging about stuff alla teenagers then just ignore or maybe say if they wish you get to get involved/do something about what they are saying...

however for yourself he may always be in their lives (uni graduating/weddings etc etc ) so you may need to think a way to deal with it

Correct anything factually incorrect, but only if you can actively prove it " thats a strange thing to say when...".

Otherwise point out opinion and perspective, "well that's his perspective, what do you think" "everyone has their own perspective on stuff" . If you are giving an opinion yourself make sure you sign post it "well this is what i think...". Essentially you are teaching them to critical think and develop independent opinions even though he is their dad.

Work with the attitude that "i dont care about him he is who he is you cant change him or what he says you can only change his impact on you". So shift the focus from being about him to being about the kids "how do you feel about that" "what could you do about that" "what do you want to do about that" (nothing is ok too, just letting out things that have annoyed you is ok).

Agree with Greeneggs step back from these comments and explore with the dc only in order for them to process their feelings about them. I would guess once they know the ‘sting’ has been taken out (by you not feeling hurt) they will learn to put it in context and stop mentioning?

Depends on their ages and stages though.

FWIW my ex is a twunt and I do all the supporting with our teens, he manages to stay unstable with housing and relationships and cause more disruption and upset for the dc. I can’t change it. It will never change. So allow yourself to rant about it over a g&t with friends (because yes it’s infuriating alright), but don’t wallow in it. Try and compartmentalise it more. Don’t let it pollute your life.

And yeah, parenting teens is hard enough.

When my children repeat silly stuff my ex has said I laugh and say “oh he’s a dipstick isn’t he?” and that’s it. If it’s really outrageous I have said “really? Well he’s always been a bit of a stranger to the truth” and again laugh. I think the laugh is important as it shows them that his nonsense is not to be taken seriously. I don’t slag him off but I do answer their questions honestly within reason. They’re 15 and 12. If they’re asking then they’re clearly needing help to assimilate how he behaves, which can be awful. They need to tools to manage him too and taking the stance of never acknowledging his poor behaviour won’t help them develop them.

"oh he’s a dipstick isn’t he?"

Mine wouldnt have coped with that as they would have felt that was me slagging him off back. why if it was ok for me to do it wasn't he ok to do the same (even if what he was saying was significantly worse). "Well thats how he feels, i see things differently, everone has their own perspective" would have served me better. But mine were young and exH was seriously emotionally abusive (eventually turned physical towards the kids too) so my experience does lie at the extreme of the scale.

Thanks so much for all the different perspectives here, it helps a lot as I feel quite alone with this. I've tried the years of smile and nod but the older they get the harder I'm finding it. Plus at the beginning I think I'd hoped as the years went on his nonsense would get less.

I do need to take a step back probably and try to just remind them they can think for themselves. It's hard to make it look like it doesn't bother me because really it gives me the rage. Which is what it's designed to do I expect. I really have try harder to not give it any headspace.

I take on board that telling them I don't want to hear it isn't fair on them. They're 17 and 13 though, and I do feel differently now from when they were younger, because the eldest at least is a young adult now.

Weddings and uni and all that of course I will do my best to make it as harmonious as I can for dcs. Hopefully it'll be easier when not having to deal with him EOW.

I totally get where you are coming from Op -I’m worn down with all the shite from a nasty x too - have 2 17 yr olds that still see him Eow and I still suffer with the rage frequently.

But this comes from a place where I can see that the x is being Ea to the kids but in their niavity they don’t see the subtle actions as abuse. This can come from a totally innocent remark from one of the kids.

I didn’t recognise my marriage as ea I thought it was normal - it was only after x had affair and left for OW too and his treatment of me when I went for divorce that I came to realise how abusive it had been.

Theres no way I want my kids going through what I’ve been through - I want them to recognise subtle manipulation and control and have the ability to stand up to this and deal with it head on - otherwise it mucks with your MH - whether they chose to do this is up to them - but I see my role as a parent is to teach them about abuse in its many forms regardless of where it comes from.

You wouldn’t let anybody else abuse your kids - if they are being ea by their DF who else is going to tell them. I do not believe kids work it out for themselves unless this is now being taught in schools in great detail - which I doubt - so it’s up to us.

