Gaslighting- am I wrong?

[Kismetjayn]

I've posted here about him. One of the behaviours I noticed a while ago was telling small lies, all the time, to make me in the wrong and him not.

It culminated on Friday. On Thursday I was playing a video game with him. He was very far ahead and I mentioned ah, well you have played this game far more than me, I still can't even get to grips with X and Y controls, and look how far ahead you are. He insisted we had played the game the same amount. I knew we hadn't. It was a sequel, and I hadn't played the first 5 editions, and he used to play with his brothers in addition to games regularly, whereas the last time I played was 4 years ago on mat leave. Yet he insisted he didn't have an advantage and I'd played the game just as much. I felt unsettled wondering how I had played it that much.

I brought it up the next day when we watched a show that referenced v1 of this game and he reminisced. I said but you said yesterday you hadn't played it, you hadn't played it more than me. He admitted that was a lie. I said that was gaslighting (we had discussed the word's origins not long ago). He agreed, sounded a bit worried, said he would try to stop. Okay- I'd be more horrified if someone said I was abusing them and 'try' wouldn't be my word but fine.

Today I was stressed, complained. I was snappier than I should have been when he started being defensive. He also said his lying wasn't that bad and I was exaggerating. I tried to stay rational but probably was ruder than I meant to be. I don't even know how we got to this point but two hours later and he's told me that I've become too big for my boots since studying for uni and all our friends think I'm rude and arrogant.

I'm in floods of tears. Maybe I have been too rude and arrogant, I feel like I can't mention doing well really because I'm scared of bragging but maybe I have been, one friend has definitely not been in contact as much lately. But then he said gently 'its alright, now it's out in the open we can deal with it' and that he didn't want to tell me they had said that to protect me because apparently they said it months ago... Apparently they asked him if there was something wrong with our relationship because I was so rude to him too and I probably was because I've felt down for so long about how disrespectful he is and now since studying have the self esteem not to put up with it. But maybe that's just coming across as rude?

Help, I have no idea and I feel like it's all too much hard work.

You know he's gaslighting you. He still is.

A good relationship shouldn't feel like hard work. Ltb, enjoy your new university life (is he jealous at all of that? Thinks you'll leave him when you're "better" than him?) and don't let him drag you down.

No, you're right. That is gas-lighting.

Step back from this OP for a mo. You only know what was said by this long standing friend because of what he told you? What evidence do you have that the friend did actually say that as in, have you spoken directly to them and asked them? That is your first port of call in your need for answers. Beware that they may not give truthful answers but that you have to judge based on what you know about their character.

The second is that as @Haggis has said, it is absolutely gaslighting and you caught him on this. Now OP, you have in effect caught the end of a dropped stitch in a piece of knitting. You are beginning to pull on this. Your DP? DH? is now looking to 'shore up' his own position'. Which he will do and very effectively if you don't sidestep the manipulation.

This will be coming as an almighty shock to you because you are teetering on the edge of the hole. Red pill or blue pill?

@Haggis is right, it is a LTB but only you can come to that conclusion yourself otherwise you will be open to further manips.

Ignore the cod 'concern'. Treat it with the contempt it deserves. An ethically sound partner would not do this to another.

So sorry

@renarde you have absolutely summed up how it feels, like teetering on the edge. I've been planning on leaving since he walked out on us a month ago after I was snappy about something. Apparently this is the reason, it's because I'm rude.

I think I have been ruder but I think being rude and being manipulative and abusive are very different things and I've explained how much stress I am under and how he can help so many times and he hasn't done it. I gave him an ultimatum that he didn't stick to so was planning on LTB later this year (sorting out money & uni place first).

It's just amazing how he can get in my head. DP not DH thankfully in terms of finances etc. Maybe I am being too rude? I'm going to be on edge about it for ages. The friends are mutual so it is possible they would say something to him and not me and I can't check as it was the middle of the night but I know the friend who hasn't been in touch has a lot on her plate. Maybe it's that, maybe I really am being arrogant? I don't think she would tell me even if she did think I was being rude tbh- but maybe that's why he chose that friend to lay the blame at, as he knows I couldn't trust her denial whereas one of my more bolshy friends would tell me to stop going on if I was.

