Do you know of any successful models for marriage when 80% of love & respect have gone?

[Nitpickpicnic]

So here’s the thing. We’re not divorcing. We’ve been through eons of couples therapy (yes, great counsellor), and it’s about the only thing we 100% agree on. Perverse, I know.

We have soooo many reasons for sticking with this (financial, parenting, religious, personal principles, you name it.). We don’t judge others for cutting and running (in fact I envy them often!), but it’s not for us.

Now I’m looking for options of practical arrangements where we can live sane, peaceful lives and co-parent without killing each other. We are fortunate that we have another property an hour away from main home (and dd’s primary school). Think working farm. Otherwise we both can work over the internet from home 70% of the time.

Can I ask does anyone know of (or live) alternative marriages that might be of interest in my research? Often Mumsnet seems so black & white in its opinions- it’s Leave The Bastard, start a new life, etc. Well that’s not happening here. So what does everyone else do, when they find they’re not living with the partner they signed on for but need a workable solution that’s not formally splitting up?

Practical deets: I’m 48, he’s 52. 8yo dd. Married 12 years, together 19. He’s not abusive, if anything too passive. DD adores him, and he her. He’s the fun parent, I’m the boring one who packs the right lunch and insists on sunscreen! Some of our marital issues include celibacy (him), born-again Trump/alt right fan (him, previously v left wing like me), anxiety (from birth trauma, diagnosed, me). Me (upper class) him (working class). It was a plus for us when younger, but now lots of issues as we age.

It’s up to me to find a workable life for us, he’ll just go along with it. But both of us would be happier (and better parents) if we could stop pretending the ‘full time nuclear family in the leafy suburbs’ was real and working. It isn’t. I can’t quite believe we’re alone in this, but everyone’s hiding it very well around here if they’re suffering too! I want to live a genuine life, be honest to everyone that we’ve had to make changes, but not divide all our assets (and likely have to pay him ‘alimony’) as well as devastating our girl.

Wow, that’s longer than I planned. But quite therapeutic to write down! Any ideas? It’s so hard to swim against the tide of divorce/recoupling.

I'm not sure what you are asking really. Why can't you just live apart? My parents didn't divorce when they split up (although they did about twenty years later). Your relationship clearly isn't working so what is that you want to do? Stay together and play happy families? I doubt that will work, in the long run. Live apart and share care? That works for lots of people apparently. I'm not really seeing the issue, if you don't want to divorce you don't have to.

I have no idea what you're asking to hear. You want to live a "genuine life" even though you're not happy, and you say you won't get a divorce. What possible advise could anyone give you? You refuse to change or contemplate change. You are resigned to misery.

I don't see the issue if you have 2 houses - just live separate lives, as the upper classes have been doing for years. Not what I would choose in a marriage, but it is your life.

I don't see the point in a 'genuine life' where you are miserable and playing pretend happy families. You have two homes, so split without divorce and live separately, sharing care of your DD. The fact you are at a stage where 'killing each other' is a phrase you use isn't good for your DD, she will pick up on the negative atmosphere. You'd be better splitting properly not trying to find some way to hide that you no longer love one another.

I was sort of on board with the idea of staying with this man and muddling through until "born-again Trump/alt right fan".

Do you really want your DD growing up with that?

Is there the space for you and he to have separate rooms at the main family house? Or the two of you rotating between the houses might work - maybe a week on / week off arrangement so your DD doesn’t have to be uprooted.

What happens in terms of your sexual needs though? When you say you’re not getting divorced, are you both intending to stay “faithful” to the marriage?

What Bezalelle said. I have no sympathy for you. You are motivated by self interest and making religion one of your reasons for lying to yourself, your family and the world gives religion a bad name.

I would live on the farm let your d d spend time with her dad it all sounds miserable you got me with Alt far right I couldn't live with somebody like that.

The ‘alt right’ thing certainly is big for me. The biggest, it turns out. Never saw it coming. I’d prefer cross-dressing, honestly. Less of a deal-breaker turns out.