I think your kids are looking to you for some guidance by repeating what is being said - they obviously feel comfortable doing this which is a sign of the good relationship you have with them. If it makes you angry let them see this - he’s using the kids to get at you and this is still ongoing abuse - the only way it will stop is when your kids recognise it as disrespect to you and tell him this themselves! You need to give them the courage to be able to do This!

thanks greenberet I'm sorry you're going through similar but I can tell you exactly get it. My exh is subtly manipulative and like you I only saw the EA in retrospect because I was brought up in an EA environment and didn't know the signs.

Your ex sounds exactly like mine. He is EA to dcs in the same subtle/manipulative way. I agree about teaching the dcs to recognise abusive behaviour for what it is and yes maybe I do need to call it out if he's said something out of order about me, so as to say no thats not okay. It's so bloody shite isn't it and like you say, wearing.

I too was brought up in an ea & fa environment - I thought it was normal - I didn’t know the signs either so much
so that I tolerated what I know now was abuse for many years - the impact on me long term MH issues. The situation as such wasn’t the issue it was x’s Refusal to discuss anything because it would end up in arguments, the blame always seemed to fall to me - see my other post about economic abuse- even know I’m picking up the pieces of the devastation caused by him

That’s why I’m making sure my kids know what is abusive behaviour - it may be too late - I’m not even sure I’m going to get to 18 - chickens may be coming home to roost

Perhaps an approach you could consider, when they say "Dad says you are a castrating bitch", ask them "And how did that make you feel, when he said that?"

Gives them room to talk about their emotions, but also distances you from what's been said.

Sorry to hear that OP, it sounds like the EA is continuing via proxy - but now he is also doing it to your children as well as you.

It would be very difficult for you to both be in the position of someone being abused and to support your children through this active emotional abuse. It is emotionally abusive of your ex to badmouth you to your own children, it's extremely disorienting and distressing for children to hear a parent being badmouthed.

I would suggest you all get into counselling - separately or together - to help through this difficult time. Ask for help from school, social services - not sure who would be best placed to help you but you do all need some help to get through this. I really wish you all the best.

My ex is similar but my kids can mostly see it for what it is. He says your mother is lazy or doesn't do anything and I do everything etc. Except my kids can clearly see the opposite is true so they tend to just ignore it. My eldest tells me and he needs to as it does affect him. I honestly don't care what he says about me at all. I care that he hurts the children by saying these things but I think they're mostly ok. I do not slag him off, I just tell my eldest that he's talking rubbish and to just walk awa6 and ignore him. To not try and argue or defend me because it just prolongs it and it's impossible arguing with him - he keeps bringing unrelated stuff to any argument.

I don't understand why it still bothers you? You know it's not true?

Are you alright greenberet? do you mean dcs are going to live with their dad?

Thanks for all the comments and support. I'd love it if the comments didn't get to me. Sometimes I can cope better than others, it depends really on what else is going on I suppose, how isolated or overworked I feel at the time and so on. It's hard hearing his insults repeated back via the dcs.

I have tried counselling, it was helpful but too expensive to continue.

I'll aim to go for the 'and how did you feel when he said that' approach, as that might help as a way of focussing back on dcs and not on the comments themselves.

Its a minefield as dcs get older and say he's like this or like that. I just say yes if its accurate and hope that doesn't count as badmouthing him if they're the ones saying and observing it. But I wish I could be out of the whole toxic mess, am just doing my best on damage limitation to dcs but its hard.

But if they're teenagers surely they're old enough to tell him not to slag their mum off to them? Nip it in the bud at source. Why do they have to passively listen to any of this in the first place?

I wouldn't want the kids going to him.

This is abuse. Your kids shouldn't be subjected to it. It causes kids major damage. It is totally unacceptable.

I'd stop the contact. Not easy, no, but if he was hitting them that would be clear - what he's doing is no different.

The thing is springy they don't want to go no contact, and at the end of the day thats not my decision to make. The courts wouldn't allow it and he would 100 percent get his day in court, which would cause more stress and damage. I've made it clear to dcs they don't have to go and ds1 is old enough to make that choice anyway as at that age can decide where to live. Plus if anything happened to me they need someone else there. Its far from ideal, I can see that clear as anything.
This thread has been helpful and all the input. I think its a situation with no easy answers, as others in the situation will know.

I'm in the same position. How about you contact him and ask him to not talk about you to the children, as it's upsetting them and you don't do it....or would that cause more trouble?