He doesn't want me to go to uni but can't explain why or give any alternatives.

It's all such a massive headfuck.

Headfuck is absolutely right. He calls you rude because you are "arrogant"/"ill-mannered" enough to notice his lies (however small) and call him on them, and he doesn't like that you are standing up for yourself. Don't let him.undermine you.

I said "ltb", but I know it's not always as easy as that. Glad you're making plans though. :)

I think I have been ruder but I think being rude and being manipulative and abusive are very different things and I've explained how much stress I am under and how he can help so many times and he hasn't done it.

This is key to how you are being manipulated. He is drawing on your own sense of guilt because of your own self-confessed behaviours.

All of your behaviours are entirely understandable in human terms with respect to how you have and are being treated. These behaviours are also adding fuel to the smear campaign against you which is now underway.

So you asked a reasonable thing; how can he help me? And he's not. Quelle suprise.

Every time OP, you reasonably ask for what you are entitled to, he refuses to engage. That then provides him with more fuel AND now he has information on how it makes you feel. So he will keep on doing it again and again and again until you are driven half mad with despair.

The only way is to understand and recognise who and what you are dealing with.

He doesn't want me to go to uni but can't explain why or give any alternatives.

This statement is also key. Fact is; he's not aware of his actions. When placed in that kind of situation, he does not know how to react. He just doesn't. I'm guessing he has a kind of vague, 'blank' look on his face? This is because he literally doesn't know what face to provide.

The reason he doesn't is that he has no affective empathy and therefore the safest option is that he doesn't react at all. Seen this a gajillion times with an ex.

Females do it differently and are far better skilled at this than males of their same school. Probably for no other reason that they hung out with more females than males during their formative years and have had many chances to perfect the art of 'mirroring'.

I think with the video game instant it's really not that big of a deal, he probably just didnt want ot admit that his advantage wasn't earned, people can get weirdly competive over video games and the likes, if that was me I would have just laughed at his immaturity. However if this behaviour is spilling into other aspects of your life to the point where its affecting your mental health then it is NOT ok. This comes from a place of control, he's trying to put you down as he doesn't want you to succeed. This is a clear sign of a very insecure man, a loving partner would be happy and encourgaing of thier partners hopes and dreams not trying to 'put them in thier place. And to be honest if my friends were calling my partner rude and arrogant they wouldn't be my friends anymore, there is this thing called BOUNDRIES and they and your partner clealry don't respect that, what kind of man allows his friends to say that and just keeps quiet about it? This man doesn't seem good for you and clearly doesn't have your best intrests at heart, I'm not saying LTB immediatley but maybe just take some time apart to see how you really feel, you'd be surprised at how refreshing and enlighting even a couple of weeks without anyone knocking you back can be.

@Bubs that's what I was trying to explain to him when he was saying it's not like he tells big lies. If it was part of a bigger picture of an honest, sincere person who got competitive over video games I'd probably roll my eyes and not play with him. He lies all the time- he's home late because of the trains, when yes the first was cancelled but the next 2 or 3 were fine but he was in the pub. He would tell me he forgot to bring an item I asked for because I asked when he'd already left- but how could that be true when he was driving and I spoke to him about it in the house? At least once a week there will be an unnecessary lie to get him out of doing something not even majorly wrong, something dealt with by 'oh sorry I forgot'. It's not a person who is generally fine, it's someone who cannot accept responsibility.

@renarde yes! That's right! He doesn't go blank, he gets this really petulant look on his face like a sulky toddler. Even our 3 year old DD doesn't do that since she grew out of tantrums. He screws up his mouth and you can see the cogs working while he tries to figure out something to say and as he can't justify his behaviour any more, it becomes an attack on me.