But if we formally separate, I’m afraid he’ll tap further into that world and follow the advice of the menz. Then my DD has heaps of solo time contact visits with him. At least now, I can provide an alternate view when I’m with both of them (gently), and they both listen (really he does). Also the menz movement is big on ‘take DW for all you can’, which is a lot, and my dd’s future.

And (to a couple of previous posters), why assume religion is a factor for ME in this scenario? I’m a card-carrying happy atheist. My dd, and her extended family (both sides) are religious and that is relevant to her schooling, friends group and happiness.

In terms of my sexual happiness (in response to another poster), it’s certainly tricky. My DH won’t come to that particular party. Says a lot of promising things in front of the therapist, but 9 years of NOTHING tells me different. My guess is some kind of Madonna/whore complex going on deep down. Now that I’ve had his kid I’m stuck in the wrong (for me) category.

Whether I’d ever ‘indulge in arrangements’ is very dubious. Have I desperately wanted to? Yes. Do I think I could still ‘pull’? Yes. But I had a dad who was a player (probably got my high libido from him!). The difference between him and me is that I can keep it in my pants. Forever if that’s what it takes. Again, not judging those women who make the jump. A bit envious. First time in history where women (if only in our culture) can do it relatively judgement-free!

Again, responding, I’m aware I own two houses. But I’m asking for advice beyond simple maths. Move dd across the rural/city divide weekly? Really? I mean obviously there’s a splitting of time, but I’m asking for models for doing that? Concrete examples people may have (or have heard of) of how that can work? Through primary school and beyond. Perhaps I could have worded my title better.

Sometimes, family problems are subtle and complex and not immediately dramatic and eye-rolling. But it’s still my life, and real for the people in it.

You need to stop therapy what good is it doing apart from being indulgent and a bit of ego stroking for him if you need therapy go on your own. He sounds unhinged does he rant and go into speeches about his views that is affecting your Dd anyway. If you want to stay in this marraige you are going to have to disengage and just parent your Dd and be 2 people who live in the same house.

By staying with him you're validating your husband's views to your daughter. You may say the right things but she will see that you still stayed with him and therefore accepted it.

I'm your age and split with the father of my children. We're still in the same house but as soon as the house sale goes through we'll be in separate houses. Even though it's unpleasant living together, I have myself back. The kids have a reasonable voice and my children can see that I didn't find his views or behaviour acceptable and I've done something about it. My girls will hopefully not choose someone like that to be with and my son won't replicate his behaviour. They're so excited about moving. I'm in a new relationship too and it is an eye opener to be with someone like my new boyfriend. Such a contrast to my ex. Respectful, appreciative, hard working, willing to do more than his fair share of drudge work. Views on the world and parenting align etc. But even if it doesn't work out, I am so much happier not shackled to that toxic man and having to pretend.

OP I think it’s very hard to stay in a marriage with a celibate partner.
It’s not fair and I think he needs to work on that to keep his family.
It’s obviously not something that you’ve chosen as well and it’s been going on for 9 years!
What’s behind that, porn addiction? Attraction to someone else?

Obviously it's your life your choice but 2 factors strike me.. the old death bed scenario .. would you regret not having a fun love filled marriage being desired & truly loved? Especially once your dd flies the nest , how lonely will your life be?
& what would you want your dd to say about her home life as a child?.. I have no concept of a happy loving relationship because my parents weren't like that, I never saw them be tactile or affectionate with each other or heard them tell each other they love each other.. the atmosphere was so tense & icy it has effected how I behave in a relationship??

Life's too short to just exist until you die!!

You are fortunate to be able to have a bolt hole to retreat to. Be honest with your DD and explain that you are staying a family but that you and H don't love one another but you are going to still live together or between the two houses and her life will remain the same. Officially set up separate bedrooms and work out so that you each have a couple of days break away at the other house during the week or at weekends when you need it. If you socialise separately it will be fairly easy to have enough space to make it work. You also need to have a chat with him about how separate your lives are to be ie are you both free to meet other people and have discreet relationships provided they don't impinge on your everyday lives. No reason why you can't be good coparents in the circumstances. Would be worth visiting a solicitor to sort out finances and enter into an agreement as to asset split/future earnings/and do Wills.

