I don't know if my marriage can survive

[irnbrubaby]

Name changed, I've discussed this with a few friends who read MN and I don't want them to know my usual posting name if they happen to read this.

I have been with my husband for 15 years, married for 13.5. We have three dc. We've had our share of arguments and ups and downs, but we've always been good at making up and we've always been committed to being together.

A few months ago my husband took up meditation and soon after that discovered an individual who claims a bunch of things about reality, consciousness and so on. He's really got into that stuff. He has made huge, sweeping changes to his life. He is a different person.

He says he feels so much happier and better, and he says he is a better person now.

I am so unhappy. I feel like my husband disappeared overnight and a stranger took his place, and that because many of the sweeping changes he has made (such as suddenly becoming teetotal, going vegan, cutting out sugar, getting up early every day to meditate) are objectively healthy and 'good', it is seen as unreasonable for me to say "but you are not the man I married and I am not happy".

Everything has changed. If I met him now, I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with him. That doesn't mean he is a 'bad' person or is doing something 'wrong'- it just means that the attraction would not be there and he would not be someone I would want to start or have a relationship with. I seriously doubt the man he has become would want to be with me if he met me for the first time now, either!

The biggest problem we have, I think, is that I have lost an awful lot of respect for him as a person due to the stuff he has started to believe. Once your respect for your partner is going, what hope does a relationship have? I know people will think I am a horrible, stuck up bitch for this- and maybe I am, but that doesn't change how I feel. I cannot magically develop an 'all opinions are of equal worth' approach, I'm not someone who thinks "I believe the stars in the sky are made when God crumbles up the full moon at the end of each month" (this is not one of my husband's new beliefs, I've just nicked it from a brilliant book as an example) is a belief of equal worth and status and is as deserving of equal respect and attention as the belief that "stars are luminous spheroids of plasma held together by their own gravity". One of those beliefs is backed up by scientific observation and evidence and research and experimentation and one isn't.

I've said to him today (by text) that we need relationship counselling. But what the hell can any counselling do for us? He has become someone else. I have stayed the same- and I cannot be the partner the new him wants, surely. And he has attached himself to a set of beliefs that to me demonstrate the holder is really quite fucking stupid. Whether or not I am right about that (perhaps he is 100% correct and I am the stupid one and a bunch of hallucinating meditation aficionados know much more about The Truth than the world's scientists), the problem is the contempt I feel and the fact that if he truly believes the things he says now, he is not the man I thought he was.

I don't want this to be a "who is right?" thing. I'm not looking to parcel out blame. It's not a case of, let's have an argument about it all or invite others to argue it, and the 'winner' gets to choose what happens next: it's a case of I am not happy. Imagining divorce breaks my heart, I've started crying even writing this. I don't want divorce, I want the marriage and husband I thought I had. But imagining this for the rest of my life is also horrible and miserable and makes me feel sick.

Should we go for counselling? What should we do?

If you want to be blunt, be blunt, but I'd be really grateful if you could also be kind, because I feel dreadful.

Definitely go for counselling. It’ll help you see what’s left and whether it’s worth fighting for and give you tools on how to do that.

But ultimately it sounds like you are devastated at the idea of breaking up with the man you used to be with, not this man you’re with now. And sadly, this is who he is and there’s nothing to suggest he’ll ever revert back. You’re unhappy with this man, and that needs addressing. The old him isn’t there anymore, you’ve lost your relationship with that man whether you stay with this one or not.

It’s desperately sad as he has changed and you haven’t. It feels very unfair. But it’s your reality. I couldn’t imagine being with my OH if he suddenly changed his entire belief system and became devoutly religious for example as our beliefs just wouldn’t be compatible. You’ve tried and it isn’t working so at least if you try counselling you can walk away knowing you did everything you could with no regrets and ‘what if?’s.

Are you having to do these things too OP? Is it that he is wanting to change the way you ‘all’ live ? Or has it just totally changed his personality and ge would comment if you drank, ate meat etc. Just trying to work out what it is that bothers you. I do understand, I’ve had my H change too and become very very conscious of what he eats, checking his steps every day and declaring stuff has to be gluten free etc (he isn’t coeliac either) just days too much gluten makes him feel stuffed, Standing watching someone scrutinise packets all the time for calories/gluten etc can get a bit wearing when they are neither fat or coeliac.

Oh and in my case he secretly is always looking at his star sign stuff in last few years, I find it quite weird in a bloke to be honest . I appreciate others will think it’s harmless

I have had a similar thing happen but with a friend. The particular examples you mention (going vegan, not drinking) are not things worth breaking up over, however I get the impression there is a more fundamental change in his beliefs that is what's causing you to feel this way.

I am guessing that he has developed an obsession with this new person and is now spouting whatever things he/she would approve of.

I have seen my friend make decisions that I strongly disagree with that have impacts on, for example, her DC safety.

I think it is worth you exploring exactly what it is about your DH beliefs that you dislike to help you decide whether you can accept it.