In fact that's blown my mind a bit. I knew he had that habit- that he would defend himself in every action without stopping to contemplate if he was at fault- and at some point even if I had come to him with a mild complaint it would turn into me justifying myself or being attacked- but yeah it's when he screws up his mouth and changes argumentative direction, he's run out of excuses and can't explain why he's in the right so I have to be in the wrong.

God, reading back I come across as hysterical as I felt, all those 'and's.

I feel more able to take a breath but also more unsafe now, I know he wouldn't do anything physical but it feels scary to know someone (whether calculatedly or not) is launching an attack on your mental health and grip on reality. Especially as he knows that's exactly what my childhood was like. It's scary that he would take my reasonable complaint and two hours later he would be comforting me with my self esteem in tatters and my mind completely all over the place.

CAB appointment this week, possibly a firm uni choice in exactly 1 week if I get the offer. He won't get much custody as part of my ultimatum was that he had to drop off & pick up DD reliably one or two days a week depending on my schedule and he didn't. Somehow we'll LTB!

Sorry but this sounds like a seriously unhealthy relationship.

he's told me that I've become too big for my boots since studying for uni and all our friends think I'm rude and arrogant.

Great posts from renarde.

This is a classic abusive gambit.

My ex did this. 'No one likes you'. 'We don't want your [x]'.

It was all to shore up his own desperately low self esteem. He had to bring me down to make himself feel better.

I'd be rude to him as well - he's a bastard.

Please don't waste any more of your time with anyone who thinks going to uni is "getting too big for your boots". I've seen this attitude before and it doesn't get better with time - he'll be one of those people who thinks you're getting above yourself by daring to have an ambition and he'll never be supportive.

Renarde and Coolhwip are right. Telling you that your friends all agree with his low opinion of you is a classic bullying manipulation. Bet he's lying. Well, we already know he's a liar.

I wouldn't be surprised if your friends are actually delighted when you end this relationship.

He sounds controlling. He's jealous of your university education and needs to put you down so you don't get "too big for your boots" (just to clear, that's how he sees it, not how I do).

The relationship is wrong for you and probably for him. The gaming thing shoulds like competitive bullshit, making him an arse. Telling you your friends don't like you anymore is silly and childish and is really an expression of what he thinks . He will have bitched about you to them and taken silence as agreement . Making him more of an arse. He doesn't support your ambitions. A complete arse.

Trying to pathologise his behaviour and treatment of you is pointless, same applies to your response. Why position yourself as a victim. Just say you don't like his behaviour and want better. Assert yourself and set your boundaries.

Just end it

Lemontt - its called gas-lighting. It's not something that's not working for him! He's actively employing tactics against OP to denegrate her to her friends/others.

Yes, that does make her his victim of this. She can make her own mind up about how to manage that for herself.

I think I'm a very easy victim because all this was so normal to me, I was abused all my childhood and started dating him when I was 16. I've had a bit of a misery memoir life, lol.

I think he is jealous and I feel so sorry for him because his work life is shit too but he doesn't have the motivation I have to make it better. He'd rather bitch about it than fix it. I am fixing my shitty situation so now he is feeling worse in comparison. He used to blame me for why he wasn't as successful. Now he has nothing left to blame he makes things up or tries to stop me doing things because it will be showing him up. His work do put pressure on him not to leave on time to drop off/pick up DD but I feel like if he had at least done everything the best he could first, when I asked him to, they would be more amenable to discussion. Now he's on a disciplinary for lateness so he has no case to request leniency around compulsory overtime. A little hard work at first would have put both of us in a more comfortable position.

He is now trying but it feels like even if he changed character completely it would be too late, I've had to push him just to act like a decent person. I rang a local domestic abuse charity today after I couldn't get through to women's aid and they were so fantastic- I put the phone down feeling validated and excited for the future. I hope he does change for the sake of any future girlfriends and his own mental well-being.