So the two of you between you are going to teach your DD that a loveless marriage will become her norm too. Would you want her to have a marriage or relationship like yours?. Why is this still good enough for you?.

Is that really what you both want to teach her about relationships, what do you think she is learning here from you two?. Its all very well citing lofty concerns and principles but neither of you are really thinking about your DD here, only your own selves along with self interest at staying together but apart. What you and he propose is really not a workable solution at all and you are also validating his views to your DD.

I would also argue it would not devastate your DD at all if you two were to legally separate.

Take the time to think about how to sort assets in case you do divorce

Just continue as per usual. What other solution is there? Maybe a bedroom each? Plenty of people follow this model (arranged marriages, traditional upper class marriages) where it is a business/financial transaction. Affairs help in that case

I left. We 'nest'

I could have the wrong end of the stick but part of your post indicates that you don't want to separate as then your DD would spend time on her own, with her father, potentially being brainwashed into believing or following some opinions that you don't agree with?

If that's the case it sounds very controlling of you. Your daughter will mix with lots of people as she matures, will probably hold lots of beliefs and principals which are polar opposite to yours - you can't control this! Its part of growing up.

you don't want a divorce because you would have to pay him 'your' money. Understandable but what if the shoe was on the other foot? Would you still not want a divorce?

As far as how to cope now - separate bedrooms a must. It seems to be more common than it used to be ! Live like house mates rather than a couple. Have house rules. Maybe that would work?

Have you been able to have a calm candid conversation with him about the 'alt-right' stuff? Seems as if that is the on issue that really has you the most worked up, other than the celibacy.

The last six years of my marriage (including the weird politics thing, though not alt-right ugh), until youngest DC was 19, was like this. He lived in our flat during the week, I stayed here in the house where the DC school is. At weekends he would come back and we would just try not to be in the same room, or I would go off for the weekend. In many ways it worked reasonably well, but very much a half life. And the DC have since said they don't know why we bothered. Not sure I would recommend it, but with space and good manners it can work for a time.

Have you mentioned this to your therapist? If so what do they suggest?
I couldn't live like this, id rather pay him off, at least you won't end up peniless.
The only people I know who lived like this are now deceased. It was a long time ago when attitudes were very different.
I have to say they lived as ships that pass in the night. They shared nothing. Both males in the relationship had affairs openly.
Unfortunately the children took sides.

I think having separate bedrooms is essential. Preferably living in different houses and seeing dd separately.

I know of a few dcs that spend their weeks divided between their parents a week at a time. Its a shame no one like that had been on here to help you instead of judging. In yr situ I would sell the second property and buy one thats near to where you are now for practical reasons for dcs school. Then a week at a time in each. Or ds weekends with dh. Problem solved. You part on good terms and yr ds doesnt have too much upheavsl logistically. You get the chance to meet someone more compatible and so does he. Otherwise could you split the house in two? The people I know who have taken the first option have actually split up. The other option is an open marriage but thats a whole another ball game obviously and a whole lot of issues.

Tbh i think your just avoiding the inevitable! Your either together or your not, anything in between just blurs the lines and i would worry that the situation could get a lot worse between you both and in tern you child.

I have 2 young children their father has some very odd and potentially damaging views. I worry hugely about his influence on the children, but i try and balance his views by surrounding my children with positive roll models and people who dont behaviour like him! I also believe that i am sending a positive message that i dont agree with his behaviour by not being with him.
Just be careful that in the vain of trying to protect your child it doesn't actually cause her/him more damage. PS thats not me being judgemental just practical after going through a divorce myself with young children. xx Good luck

My ex has religious and political views that I do not like or agree with. However I have enough confidence in DS's intelligence and my influence in his life that I certainly don't stop contact for that reason.
How about you rent a smaller property nearby for him to move into and you both see DD several days per week?

DD stays in the house nearest school and you and dp alternate staying at the house and farm. Separate bedrooms in each.