I couldn’t imagine being with my OH if he suddenly changed his entire belief system and became devoutly religious for example as our beliefs just wouldn’t be compatible.

Yes. That's the wording I've been searching for. Our beliefs are no longer compatible.

Are you having to do these things too OP? Is it that he is wanting to change the way you ‘all’ live ? Or has it just totally changed his personality and ge would comment if you drank, ate meat etc. Just trying to work out what it is that bothers you.

No, we aren't having to. Although obviously he has withdrawn from a lot of shared activity- whether that's things he and I used to enjoy together, or things we enjoyed as a family- as he no longer eats/ drinks/ does those things. He has given up sugar as apparently sugar gets in the way of meditation. I can't quite work out why he has gone vegan but I think veganism is great, I'm unbothered by that apart from the way that he will only get information/ advice about veganism from the forum where people with his new beliefs congregate and no other information is valid.

Honestly, what bothers me is that he isn't him any more, he's this stranger, who isn't a bad person but who sure as hell isn't the husband I had before. And his personality has changed massively: he thinks he is being very kind and patient and loving, I find that he is being patronising and smug and false. As for what it's done to our sex life, I could weep over it. I do fucking weep over it.

I think it is worth you exploring exactly what it is about your DH beliefs that you dislike to help you decide whether you can accept it

I honestly think it comes down to the fact that they are just pseudoscience without any sort of evidence to support them, and they make sweeping claims to be a 'theory' (not as I understand the word theory) of everything. And he is so defensive if challenged even slightly and gently about them- as well as spouting them as if they were widely accepted fact. I do think there is a danger to some of it all too- for instance one member of the forum he spends all his free time on has posted about there being no need to do anything about global warming as this is just a virtual reality and we should let go of fear, which just leaves me going "wuuuuuhhhh?"- but then I remember that most people on the planet won't be into this stuff so the danger is absolutely tiny. Idk, it's just- if he believes this stuff, who the hell is he? How can my husband be this stupid?

He sounds like he is going through a mid life crisis. Perhaps this could be explored at counselling? Is it likely to be a 'phase'?

Aww, this has made me sad. Does you DH usually stick to things or is he a bit flighty with new hobbies. If it is the latter, why not give it 6 months and see if it is a phase. Not sure how long he has been like this already, if it is longer than that already, is he willing to go to counselling? If he isn’t up for any counselling I can’t see a future for you both to be honest. How sad ☹️

It sounds like you've noticed his values no longer align with yours. That is a serious change. Religion isn't the problem- it's that underlying structure of values that needs to align. Eg an atheist and a catholic can have a wonderful marriage IF they share underlying, foundational values, which may be expressed differently (eg atheist is a doctor, catholic does religious visiting of the dying, something like that, but the underlying value is "life is precious").

Counseling would be the only option I think.

He may refuse it though. In which case I'd do individual counseling.

This sounds hard OP. Xx

I haven’t read it since it was released so I may be misremembering but this scenario reminded me of How to be a Good by Nick Hornby, where the main characters husband went from being an angry cynic to this weird spiritual guru wannabe who was writing a book on how to be good (funnily enough) and irritating his wife with his smug new-found enlightenment. I remember thinking that living with such a person- especially if you’d signed up for Someone quite different- would be maddening.

I think as a first instance you need to consider therapy but I’m not sure where you go if he’s unprepared to change/see things from your perspective.

Is it worth trying to explore with him why he's embraced these new ways of thinking so whole-heartedly? As in, what was he 'missing' before? There must be some reason that propelled him into this.

OK, my advice is just be patient with him. He'll come back to who he was - and how do I know? Because I was him. Several times. I've taken part in a few different 'transformative' experiences, and believe me, they're so mind-blowing to the person experiencing that it changes how you see the world for a while. I've been that 'smug' and 'patronising' person and it was only later that my husband told be that I had been utterly insufferable. It's easy to band together with people who have experienced it for a while, because only they understand. If he's anything like me, the experience will always be a part of him, but it's influence will mellow considerably (hopefully retaining some positive aspects in his life). Don't bother arguing with him about it - it won't help. Just 'yes dear' him for a while and show him love and I hope he'll come back to you.

Bookmarking

Cherchez la femme

Midlife crisis, remodelling self, new trendy beliefs. Any new work colleagues on the scene?

He sounds like he is going through a mid life crisis.
He might be. He would find that insulting. I've wondered about it. I don't know what to do about the possibility but I agree counselling is a good place to explore it.

Does you DH usually stick to things or is he a bit flighty with new hobbies. If it is the latter, why not give it 6 months and see if it is a phase.
He does get obsessive interests, and sticks with them for up to a few years at a time, but never ones that change his whole perspective and lifestyle and relationships. And I don't know what would be left after after a few years of this. Or even whether it's possible for something like this to just be dropped and moved on from without much impact in the way previous interests like card tricks have been.
He got into this stuff in October so it's been 3 months.