I just can't put up with it any more. His verbal aggression, put downs, lies, and then comforting me when I'm upset about it, making it my fault, coercing my behaviour in response (we can work on your rudeness together). He was rude to DD on Christmas day ffs.

His parents aren't great and I feel guilty that I'll be forcing him to move back in with them but I have nowhere else to go. He was given so many opportunities to make this right, I even gave him a bullet point list of 3 very basic things I wanted him to do. Even if he does them now it's just too late for me to love him again.

My immediate thoughts are that your friends have said no such thing. He’s banking on you not going back to them to challenge due to embarrassment or humiliation or whatever
This is gas lighting pure and simple. He’s abusive

CAB were okay. The adviser just said I need to make sure he feels heard during separation/mediation as it sounds like he's feeling hurt & sidelined :(

I feel really guilty now. Maybe I should try harder before mediation, it would be so upsetting to DD if we did split up. It was useful to know I would get legal aid though.

Well done for at last putting yourself above this kind of treatment and having the strength to take those steps to change your life, which is particularly hard to do after having been subjected to so much.

All I would add, is to try harden yourself to any feelings of sorrow/guilt for him and his life. He has brought this on himself...you would far rather he just stopped abusing you!

Good luck for 2019 and your whole future!

OP my exh was just like this when I went to uni. He’d Say, ’so and so says you’ve become like x lately’ or ’people think you’ve become a right y since you started that bloody course.’ He never had a good word to say, constantly slagged off my friends and he never took the slightest interest in my studies or encouraged me in any way. One day I went nuclear on him and he admitted that he didn’t want me to go to uni because he thought I’d get ideas and leave him. Well I did, as it happens. Since I’ve got out I’ve realised what a weak minded controlling piece of shit he is.

Have you considered the possibility that your friends are being distant because of him? I’d put good money on that being the case.

LTB He’ll only hold you back and destroy your mental health and self esteem. In 5 years time you’ll be miserable and full of regrets if you don’t. You can do much better than him and you deserve better. When you do get out, if you choose to, the scales will fall from your eyes. It’ll be a hard realisation at first but gradually all his manipulative bullshit will bounce right off you, and if you ever encounter the like again it’ll stick out like a sore thumb. University will not be the only education you get, I promise.

Met his type before OP. They're the sort who can't cope with a partner's success in any shape or form, be it doing a degree, winning at something, being popular and well liked, they immediately bring you down, delight in upsetting you and tell massive lies about how others think about you.
Basically, he's a loser.
Don't waste your time.
Invest in some much needed self help style reading material that will help to explain why you ended up with this type of emotional vampire.
Or get some counselling.
Or both...

Yes. You're right. I am in therapy and I know it has been holding me back, when my therapist would prompt me to recognise the more insidious abuse from my past I wouldn't notice until she pointed it out and explained it was abusive because it was still happening. It's like I can see both sides, I just have to go through with this.

@smotheroffive that is a really good point! If this is the only way I can get him to stop, I have to do it. I can't make him treat me with respect but I can't tolerate the disrespect. How the disrespect ends is his decision and he's chosen for me to have to end things rather than just being a decent human being.

@Badstyley I'm glad you got out and I'm so glad it showed you how much better off without him you are.

Five years time, I want to be happy. Proud and competent. I will have graduated! I'll be working towards a doctorate (my ultimate goal), earning on the side through uni or tutoring or whatever else comes along. It sounds freeing.

You will be removing yourself, so sad that this is the only way to make it stop, buy be prepared that he might still not stop, and in fact make things worse, when he realises his control of you has slipped.

Make your plans quietly and avoid confrontation with him.

Do you have to go, or does he?

You sound fab. Make sure you go to uni. He hates the idea of you doing this.

Especially as he knows that's exactly what my childhood was like.
That's what he's latched onto, as a way in for him to manipulate you. You don't need his crap.
Doing your uni course and improving your life will all go so much better without him dragging you down.