It sounds like you've noticed his values no longer align with yours. That is a serious change. Religion isn't the problem- it's that underlying structure of values that needs to align.
Yes, I think that's relevant. Values, and also perspective. It's scaring me. I feel so shaken by it all.

this scenario reminded me of How to be a Good by Nick Hornby, where the main characters husband went from being an angry cynic to this weird spiritual guru wannabe who was writing a book on how to be good (funnily enough) and irritating his wife with his smug new-found enlightenment.
I think I need to read that!

There must be some reason that propelled him into this.
There is, definitely. He didn't feel good about himself at all. He was looking for ways to feel calmer and less negative. He will not consider any alternative paths to peace now because, you see, he has tasted the Truth .

OK, my advice is just be patient with him. He'll come back to who he was
How long does it take? To have him back would be bliss. It would be the best possible thing ever. Ever. But how long would I need to wait? And how do I keep my sanity in the meantime and not let my feelings about his changes destroy everything?

Cherchez la femme
Well, you can never say never, but between work and dc neither of us have the slightest opportunity, particularly with the various drop offs and picks ups. His work is an all male environment. We both have access to one another's phones and email accounts and so on. I don't feel like he's having an affair with another person, I feel like he's having an affair with this new belief system!

it's just reminding me of all the men I know who took up buddhism in middle age. They were all having affairs, it turns out. I guess correlation and causation are not the same.

Oh god, a flashback! My husband meditating for an hour every night = escaping family life!

I don't think that people change their lives so dramatically unless they're very unhappy. Maybe getting to the root of that is the thing?

Do you really want to put your life on hold and wait some indeterminate amount of time for him to lose the rose coloured glasses?

Consider telling him that you are unhappy and either you two go to counseling or else you want a trial separation. At least then he can be smug and idiotic elsewhere.

I can empathise with your situation. My ex turned spiritual and was/is convinced he could heal people. In his case it was the influence of another woman but I can understand when you say he is a stranger. The way he changed was heartbreaking and every now and then I would see glimpses of the man I married. We are divorced and I don't see him now. From the snippets I get from adult children he is still the same. They too struggled with the changes in him.

All I can suggest is to try counselling, If you still love him and want that man back it's worth trying anything to get that. Perhaps you need a time limit though, as you say, you own wellbeing and sanity is important.

Who is this individual he has met, are still in the picture? It will be harder if there is an outside influence albeit man/woman/religion. Best of luck OP X

Do you think he could be unwell?

Some men go through a mid life crisis. It's not the wife's fault or even anything much to do with the wife it's just the way the man expresses his worries about getting older.

Sounds like it could be something similar.

Get to know the person he's becoming. You have 3dc so separating would surely be a very last resort.

I appreciate you don't want to say anything too outing OP but could we have an idea of what this belief system/truth he's apparently discovered actually is? There is so much of this around in the past few years I seriously doubt it will be outing - I can think of plenty of people like this who have become enlightened in the face of science. You only have to browse your old friends on Instagram to see how common it all is. Might help us to judge how long-term it's likely to be. I really feel for you, must feel like waking up in an alternative reality or something equally Charlie Brooker-ish.

I am going to approach this from a different angle. You mention an individual who is influencing your DH with his beliefs. Is this someone online or in real life? Could it be a cult or similar. Your DH sounds like he has converted rather than just a lifestyle change.
I understand how you must be feeling I would be angry and upset myself.

Is your DH seeking the Truth or has he found the Truth? If he has discovered the Truth he is one of the VERY few individuals in this world that has. There are not many truly enlightened beings walking this earth, but there are thousands of pseudo teachers that think they have the Knowledge but it usually ego driven.
Seekers understand the message intellectually, but do not KNOW the space which transcends all. There will be something that is resonating with him and this is what he is following. It is the path.
He might also be going through a period of introspection or self enquiry. This is counter intuitive to what would be termed the "norm." Which may seem like a MLC. As with most MLC's both male and female, the questioning of values and morals cone to the forefront at some stage in life.

Being enlightened should not stop him being part of this world, having a marriage, having kids, having a job, not being vegan, not having the odd glass of wine or being celibate. It is a fallacy perpetuated by those that think they KNOW. If you are enlightened then this world is seen from a different perception. It is known as being in this world, but not of this world, but only by the truly enlightened.
I understand how you are unhappy if his values have changed. What values have changed?
It is not unusual for human constructed concepts to drop away as seekers follow the path. Human constructed concepts like religion, politics, capitalism etc.
If he is forcing this seeking or new way on you then it is most definitely pseudo seeking he is involved in or pseudo teaching he is being taught.
The Truly enlightened do not force this way on anyone only talking about it when asked, because it is believed that everyone is on the path and that at some stage in life they will seek the Truth. The enlightened know they cannot predict the future and live only in the here and now.
If anything he should be showing more love, compassion and empathy.
HTH's

Human constructed concepts like monogamy are often the first to be questioned/abandoned ... funny that